Simple fact - the PAP doesn't trust Malays. So, all the sinkapore identity stuff is bs after all. And we expect Malays to think like sinkees when we don't trust them to be one?
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Is it true that SAF Armour no malays?
- Thread starter tookara
- Start date
Simple fact - the PAP doesn't trust Malays. So, all the sinkapore identity stuff is bs after all. And we expect Malays to think like sinkees when we don't trust them to be one?
Trust needs to be earned. Malays ought to and should think like sinkies even more so than other ethnic groups. How else are they going to prove their trustworthiness?
In your opinion, Malays can't be trusted ...they are Malays first and thus loyal to Malaysia. In what ways have Malays shown that they are working against sinkapore?
An excerpt from the wikipedia article ... Many men deemed proficient enough in the Japanese language were approached, or sometimes ordered, to join the Military Intelligence Service (MIS) to serve as translators/interpreters and spies in the Pacific, as well as in the China Burma India Theater. These men were sent to the MIS Language School at Camp Savage, Minnesota to develop their language skills and receive training in military intelligence.
On your 2nd point of local Malays going to neighbouring countries for business opportunities, I think all Singaporeans do so no harm in that isn't there??
Let's not kid ourselves that ppl of a different nationality might be closer due to shared religious beliefs and kin - I think not, I know of many SG Malay Muslims who do not share such sentiments, many here do not condone the acts of Osama Bin Laden and his lot...and many supported for the Lions Team in all their matches..
The govt is taking a safe approach to prevent sensitive info from being leaked over should a malay be in such sensitive unit. The govt would rather do away with political correctness than risk national security. -- Then why deploy them in ISD and SID?? As GD aptly put it, is Armour such a sensitive unit rather than these two Depts tasked with handling state security...???
My apologies, I fail to follow your logic...
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yes..a good many are in ISD... many in Senior ranks too, SID a few ....
It isn't my opinion but i am looking from the perspective of the sg govt. I am sure they have researched on this extensively. Take note that the pap govt actually supports the malays more so than the chinese in some ways. I can honestly tell you i wouldn't know if the malays are working against singapore since i'm not in some army intelligence network or some spy. I could also ask you in what way have malays shown that they will be siding singapore if there is a war with malaysia or indonesia?
I think there is a really good reason that malays aren't in some army units. It's not so straightforward and should not be looked at such a careless manner. ISD has lots of confidental information and top secret stuff going on and they allow malays inside.
There was the Indonesian Confrontation, both Singapore and Malaysia were attacked by Indonesia by armed aggression.Funny, I don't recall the Malay Muslims serving in the Police or Army of Malaysia or Singapore taking sides with the Indonesians then??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia–Malaysia_confrontation
Well indonesia is considered foreign but not malaysia if you get my drift. During those times these were new countries. East malaysia actually wanted to gain independence and not be a part of malaysia. There was no concept of nationalism since these were newly indpendent nations, what this means is that citizens on either side of each country probably didn't have the concept of being loyal to their newly formed country. You have to remember that singapore used to be a part of malaysia too before being kicked out and singapore malays are much closer to malaysian malays compared to indonesians since indonesian is actually a different language altogether.
Look at it from this angle. Singapore is in the middle of the malay archeipelago. Suffice to say the native people of the region would be similar in culture, appearance and religion. Now you do know that the majority of singaporeans aren't native and a significant portion isn't native too like the indians and eurasians. The malay singaporeans on the other hand are almost exactly like the malaysian malays so once this is established obviously it is now clearer to see why they aren't allowed to be in sensitive units.
Suppose singapore is like brunei. Independent nation but the majority are now malays, indons and muslims. Now in this case there wouldn't be any discrimation of the malays in sensitive units even though singapore is a seperate nation from malaysia.
The Confrontation occured as a result of trumped up nationalism..
Many Malaysian and SG Malays can actually trace their roots to Indonesia..in fact natives of Malaysia are the Orang Asli...
Look at it from this angle. Singapore is in the middle of the malay archeipelago. Suffice to say the native people of the region would be similar in culture, appearance and religion. Now you do know that the majority of singaporeans aren't native and a significant portion isn't native too like the indians and eurasians. The malay singaporeans on the other hand are almost exactly like the malaysian malays so once this is established obviously it is now clearer to see why they aren't allowed to be in sensitive units. --- again, my apologies as I fail to see the logic here as GoldenDragon and likewise myself have knowledge and mentioned that there are Malay Muslims serving in Depts handling State Security like ISD and SID...also how are Malay Singaporeans similar to Malaysian Malays ?? Just cause they speak Malay and a good majority happen to be Muslims ? Those are cultural and religious similarities but not intellectual similarities.. By that logic, one can also conclude that SG Chinese are also similar to Mainland Chinese and deemed them as Communists ??
Suppose singapore is like brunei. Independent nation but the majority are now malays, indons and muslims. Now in this case there wouldn't be any discrimation of malays in sensitive units even though singapore is a seperate nation from malaysia. -- again I fail to see the logic as it has been established there are many non-malay and non-muslims serving in what will be deemed in Singapore as "sensitive units" of malaysia's security forces...
finally, as i mentioned before, this issue is now a non-starter for the SG Malays as most have come to accept this unwritten fact. in fact most i spoke to, happy with sociopolitical engineered arrangement of PAP Govt, cos at least they know in times of war, others will be fighting for them. nowadays they more interested in looking out for goodies like baby Bonus, GST offset package and how much grant and freebies the PAP Govt is willing to dish out for their vote...
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I would appreciate it if you quoted my posts or at least highlight them if you are going to reply to them pt by pt. This shows laziness on your part or a lack of manners.
Many Malaysian and SG Malays can actually trace their roots to Indonesia..in fact natives of Malaysia are the Orang Asli...
yes i heard that the malays actually originated from sumatra but bahasa melayu is a seperate language from bahasa indonesia. Needless to say indonesia is seen as foreign compared to singapore and malaysia.
again, my apologies as I fail to see the logic here as GoldenDragon and likewise myself have knowledge and mentioned that there are Malay Muslims serving in Depts handling State Security like ISD and SID...also how are Malay Singaporeans similar to Malaysian Malays ?? Just cause they speak Malay and happen to be Muslims ? Those are cultural similarities but not intellectual similarities.. By that logic, one can also conclude that SG Chinese are also similar to Mainland Chinese and deemed them as Communists ??
I thought you could figure this out yourself. The majority of singaporeans aren't from the region. They are different in terms of culture, appearance, language, religion etc. Their next door neighbour's majority happens to be the same race, religion, culture as singapore's minority. Notwithstanding the fact that singapore was unceremoniously kicked out from malaysia. Needless to say there must have been great consideration and great caution applied if these types of minorities are going to be posted to sensitive army units. Nothing to do with being intellectual. If you want to talk about communism do you know why natha and the chinese language schools were close down last time? They were activities for communists or suspected to be so. Do you feel indignant for them? After all such a connection was made by LKY and that's it bye bye chinese language schools. It's human nature to side with ppl from your own race wouldn't you say? Especially since the majority in this region aren't really that similar compared to the indons and dayaks etc. Have you forgotten about the circumstances that brought the extistence and the independence of singapore? The fact that singapore can still be used as a boogeyman to drum up nationalistic fervour. The fact that malays are in general more united. The fact that muslims tend to side with one another putting aside other differences. The fact that there have been radicalised local malays before.
Let me draw up this alternate scenerio for you. There's this island near taiwan and china. Since it is near china there are chinese people living on it but they are a minority. The majority of citizens on this island near to china are people from a region far away say central asia. Anyway skip all the bullshit but this island used to be a part of china but was kicked out from china so needless to say there is some bad blood between china and this island. The chinese citizens of that island aren't chinese nationals nor are they taiwanese citizens but citizens of that island. Since said island is so close to china and taiwan or surrounded in chinese territory the govt of the island decides not to let the chinese citizens of his island into sensitive military units. Without any biasness on your part would you think this is acceptable? Makes sense to me actually. Usually when i draw up a scenerio like this ppl think critically and do not get emotionally involved unlike the singapore issue.
At the end of the day it's all just conjuncture. I have stated my reasons as to why malays aren't allowed and they seem logical and sensible enough. You're coming along the lines of the sg govt is just simply racist or taking it out on the malays for singapore being kicked out of malaysia something like a vendetta old fart has with malaysia and he's using the malays as his punching bag to exact petty revenge. Actually sounds rather silly to me let's hope you don't think this way. Unless you have connections in the upper echleons or the inner circle of the govt who actually knows the precise reason why.
Many Malaysian and SG Malays can actually trace their roots to Indonesia..in fact natives of Malaysia are the Orang Asli...
yes i heard that the malays actually originated from sumatra but bahasa melayu is a seperate language from bahasa indonesia. Needless to say indonesia is seen as foreign compared to singapore and malaysia.
again, my apologies as I fail to see the logic here as GoldenDragon and likewise myself have knowledge and mentioned that there are Malay Muslims serving in Depts handling State Security like ISD and SID...also how are Malay Singaporeans similar to Malaysian Malays ?? Just cause they speak Malay and happen to be Muslims ? Those are cultural similarities but not intellectual similarities.. By that logic, one can also conclude that SG Chinese are also similar to Mainland Chinese and deemed them as Communists ??
I thought you could figure this out yourself. The majority of singaporeans aren't from the region. They are different in terms of culture, appearance, language, religion etc. Their next door neighbour's majority happens to be the same race, religion, culture as singapore's minority. Notwithstanding the fact that singapore was unceremoniously kicked out from malaysia. Needless to say there must have been great consideration and great caution applied if these types of minorities are going to be posted to sensitive army units. Nothing to do with being intellectual. If you want to talk about communism do you know why natha and the chinese language schools were close down last time? They were activities for communists or suspected to be so. Do you feel indignant for them? After all such a connection was made by LKY and that's it bye bye chinese language schools. It's human nature to side with ppl from your own race wouldn't you say? Especially since the majority in this region aren't really that similar compared to the indons and dayaks etc. Have you forgotten about the circumstances that brought the extistence and the independence of singapore? The fact that singapore can still be used as a boogeyman to drum up nationalistic fervour. The fact that malays are in general more united. The fact that muslims tend to side with one another putting aside other differences. The fact that there have been radicalised local malays before.
Let me draw up this alternate scenerio for you. There's this island near taiwan and china. Since it is near china there are chinese people living on it but they are a minority. The majority of citizens on this island near to china are people from a region far away say central asia. Anyway skip all the bullshit but this island used to be a part of china but was kicked out from china so needless to say there is some bad blood between china and this island. The chinese citizens of that island aren't chinese nationals nor are they taiwanese citizens but citizens of that island. Since said island is so close to china and taiwan or surrounded in chinese territory the govt of the island decides not to let the chinese citizens of his island into sensitive military units. Without any biasness on your part would you think this is acceptable? Makes sense to me actually. Usually when i draw up a scenerio like this ppl think critically and do not get emotionally involved unlike the singapore issue.
At the end of the day it's all just conjuncture. I have stated my reasons as to why malays aren't allowed and they seem logical and sensible enough. You're coming along the lines of the sg govt is just simply racist or taking it out on the malays for singapore being kicked out of malaysia something like a vendetta old fart has with malaysia and he's using the malays as his punching bag to exact petty revenge. Actually sounds rather silly to me let's hope you don't think this way. Unless you have connections in the upper echleons or the inner circle of the govt who actually knows the precise reason why.
yes i heard that the malays actually originated from sumatra but bahasa melayu is a seperate language from bahasa indonesia. Needless to say indonesia is seen as foreign compared to singapore and malaysia.
Indonesia is foreign as compared to Singapore and Malaysia ?? Again fail to see logic, as I need my SG passport to go into Malaysia
I thought you could figure this out yourself. The majority of singaporeans aren't from the region. They are different in terms of culture, appearance, language, religion etc. Their next door neighbour's majority happens to be the same race, religion, culture as singapore's minority. Notwithstanding the fact that singapore was unceremoniously kicked out from malaysia. Needless to say there must have been great consideration and great caution applied if these types of minorities are going to be posted to sensitive army units. Nothing to do with being intellectual. If you want to talk about communism do you know why natha and the chinese language schools were close down last time? They were activities for communists or suspected to be so. Do you feel indignant for them? After all such a connection was made by LKY and that's it bye bye chinese language schools. (yes, then he backtracked and made compromise for SAP schools) It's human nature to side with ppl from your own race wouldn't you say? ( am sorry, me and many other Singaporeans don't feel that way) Especially since the majority in this region aren't really that similar compared to the indons and dayaks etc. Have you forgotten about the circumstances that brought the extistence and the independence of singapore? The fact that singapore can still be used as a boogeyman to drum up nationalistic fervour. The fact that malays are in general more united. (really then what do you call the incident like the Confrontation then?? ) The fact that muslims tend to side with one another putting aside other differences. The fact that there have been radicalised local malays before. (Yes, here's a fun fact for you, If I recall, in 2009 Muslim Malaysia captured escaped limping terrorist JI mastermind Mas Selamat Kastari )
Let me draw up this alternate scenerio for you. There's this island near taiwan and china. Since it is near china there are chinese people living on it but they are a minority. The majority of citizens on this island near to china are people from a region far away say central asia. Anyway skip all the bullshit but this island used to be a part of china but was kicked out from china so needless to say there is some bad blood between china and this island. The chinese citizens of that island aren't chinese nationals nor are they taiwanese citizens but citizens of that island. Since said island is so close to china and taiwan or surrounded in chinese territory the govt of the island decides not to let the chinese citizens of his island into sensitive military units. Without any biasness on your part would you think this is acceptable? Makes sense to me actually. Usually when i draw up a scenerio like this ppl think critically and do not get emotionally involved unlike the singapore issue. (again I FAIL to see THE logic, but thanks for taking time to explain YOUR logic)
At the end of the day it's all just conjuncture. (aptly put) I have stated my reasons as to why malays aren't allowed and they seem logical and sensible enough. (LOGICAL for YOU I cannot say for myself or some others) You're coming along the lines of the sg govt is just simply racist or taking it out on the malays for singapore being kicked out of malaysia something like a vendetta old fart has with malaysia and he's using the malays as his punching bag to exact petty revenge. (Is not this conjecture?? Also where in my responses have I even mentioned an Old Fart..By the way who is OLD FART ?? please be specific ) Actually sounds rather silly to me let's hope you don't think this way. (nope never believe in conspiracy or ufo theories) Unless you have connections in the upper echleons or the inner circle of the govt who actually knows the precise reason why. (nope like you am just ordinary Singaporean and even if I do or say work in some clandestine govt organisation, will be foolish of me to expose myself)
Finally as I mentioned before, this issue is a non -starter for most SG Malays nowadays.. as i said most are happy with sociopolitical engineered arrangement of PAP Govt, cos at least they know in times of war, others like yourself, who probably served in a "sensitive" SAF unit will be fighting for them. nowadays they more interested in looking out for goodies like baby Bonus, GST offset package and how much grant and freebies the PAP Govt is willing to dish out for their vote...
Indonesia is foreign as compared to Singapore and Malaysia ?? Again fail to see logic, as I need my SG passport to go into Malaysia
I thought you could figure this out yourself. The majority of singaporeans aren't from the region. They are different in terms of culture, appearance, language, religion etc. Their next door neighbour's majority happens to be the same race, religion, culture as singapore's minority. Notwithstanding the fact that singapore was unceremoniously kicked out from malaysia. Needless to say there must have been great consideration and great caution applied if these types of minorities are going to be posted to sensitive army units. Nothing to do with being intellectual. If you want to talk about communism do you know why natha and the chinese language schools were close down last time? They were activities for communists or suspected to be so. Do you feel indignant for them? After all such a connection was made by LKY and that's it bye bye chinese language schools. (yes, then he backtracked and made compromise for SAP schools) It's human nature to side with ppl from your own race wouldn't you say? ( am sorry, me and many other Singaporeans don't feel that way) Especially since the majority in this region aren't really that similar compared to the indons and dayaks etc. Have you forgotten about the circumstances that brought the extistence and the independence of singapore? The fact that singapore can still be used as a boogeyman to drum up nationalistic fervour. The fact that malays are in general more united. (really then what do you call the incident like the Confrontation then?? ) The fact that muslims tend to side with one another putting aside other differences. The fact that there have been radicalised local malays before. (Yes, here's a fun fact for you, If I recall, in 2009 Muslim Malaysia captured escaped limping terrorist JI mastermind Mas Selamat Kastari )
Let me draw up this alternate scenerio for you. There's this island near taiwan and china. Since it is near china there are chinese people living on it but they are a minority. The majority of citizens on this island near to china are people from a region far away say central asia. Anyway skip all the bullshit but this island used to be a part of china but was kicked out from china so needless to say there is some bad blood between china and this island. The chinese citizens of that island aren't chinese nationals nor are they taiwanese citizens but citizens of that island. Since said island is so close to china and taiwan or surrounded in chinese territory the govt of the island decides not to let the chinese citizens of his island into sensitive military units. Without any biasness on your part would you think this is acceptable? Makes sense to me actually. Usually when i draw up a scenerio like this ppl think critically and do not get emotionally involved unlike the singapore issue. (again I FAIL to see THE logic, but thanks for taking time to explain YOUR logic)
At the end of the day it's all just conjuncture. (aptly put) I have stated my reasons as to why malays aren't allowed and they seem logical and sensible enough. (LOGICAL for YOU I cannot say for myself or some others) You're coming along the lines of the sg govt is just simply racist or taking it out on the malays for singapore being kicked out of malaysia something like a vendetta old fart has with malaysia and he's using the malays as his punching bag to exact petty revenge. (Is not this conjecture?? Also where in my responses have I even mentioned an Old Fart..By the way who is OLD FART ?? please be specific ) Actually sounds rather silly to me let's hope you don't think this way. (nope never believe in conspiracy or ufo theories) Unless you have connections in the upper echleons or the inner circle of the govt who actually knows the precise reason why. (nope like you am just ordinary Singaporean and even if I do or say work in some clandestine govt organisation, will be foolish of me to expose myself)
Finally as I mentioned before, this issue is a non -starter for most SG Malays nowadays.. as i said most are happy with sociopolitical engineered arrangement of PAP Govt, cos at least they know in times of war, others like yourself, who probably served in a "sensitive" SAF unit will be fighting for them. nowadays they more interested in looking out for goodies like baby Bonus, GST offset package and how much grant and freebies the PAP Govt is willing to dish out for their vote...
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and he still proceeds to post in such a manner as if he's not even quoting from someone. 
I wonder what m&ds think of all this?
Do they even bother that they are discriminated against or are they happy with the odd bone thrown to them?
Take this pappy m&d:
http://www.straitstimes.com/breakin...lays-saf-compares-those-new-citizens-20130206
He dont even have the balls to ask a simple question: When will discrimination against malays end?
Its a bloody simple question, this also m&ds cmi, susah la.
Do they even bother that they are discriminated against or are they happy with the odd bone thrown to them?
Take this pappy m&d:
http://www.straitstimes.com/breakin...lays-saf-compares-those-new-citizens-20130206
He dont even have the balls to ask a simple question: When will discrimination against malays end?
Its a bloody simple question, this also m&ds cmi, susah la.
Abangs Jah and minuteman,
post so long msg for what? make things simple can, we are talking about m&ds here, not shits or urines.
Things need to be simple for them.
terima kasih bangs
post so long msg for what? make things simple can, we are talking about m&ds here, not shits or urines.
Things need to be simple for them.
terima kasih bangs
and he still proceeds to post in such a manner as if he's not even quoting from someone.
Really, I didn't know SID actually allows Malay in for very obvious reasons. Knew a colleague back then whose appointment was held up for a long time just because his spouse was a Malay.
I high doubt SID has Malays. If they do, they wont be Singaporeans but FTs loyal to PAP
Yes same same with South American footballers enjoy playing in Spanish La Liga more than other european leagues....
Used to be Airforce, Navy, Elite units like Commandos and support units like Armour, Arty, Engineers all got no malays...and malays cannot go far in the army.
But now got malay pilots and general ranks even.......so i think no longer true.....if can fly an F-16 sure can operate tank right?
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