PAPsmearer's analysis of latest Li Shengwu vs Li Hongyi FB exchanges

[Charlie99]

I believe that in old days (during my time serving NS, 1976 to 1978),
the bond of 6 years, include the NS duration of 2.5 years.

 

[Papsmearer]

Dear @Papsmearer, if it's not too much trouble, may I ask you to explain the true meaning of the following:
sso.agc.gov.sg/SL/EA1970-RG1#pr16-

"16. Unless otherwise expressly provided in any agreement in writing between the applicant and the proper authority, the terms and conditions of a person in regular service shall be as prescribed from time to time in regulations or in the orders of the Ministry of Defence."

As I have mentioned to eatshit, and obviously, you have not paid any attention, any agreement between the scholar and MINDEATH whether in writing or not, is outright illegal and unconstitutional. No exceptions are made under the Enlistment Act of Singapore, which is in the constitution and hence the highest law of the land. The latest edition of the Enlistment Act is below. Everyone MUST serve 2 years, and those that have attained a rank higher then Lance-corporal can have the service extended by MINDEF to 2.5 years. MINDEF has chosen not to exercise this option, which is why all NS is now 2 years. But this option has not been removed from the constitution. Which is why in clauses a) to d) the word "may" appears. However, what is not an option is the 2 years NS period, and as you can see from the Enlistment Act, there are no acception to any professions, whether they are soldiers, or scholars. What eat shit claims is that he did only 2 years of NS, when in actuality, all officers from his cohort have a normal NS term of 2.5 years. So, the 6 months of NS he is supposed to have completed was never done.

Liability to render full-time service

12.—(1) Every person subject to this Act who is fit for national service and enlisted on or after 1st January 1971 shall be liable to render full-time service for a period not exceeding 2 years except that where a person — (a) is, during the period of service, promoted to a rank above the rank of Lance-Corporal in the Singapore Armed Forces or, where such service is in any of the other armed forces or in a force, body or organisation which is designated by the Minister for the purposes of national service, to such rank as may be regarded by the proper authority as equal to a rank above the rank of Lance-Corporal in the Singapore Armed Forces; (b) holds, during the period of service in a force, body or organisation which is designated by the Minister for the purposes of national service and in which there is no classification of the members of the force, body or organisation into ranks similar to those in any of the armed forces, such position or has, during the period of service in such force, body or organisation, such status as may be regarded by the proper authority as equal to the position or status, as the case may be, of a national serviceman in the Singapore Armed Forces who holds a rank above the rank of Lance-Corporal in the Singapore Armed Forces; (c) is, during the period of service, selected by the proper authority for officer training in the Singapore Armed Forces or, where such service is in any of the other armed forces or in a force, body or organisation which is designated by the Minister for the purposes of national service, is selected for training or a course intended to qualify him for such rank, position or status as may be regarded by the proper authority as equal to the rank, position or status, as the case may be, of an officer in the Singapore Armed Forces; or (d) having been so selected as referred to in paragraph (c), is currently undergoing such officer training or other training or attending the course, such person shall be liable to serve for a period not exceeding 2 years and 6 months. [18/78] (2) A reduction or reversion in rank or the loss of a position or status referred to in subsection (1) shall not affect the liability of a person incurred under that subsection.

 

[nayr69sg]

As I have mentioned to eatshit, and obviously, you have not paid any attention, any agreement between the scholar and MINDEATH whether in writing or not, is outright illegal and unconstitutional. No exceptions are made under the Enlistment Act of Singapore, which is in the constitution and hence the highest law of the land. The latest edition of the Enlistment Act is below. Everyone MUST serve 2 years, and those that have attained a rank higher then Lance-corporal can have the service extended by MINDEF to 2.5 years. MINDEF has chosen not to exercise this option, which is why all NS is now 2 years. But this option has not been removed from the constitution. Which is why in clauses a) to d) the word "may" appears. However, what is not an option is the 2 years NS period, and as you can see from the Enlistment Act, there are no acception to any professions, whether they are soldiers, or scholars. What eat shit claims is that he did only 2 years of NS, when in actuality, all officers from his cohort have a normal NS term of 2.5 years. So, the 6 months of NS he is supposed to have completed was never done.

Liability to render full-time service

12.—(1) Every person subject to this Act who is fit for national service and enlisted on or after 1st January 1971 shall be liable to render full-time service for a period not exceeding 2 years except that where a person — (a) is, during the period of service, promoted to a rank above the rank of Lance-Corporal in the Singapore Armed Forces or, where such service is in any of the other armed forces or in a force, body or organisation which is designated by the Minister for the purposes of national service, to such rank as may be regarded by the proper authority as equal to a rank above the rank of Lance-Corporal in the Singapore Armed Forces; (b) holds, during the period of service in a force, body or organisation which is designated by the Minister for the purposes of national service and in which there is no classification of the members of the force, body or organisation into ranks similar to those in any of the armed forces, such position or has, during the period of service in such force, body or organisation, such status as may be regarded by the proper authority as equal to the position or status, as the case may be, of a national serviceman in the Singapore Armed Forces who holds a rank above the rank of Lance-Corporal in the Singapore Armed Forces; (c) is, during the period of service, selected by the proper authority for officer training in the Singapore Armed Forces or, where such service is in any of the other armed forces or in a force, body or organisation which is designated by the Minister for the purposes of national service, is selected for training or a course intended to qualify him for such rank, position or status as may be regarded by the proper authority as equal to the rank, position or status, as the case may be, of an officer in the Singapore Armed Forces; or (d) having been so selected as referred to in paragraph (c), is currently undergoing such officer training or other training or attending the course, such person shall be liable to serve for a period not exceeding 2 years and 6 months. [18/78] (2) A reduction or reversion in rank or the loss of a position or status referred to in subsection (1) shall not affect the liability of a person incurred under that subsection.

So how? He should go back and serve the remaining 6 months?

 

[Papsmearer]

I believe that in old days (during my time serving NS, 1976 to 1978),
the bond of 6 years, include the NS duration of 2.5 years.

Yes this is correct. But in reality, some part of NS is done before they are deferred. Legally, this is not allowed as the Enlistment Act says you must complete NS. No bond or MINDEF regulation can supercede the Enlistment Act. The 6 year Bond should have started after the person finished his 2.5 years of NS.

 

[Papsmearer]

So how? He should go back and serve the remaining 6 months?

that's not for me to answer.

 

[Papsmearer]

He named his eat shit and die nick says about him...

Yar lor

 

[Papsmearer]

you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about trying to bring in the enlistment act, after spewing so much rubbish and going on a fishing expedition. of course i received regular pay, and i mentioned since ocs (can’t you read?). for regulars and safos are essentially regulars, statutes allow mindeaf to dictate terms depending on number of years signed by regulars which translates to ns obligations going beyond 2.5 years. the regular section of the act gives that provision.

Show me which statue and which regular section of the act permits this provision. Otherwise shut the fuck up.

 

[nayr69sg]

that's not for me to answer.

Yes this is correct. But in reality, some part of NS is done before they are deferred. Legally, this is not allowed as the Enlistment Act says you must complete NS. No bond or MINDEF regulation can supercede the Enlistment Act. The 6 year Bond should have started after the person finished his 2.5 years of NS.

So he got discount lah.

Aiyah....all this bond here bond there stuff is nonsense. There is really no proper value of these bonds just arbitrary.

It is not like he served 2 years in SAF (in ANY capacity) and then run road go private sector. That one quite clear cut.

The eatshit bro definitely spent >2.5 years in SAF (in some capacity).

Tony Tan's son also served his NS correct? 2.5 years?

 

[Papsmearer]

So he got discount lah.

Aiyah....all this bond here bond there stuff is nonsense. There is really no proper value of these bonds just arbitrary.

It is not like he served 2 years in SAF (in ANY capacity) and then run road go private sector. That one quite clear cut.

The eatshit bro definitely spent >2.5 years in SAF (in some capacity).

Tony Tan's son also served his NS correct? 2.5 years?

Yes, he got discount. Such discount is illegal, and not permitted under the Enlistment Act.

I don't care how long eat shit has spend the SAF. That was not the point. The point was he never completed NS. That is 2 separate issues.

I have already mentioned Patrick Tan did not complete his NS. Read the earlier posts. Patrick Tan enters NS and first 3 months in BMT scholar platoon. Was this 3 months real NS. Yes, he received NS pay and allowance and subject to same rules as other recruits. Patrick Tan then went to OCS, from my understanding, only for 2 weeks before deferring to go for his studies. Was this first 2 weeks also real NS. Yes. After that, no more NS for him. He was given expensive and long education under scholarship. Also paid as a regular when he returned.

 

[nayr69sg]

Yes, he got discount. Such discount is illegal, and not permitted under the Enlistment Act.

I don't care how long eat shit has spend the SAF. That was not the point. The point was he never completed NS. That is 2 separate issues.

I have already mentioned Patrick Tan did not complete his NS. Read the earlier posts. Patrick Tan enters NS and first 3 months in BMT scholar platoon. Was this 3 months real NS. Yes, he received NS pay and allowance and subject to same rules as other recruits. Patrick Tan then went to OCS, from my understanding, only for 2 weeks before deferring to go for his studies. Was this first 2 weeks also real NS. Yes. After that, no more NS for him. He was given expensive and long education under scholarship. Also paid as a regular when he returned.

maybe eatshit bro mix up lah. He served 2.5 years of NS but only completed 5.5 years of his bond?

I thought Patrick Tan spent his remaining NS days in some SAF lab?

Personally, I served my NS in a medical centre seeing recruits reporting sick. Most of my NS I was wearing civilian. Didn't bother changing to uniform at the medical centre. After all recruits call me "dog" which is correct.

Might just be how to consider the time he spent in the SAF as whether serving his 2.5 years under the Enlistment Act and how much of it was serving his bond.

Maybe eatshit bro is some super white horse too? Like Patrick Tan?

As you know there are also some sinkie males whose file gets lost and never even serve NS! I have a friend went back to register for NS. Went for Medical Checkup and CMPB. Wait and wait. No call up. Went to CMPB after 3 months ask eh when you going to call me up for enlistment BMT? They say just wait. So far cannot see anything coming up. Wait another 3 months nothing. Ask again they say hmmm looks like dunno where your docket went.

After ONE YEAR wasted in sinkieland the guy decides aiyah just go back to X country start university lah. Fuck MINDEF. Basket go back want to serve, you dilly dally waste my time.....

Up to now never receive anything from MINDEF! So they really lost his file and he is gone from radar liao!

 

[eatshitndie]

I believe that in old days (during my time serving NS, 1976 to 1978),
the bond of 6 years, include the NS duration of 2.5 years.

it depends on when the individual sign on with the saf (as a regular officer or nco) or mindeaf (as an me or a civilian role). an ns conscript may decide to sign on as a regular during registration, before bmt or after bmt, or in the middle of an nco course. if mindeaf accepts his application and he passes the interview, he will be notified of approval sometime later, and it can be in the middle of his 2-year ns for pengkia (wanting to becum specialist nco) or 2.5 years for nco and occifer. the contract of 6 years starts when he is notified by letter to his s1 in the school or unit of the approval date. thus, if he has already served 1 year of ns when contract is approved, he will be required to serve 7 years in total. the bond is technically different from the 6-year contract as it's a monetary value set aside for matters of dispute, such as soldier or scholar breaking the contract and bond payment (or seizure) becomes effective. nonetheless, in sinkie simpleton speak the bond has becum synonymous with a sign-on contract. for safos, they usually apply after getting results on their "a" levels and by then many would have being conscripted as "full-time ns" men. some get their results earlier and apply before their 1st day in camp. all applicants still have to go through interviews and the selection process, and this can happen while they are undergoing training. once safos sign on, they effectively become "regulars" and terms and conditions of duration of service fall under chapter 16 of the enlistment act. chapter 16 supersedes chapter 12 for regular service personnel as regular service (also considered national service) is different from full-time (conscripted) ns.

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

any agreement between the scholar and MINDEATH whether in writing or not, is outright illegal and unconstitutional. No exceptions are made under the Enlistment Act of Singapore, which is in the constitution and hence the highest law of the land.

Then why is the following sentence:

sso.agc.gov.sg/SL/EA1970-RG1#pr16-

"16. Unless otherwise expressly provided in any agreement in writing between the applicant and the proper authority, the terms and conditions of a person in regular service shall be as prescribed from time to time in regulations or in the orders of the Ministry of Defence."

part of the "Constitution"?

 

[eatshitndie]

maybe eatshit bro mix up lah. He served 2.5 years of NS but only completed 5.5 years of his bond?

I thought Patrick Tan spent his remaining NS days in some SAF lab?

Personally, I served my NS in a medical centre seeing recruits reporting sick. Most of my NS I was wearing civilian. Didn't bother changing to uniform at the medical centre. After all recruits call me "dog" which is correct.

Might just be how to consider the time he spent in the SAF as whether serving his 2.5 years under the Enlistment Act and how much of it was serving his bond.

Maybe eatshit bro is some super white horse too? Like Patrick Tan?

As you know there are also some sinkie males whose file gets lost and never even serve NS! I have a friend went back to register for NS. Went for Medical Checkup and CMPB. Wait and wait. No call up. Went to CMPB after 3 months ask eh when you going to call me up for enlistment BMT? They say just wait. So far cannot see anything coming up. Wait another 3 months nothing. Ask again they say hmmm looks like dunno where your docket went.

After ONE YEAR wasted in sinkieland the guy decides aiyah just go back to X country start university lah. Fuck MINDEF. Basket go back want to serve, you dilly dally waste my time.....

Up to now never receive anything from MINDEF! So they really lost his file and he is gone from radar liao!

i actually served 6.9 years, almost 7 years in total as i was ordered to go to ocs in the midst of engineer tank training. my instructor (already a regular nco), also joined me in ocs, and he won the coveted sword of honor. i'm so proud of him as he's a great soldier and occifer. returned from overseas studies and served out the remaining 5 years, mostly in a civilian role (3 years) in a highly classified department. that's where i met "v", a rhodes scholar, who told me that his analysts mistook "adis ababa" and "khartoum" for "ali baba" and "cartoon" in their report.

 

[eatshitndie]

Yes, he got discount. Such discount is illegal, and not permitted under the Enlistment Act.

I don't care how long eat shit has spend the SAF. That was not the point. The point was he never completed NS. That is 2 separate issues.

I have already mentioned Patrick Tan did not complete his NS. Read the earlier posts. Patrick Tan enters NS and first 3 months in BMT scholar platoon. Was this 3 months real NS. Yes, he received NS pay and allowance and subject to same rules as other recruits. Patrick Tan then went to OCS, from my understanding, only for 2 weeks before deferring to go for his studies. Was this first 2 weeks also real NS. Yes. After that, no more NS for him. He was given expensive and long education under scholarship. Also paid as a regular when he returned.

if i don't complete my ns, how can i renounce my stinkie shitizenship, get a clean slate from sg, and withdraw my cpf? every time i visit sg they know me and my background, and give me a big smile.

 

[eatshitndie]

Then why is the following sentence:

part of the "Constitution"?

chapter 16 of the act applies to those who sign up for "regular service", and the terms are different from those who are conscripted as "full-time" servicemen whose terms are defined in chapter 12.

 

[tanwahtiu]

So u are xx years old today begin at 18 ... shhhh. Quietly ...

I believe that in old days (during my time serving NS, 1976 to 1978),
the bond of 6 years, include the NS duration of 2.5 years.

 

[tanwahtiu]

Bro. Must take this matter in GE. We are fucked by PAP CAQ and his sons never completed 2 years real nsf...

Knn... if Bok dont bring up this issue tell this PAP mole to quit dont pretend he dont know about white horses siam nsf... fuck PAP...

Yes, he got discount. Such discount is illegal, and not permitted under the Enlistment Act.

I don't care how long eat shit has spend the SAF. That was not the point. The point was he never completed NS. That is 2 separate issues.

I have already mentioned Patrick Tan did not complete his NS. Read the earlier posts. Patrick Tan enters NS and first 3 months in BMT scholar platoon. Was this 3 months real NS. Yes, he received NS pay and allowance and subject to same rules as other recruits. Patrick Tan then went to OCS, from my understanding, only for 2 weeks before deferring to go for his studies. Was this first 2 weeks also real NS. Yes. After that, no more NS for him. He was given expensive and long education under scholarship. Also paid as a regular when he returned.

 

[tanwahtiu]

These BG rank scholars didnt actually went through reall nsf training like all male must do...

We are fuck if real war happen under fake SAF BG rank holders.

Must catch CCS by his collar and hang him with piano wires... fuck fake BG CCS...

 

[tanwahtiu]

U are a 患乱出英雄好汉... 野火烧不近 can get such deep info about whitehorse abuse NSF Act which peasants like us do not know such abuse of nsf law by the creator of nsf PAP.

Fuck LKY hakka are bad people gangster only care for his family and extended one....

If NSF training is so dangerous can kill people it shd be ban...

Make this a next GE issue kick out fake BGs holding ministers post includ CAQ fake nsf soldier....

You really need to stop spouting your shit knowledge about SAF scholarships. I have already corrected you once in this thread, and now I have to do it again. Stop spreading misinformation, its making you look like an asshole.

1) NS is never extended, regardless of the number of years of the bond. Once they disrupt from their NS to carry out their schooling under the scholarship, they never have to return to serve NS. When they set foot in Singapore again, after getting their undergraduate degree, they are already full fledged LTA, and regular sign on officers.
2) While they are in uni under the Scholarship, they are already promoted to 2Lt and then LTA, and get paid like regular SAF officers of the same rank. They do not get paid the NS allowance for NSmen 2Lt and LTA rank. Coupled with the money the get for schooling and board and lodging and flight home, you cannot even remotely say this is NS level compensation.
3) Once they return to singapore after graduating, they are posted out to their units as scholar officers. The rank of LTA and later Capt follows them. At no time do they suffer the pay, pain and sweat and tears of an NSmen. They are untouchables because no unit commander wants to piss off an SAF scholar for fear that the fucker will outrank him one day if he turns into a high flyer. I have seen SAF scholars disrupt midway thru School of Armour, and come back full fledge LTA regular from an Aussie Uni. They are fucked up out in the field because they never spend time with the armour regiments as a platoon commander, and have no idea what they are doing. I have so many complains from senior officers in the SIRs about these people being clueless.
4) Once they come back, the bond starts for the next 6 years. During this time, they are getting the full pay of a SAF regular. By the time the 6th year rolls along, they will get a Major rank if they are any decent. If not, then Capt rank. The promising ones are encouraged to stay in the SAF and sign another contract. Their career path is shown to them, which means to say they will attain Lt Col or full bird Col rank by the end of the second contract. By the end of the 3rd contract, they would have already been identified for political office or stat board position and these are the fuckers who will be General rank. Kee Chiu followed this path.
5) Hence all SAF scholars have never completed their 2-2.5 years of NS like other males. After their disruption, at no time do they receive NS pay or come back to complete their 2 years as NSmen. So, stop your bullshitting.

 

[empathizerofeatshitndie]

once safos sign on, they effectively become "regulars" and terms and conditions of duration of service fall under chapter 16 of the enlistment act. chapter 16 supersedes chapter 12 for regular service personnel as regular service (also considered national service) is different from full-time (conscripted) ns.

chapter 16 of the act applies to those who sign up for "regular service", and the terms are different from those who are conscripted as "full-time" servicemen whose terms are defined in chapter 12.

But unless I've misunderstood @Papsmearer, he seems to be clearly saying that it's still:

...outright illegal and unconstitutional. No exceptions are made under the Enlistment Act of Singapore, which is in the constitution and hence the highest law of the land.