Opposition-bashing in "Opposition unity" forum

[Lestat]

I kept num???? or you just selectively ignore what I have said

You want to bring back an old topic.sure

What is the use of increasing Chinese language standard in Singapore? what kind of country is Singapore? Singapore is a multi-racial, multi-cultural society. With such diversity, the focus should be on what could give everyone a common form of understanding and communication and that is why ENGLISH should be promoted and always upheld promoted as the standard for all medium and all work shoulod be done to incrase trhe Standard of English.

On top of things is the fact that English is and still is the dominat language in world business and international dealing, not mandrain. that is something you cannot deal with.

English is trhe choose language for such a purpose as its not natively spoken by any of the races and since Singapore was a British colony, it make more sense If Singapore was a german or even French colony, then either german or French would have been choosen

Your original argument had been that Mandrain ( there is no such a langiage called Chinese), should be placed as 1st language over English. In fact your argument is that because the majority race in Singapore is Chinese, then Mandrain should be given priority over English and all other languages That is where i oppose to your view upon racial harmony and social stablity.

Given the fact that Singapore we have other races and many sensitive feelings to consider, your argument would lead to discrmination of other culture, hence (the possibility of) leading to racial riots, hence leading to chaos, which i notice you seem to enjoy and not forsee in that narrow world you live in

its was obvious that you were never interested in living in peace, you were more into serving your interest.

As for your absense of argument on PAP mindset, attitude and outlook, you have shown no reason or even argument. Your only point is LKY this and LKY that and to you, PAP=LKY and nothing more. You cant even explain what does it mean by "walking too close" and cant even describe it.

LKY is but a man and a man will die sooner or later. LKY is not the excues why Singapore is like whatever we are today, we have to take responiblity ourselves for allowing things to happen, for allowing PAP to hold power so long and for not doing anything when we could and should

So, stop cooking up excues when you have none and stop trying to diveert attention when many here had argued against you. When so many had claim you are wrong, its clear, you are wrong and you were not right unless someone who is respected here agree with you

I dont think that would happen.

btw, i have not insulted you very much, but if I see you face to face, i would love to insult you for the low life loser you had made yourself to be, the mental traitor that you had displayed.

Points in bold are points which I agree with you. I've added a disclaimer in one of your statement, just in case.

 

[Lestat]

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200402/22/print20040222_135475.html

message taunted

Why do you quote a communist source and compare it with a (semi)communist state?

 

[Lestat]

upholding chinese language standard is not against multi racial society. its having self respect for the chinese ethnic group.

without first respecting the language and culture of one's ethnic group, how do we talk about multi-racial society then??

Respecting the language and culture does not mean that we MUST advocate Mandarin as our 1st mother tongue.

 

[Lestat]

most of the problems here in singapore, its the manifestation of Lee Kuan Yew and PAP ideologies.

take for example. the two is enuf policy advocate by LKY. in the early 70s. it has created the current population problem in spore.

from idea, to advocating, influencing the people, to implementation of policy, and the materialization, the exponentiation the impact of the policy, to the current population problem. the root cause of this currnt population problem here in our country, is the LKY and the PAP.

and it starts from LKY and PAP, from their idea, their outlook. it begin with outlooks and ideas. it start from an idea. it start from ideology, and outlook.

just go thru all the major problem in spore. most of it, i bet, would have Lee Kuan Yew 'signature' on it. with Lee Kuan Yew's outlook behind it.

Yes, all policies have a certain trademark of LKY or whatever you want to call it. But the prerogative is on the citizens to choose the ruling party. If the citizens are still willing to choose them as the govt, what can the minority do about it?

whether LKY would die or not, thats not the issue. the issue is that sporeans has gotta face up to LKY's outlooks, and get rid of those outdated, seriously flawed LKY outlook. because even after his death, his idea would carry on surviving in this country. his idea would be carry on uphold by the PAP camp.

&

we have to take responiblity ourselves for allowing things to happen, for allowing PAP to hold power so long and for not doing anything when we could and should

Aren't you slapping your own face by disagreeing and yet agreeing with cleareyes?

 

[char_jig_kar]

Respecting the language and culture does not mean that we MUST advocate Mandarin as our 1st mother tongue.

yes. respecting the chinese language doesn't means we have to advocate the language to be 1st language in the country. i agree.

but at least, sporean chinese should have basic proficiency in the chinese language. thats what i advocate.

 

[Ramseth]

Singapore is not China. Singapore is not founded by Emperor Qin Shihuang but by Sir Stamford Raffles. Chinese immigrants and Chinese descendants should keep some basic Chinese, I agree, just like Malay natives and Indian immigrants should keep their languages, to a certain level, I agree. But to expect or demand all Singapore Chinese to be of Chinese standards like PRCs or ROCs or HKs? I don't think so. If your ancestors are so Chinese, they won't migrate out in the first place. Migration has its costs and compromises. The descendants have to live with the implications and consquences, in the new non-Chinese land alongside non-Chinese compatriots. And vice versa, as the the Malay natives and Indian immigrants also have to.

Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and Philippines each have 7 - 8 million Chinese. Perhaps you'd say they sold out wholesale more than Singapore Chinese, perhaps you'll say 7 - 8 million over there constitutes only a small percentage. Whatever.

 

[char_jig_kar]

Yes, all policies have a certain trademark of LKY or whatever you want to call it. But the prerogative is on the citizens to choose the ruling party. If the citizens are still willing to choose them as the govt, what can the minority do about it?

the emphasis is on the Opposition. the Opposition could start doing some work in introspection on their ideologies, their outlooks. to purge the seriously flawed LKY/ PAP outlooks from the Opposition ideologies and outlooks. not hanging on and defend the flawed LKY/ PAP outlooks.

Aren't you slapping your own face by disagreeing and yet agreeing with cleareyes?

i am not sure what u mean here.

the people allow the PAP govt to stay in power, yeah. but wat about the Opposition? the Opposition have a choice to ditch the PAP outlooks, come up with their own vision.

 

[char_jig_kar]

Singapore is not China. Singapore is not founded by Emperor Qin Shihuang but by Sir Stamford Raffles. Chinese immigrants and Chinese descendants should keep some basic Chinese, I agree, just like Malay natives and Indian immigrants should keep their languages, to a certain level, I agree. But to expect or demand all Singapore Chinese to be of Chinese standards like PRCs or ROCs or HKs? I don't think so. If your ancestors are so Chinese, they won't migrate out in the first place. Migration has its costs and compromises. The descendants have to live with the implications and consquences, in the new non-Chinese land alongside non-Chinese compatriots. And vice versa, as the the Malay natives and Indian immigrants also have to.

Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and Philippines each have 7 - 8 million Chinese. Perhaps you'd say they sold out wholesale more than Singapore Chinese, perhaps you'll say 7 - 8 million over there constitutes only a small percentage. Whatever.

but we have 75% chinese population here no? and a independent country with sovereignty isn't it? we are no longer colony of the British isn't it? so why implement english as first language when the population is 97% asian? isn't it against the rule of proportion here in this country?

 

[char_jig_kar]

Respecting the language and culture does not mean that we MUST advocate Mandarin as our 1st mother tongue.

even if i advocate mandarin as 1st language for the chinese, whats wrong with that? let all the races here in spore use their language as first language, and all of us use english as 2nd language.

why would that lead to racial riot?

the problem is we are hanging on to PAP's attitude towards language. they deem english as higher language than all other asian languages in spore. thats the problem. a perception, mindset, attitude problem.

 

[char_jig_kar]

in order to stay true to multi racial society, we should not over emphasize on english language like we do now.

why?

'cause by putting too much emphasis in english language, we are turning spore into a western country. thats not multi racial, multi cultural! thats being a colony of the western countries.

 

[Lestat]

even if i advocate mandarin as 1st language for the chinese, whats wrong with that? all the races use their language as first language, and all of us use english as 2nd language.

why would that lead to racial riot?

All the other races uses their preferred mother tongue as their choice of spoken language, but they still use and take english as their 1st language.

If you insist on Singaporean Chinese to use mandarin as their first language, wouldn't that lead to other races insisting on using their mother tongue as their first language, which in turn might result in disagreements over choice of language for communication, hence leading to a potential racial riot?

 

[char_jig_kar]

All the other races uses their preferred mother tongue as their choice of spoken language, but they still use and take english as their 1st language.

If you insist on Singaporean Chinese to use mandarin as their first language, wouldn't that lead to other races insisting on using their mother tongue as their first language, which in turn might result in disagreements over choice of language for communication, hence leading to a potential racial riot?

wats the problem? that is the way it suppose to be. our official language have four languages. malay, chinese, tamil, and english.

but the problem now, is, we turn our back on this spirit of multi racial society, and put way too much emphasis on english language.

respecting and upholding one's mother tongue, and then learn English as second language. so that different race could communicate. what is so wrong with that arrangement???

 

[char_jig_kar]

let me tell u wats wrong with that arrangement...

that arrangement would be problematic... FOR THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE CHAUVINIST SUCH AS LEE KUAN YEW AND THE LOT!

THEY DON'T WANT THAT KIND OF ARRANGEMENT! THEY WANT ENGLISH AS THE ONLY LUMMMMEEEER ONE LANGUAGE HERE!

 

[char_jig_kar]

msg deleted

 

[cleareyes]

Points in bold are points which I agree with you. I've added a disclaimer in one of your statement, just in case.

Thank you

I have read through the fellow's recent argument and he had turned out to be what I have said of him. Singaore had given space for the development of any of the languages of the main race. whether they be Mandrain, Malay or Tamil. But it seems he is out to argue Mandrain over other languages, insisting on proficiency when there is nothing wrong with it at all.

Singapore is not China or Taiwan. Singapore is Singapore. That is something we all have to understand.

 

[char_jig_kar]

Thank you

I have read through the fellow's recent argument and he had turned out to be what I have said of him. Singaore had given space for the development of any of the languages of the main race. whether they be Mandrain, Malay or Tamil. But it seems he is out to argue Mandrain over other languages, insisting on proficiency when there is nothing wrong with it at all.

Singapore is not China or Taiwan. Singapore is Singapore. That is something we all have to understand.

whether singapore is part of china, thats not the issue here. we all know spore is a independent country with soverignty. (so why the emphasis in english language even we are no longer a colony of the british, and its a 97 percent asian 75 percent chinese population??) we have a problem. singapore has got written chinese problem. our chinese language standard is low.

anyway, here's the issue. suppose spore chinese language standard is low like i said, and my suggestion to up the level of standard here, why would that lead to racial riot? respecting and upholding the chinese language standard, why would that lead to racial riot?? you have not given me an answer to this question.

 

[kakowi]

sorry guys, but let me get one thing clear first - is language an election platform for any of the parties here?

 

[char_jig_kar]

sorry guys, but let me get one thing clear first - is language an election platform for any of the parties here?

no. just shows that we are all pretty much co-opt by the PAP camp their idea, view in terms of language policy isn't it?

 

[kakowi]

no. just shows that we are all pretty much co-opt by the PAP camp their idea, view in terms of language policy isn't it?

not really, it goes to show that all of you are fighting over nothing and hurting each other in the process

 

[leetahbar]

not really, it goes to show that all of you are fighting over nothing and hurting each other in the process

what is his motive? the real one?