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Why I think Sporeans are not willing to start families.. young.. or at all
- Thread starter Tension68
- Start date
you hit another good point.
Look at how the employers are reacting to the notion put forth by NTUC for 6mths maternity leave.. they are up in arms and even dare to put "loss of productivity".. the govt's fav phrase/word to hit back.. to show their objection. How then can working women haf mre time for their children?
Best of all, one fren even commented "all this is wayang la.. they pakak one.. all in cahoots to gif a show nia".. and somehow.. I believe him.
And to the post of my fren's cousin.. getting intimate wif his galfriend.. well.. I nvr asked him.. I only asked him when he was getting married and he raised that at one reason.
Whether he goes to H81 wif his galfriend.. or go holiday bungalows or go overseas or watever.. I dun ask.. it's their private thing.. I not THAT kaypoh.
I read quite a number or replies on Lau Lee's "plea" to sg to procreate more.. and one letter even said that he and his wife had children not bcos of the baby bonus, but bcos they wanted to bring up children and start a family, and they loved kids.
But later on, they had issues and worries on how to deal with the education.. to follow or not to follow.
It strikes me that a Sporean had the guts to write in that the BABY BONUS did nothing to attract him and his wife.. and that the desire to haf kids and to bring start a family mattered more.
For so many years the govt had been trying to tackle this issue of low birth rate amongst Sporeans. Did they really do enought to find out why Sporeans aren't producing enuf.. or even producing at all? The baby bonuses now seem to be a very futile "quick fix" approach.. and that leads me to think more.. on how many more "quick fix" ideas and policies that the govt had came up wif over the years.
Remember once when the govt ENCOURAGED Sporeans to be entrepreneurs? If I remember correctly, it was the financial crisis and the start of PMETs losing their jobs to foreigners.. now.. this "call" seems like another "quick fix" idea thrown to Sporeans.
Why are the ministers being paid so "handsomely", but rely on think-tanks and experts to give them ideas and whatever? I mean, being the cream of the crop, surely they can come up with some good ways to try to address situations, no?
And why is it that MONEY is always the most featued "quick fix" approach to issues and problems? From babies, sports.. etc etc.. I mean.. is there nothing else those "geniuses" can come up with?
For the "handsome" amount of money the ministers are getting, I don't see a good "report card" on issues that SG citizens in general are facing.. or dealing with. In fact, I feel that the pappies FAIL in almost every department now. They don't seem to listen to the general public on issues that concern the SG citizens. They don't seem to understand what SG citizens actually want or need. And the worst thing is, they seem to think everything can be solved with MONEY...
The low birth rate has definitely shown that giving ppl money doesn't exactly encourage them.. but why has it taken the pappies SOOO long to actually want to listen?? Perhaps they realized that the foreigners don't do any good either??
But later on, they had issues and worries on how to deal with the education.. to follow or not to follow.
It strikes me that a Sporean had the guts to write in that the BABY BONUS did nothing to attract him and his wife.. and that the desire to haf kids and to bring start a family mattered more.
For so many years the govt had been trying to tackle this issue of low birth rate amongst Sporeans. Did they really do enought to find out why Sporeans aren't producing enuf.. or even producing at all? The baby bonuses now seem to be a very futile "quick fix" approach.. and that leads me to think more.. on how many more "quick fix" ideas and policies that the govt had came up wif over the years.
Remember once when the govt ENCOURAGED Sporeans to be entrepreneurs? If I remember correctly, it was the financial crisis and the start of PMETs losing their jobs to foreigners.. now.. this "call" seems like another "quick fix" idea thrown to Sporeans.
Why are the ministers being paid so "handsomely", but rely on think-tanks and experts to give them ideas and whatever? I mean, being the cream of the crop, surely they can come up with some good ways to try to address situations, no?
And why is it that MONEY is always the most featued "quick fix" approach to issues and problems? From babies, sports.. etc etc.. I mean.. is there nothing else those "geniuses" can come up with?
For the "handsome" amount of money the ministers are getting, I don't see a good "report card" on issues that SG citizens in general are facing.. or dealing with. In fact, I feel that the pappies FAIL in almost every department now. They don't seem to listen to the general public on issues that concern the SG citizens. They don't seem to understand what SG citizens actually want or need. And the worst thing is, they seem to think everything can be solved with MONEY...
The low birth rate has definitely shown that giving ppl money doesn't exactly encourage them.. but why has it taken the pappies SOOO long to actually want to listen?? Perhaps they realized that the foreigners don't do any good either??
It's not easy to start a family.. not just mere words but come with responsibilities and commitment.
It's not just the social issues which prevent someone from taking plunge at making serious commitments like marriage for instance. But the (projected) stigma that keeps one away from taking a leap of faith. Say, an example - a married Mr.A tells a single Mr.B that he's having difficulties coping with present responsibilities (taking up the "dual-"/ "tri-roles" of being a husband and/ a dad at home, and being rank-and-file at work) in his life. Or a single Mr.C complains to Mr.B about the rising costs (or the lack of opportunities) in Singapore. (Note: it's all complaints and no advice on how to maneuver against 'the tide'.) The negativity in both Mr.A and Mr.C's stories isn't helpful at all, at least, not to someone who's planning to take a step further with someone he likes to start a life together with.
With all due respect, I disagree.
With the baby bonus offered, why no significant change? Is it really like Jack Neo said, "Money no enuf?"
So u mean if govt gave more money, there will be more married couples having mre babies? Or mre ppl wanting to get married and haf mre babies?
And if that is so.. how much money r we talking abt??
Seriously, if it really is money.. ppl would haf said so.. instead of voicing out on other issues.
In a way, it is about money - the amount of money required to offset uncertainty of future. Potential parents will worry about things like expenses, whether the kid can get a good education, job, etc, etc.
And I can tell you, after you start ruminating about it, the more able ones will realize why struggle in Singapore when you can get a potentially better return while working hard in other countries.
The National Population and Talent Unit likes to talk about FTs, etc. I for one would like to see their expressions become shifty-eyed when the opposition ask them how many Singaporeans have migrated since the PAP open the floodgates.
After have read what's the Old Guard has been pointing out on why the ratio of the Chineses, Indians and Malays . Whereby the Malays birth rate were the highest. It's simple. Not been racist on this issue because the Malays were able to have a 2nd wife or more if I'm not wrong.
This had infact increase their household earnings. If compared to the Chinese with a family of 2 Adults and 2 Children to 3 Adults and 2 Childrens . Correct if I'm wrong...
If so that can justify on the Malays birth rate ratio.
As broken down to percentage according to the levels . For example , those with financial difficulties , commitments and high achievers. I believe those lower class and middle class fall more in range on the first and second mentioned. Then within these 2 classes , those were groups which were willing to or wanted to have children. But to be honest and true , even more plans coming out to increase Baby Bonus , secure Manternity Leaves or Tax Relief ... etc were not enough to help ease the situation . Those who plan through will think if it's sufficient for expenses , educations .. etc.
Not forgetting inflation.
Who will willing to get the bait of that. The Goverment should or already know what Singaporeans were interested in...... If not wrong, CPF.
You think the riches and high achievers can contribute more to reproduce or those in lower and middle class group ?? So who will take the bait ??
If those MIW should consider on that. Think over it, were those subsidise enough to parent a child or children ?? Moreover , so will said it's still our own responsibilities . Not forgetting CPF was still the People's $$.
So look into giving families the flexibility to withdraw from CPF for parenting their children. Certain percentage can be use to ease the financial difficulties in a suggest period of time. This difinately is a better way to beat Baby Bonus , Tax Relief etc..
Since some Generations can only see but cannot touch CPF even till the day of retirement. Locking CPF telling Singaporens can live a longer life span of 80s years old , encourage longer or delay retirement age. But cannot solve the current issue of birth rate.
Also the hard truth is , do younger Singaporeans care if Majority are not make up of Singaporeans in future time instead of FTs?? To me , I don't care. My mindset were change into minding business at my own backyard. Why bother.
Lastly, you think Singaporeans interested in those bonuses or CPF ?? Also
Need to meet housing loans and retirement requirements than withdrawal is allow for access. So in the end is still a fair share of using our own $$ to parent our children instead of loosing billions in investments made not transparent to the People.
This in mind still a win win between the Goverment and the People. Stop making extra Ministries for million $$ minister . The fact still bounce on the reality which is CASH !!
This had infact increase their household earnings. If compared to the Chinese with a family of 2 Adults and 2 Children to 3 Adults and 2 Childrens . Correct if I'm wrong...
If so that can justify on the Malays birth rate ratio.
As broken down to percentage according to the levels . For example , those with financial difficulties , commitments and high achievers. I believe those lower class and middle class fall more in range on the first and second mentioned. Then within these 2 classes , those were groups which were willing to or wanted to have children. But to be honest and true , even more plans coming out to increase Baby Bonus , secure Manternity Leaves or Tax Relief ... etc were not enough to help ease the situation . Those who plan through will think if it's sufficient for expenses , educations .. etc.
Not forgetting inflation.
Who will willing to get the bait of that. The Goverment should or already know what Singaporeans were interested in...... If not wrong, CPF.
You think the riches and high achievers can contribute more to reproduce or those in lower and middle class group ?? So who will take the bait ??
If those MIW should consider on that. Think over it, were those subsidise enough to parent a child or children ?? Moreover , so will said it's still our own responsibilities . Not forgetting CPF was still the People's $$.
So look into giving families the flexibility to withdraw from CPF for parenting their children. Certain percentage can be use to ease the financial difficulties in a suggest period of time. This difinately is a better way to beat Baby Bonus , Tax Relief etc..
Since some Generations can only see but cannot touch CPF even till the day of retirement. Locking CPF telling Singaporens can live a longer life span of 80s years old , encourage longer or delay retirement age. But cannot solve the current issue of birth rate.
Also the hard truth is , do younger Singaporeans care if Majority are not make up of Singaporeans in future time instead of FTs?? To me , I don't care. My mindset were change into minding business at my own backyard. Why bother.
Lastly, you think Singaporeans interested in those bonuses or CPF ?? Also
Need to meet housing loans and retirement requirements than withdrawal is allow for access. So in the end is still a fair share of using our own $$ to parent our children instead of loosing billions in investments made not transparent to the People.
This in mind still a win win between the Goverment and the People. Stop making extra Ministries for million $$ minister . The fact still bounce on the reality which is CASH !!
Its common for men's libido to be affected stress and $$$ no enough....
Lanjiao cannot erect, no horny still where got mood to fuck and make babies?
Lanjiao cannot erect, no horny still where got mood to fuck and make babies?
On a certain level, I do agree that alot of coupels focus on the "money" factor when they consider on whether to have kids or not, and I am not aone to think that this is not a serious issue.
However, it is not as "simple", or as "trivial amount" as the baby bonuses offered by the current scheme of things that our HIGHLY paid ppl in govt came up with.
Besides the worry on whether they can provide sufficitnely for their kids.. from babyhood to perhaps University period.. or maybe even b4 marriage.. they might still haf to consider the other costs.. cost of spending time with kids.. cost of looking after them when they are sick.. or when they need help and advice. And then.. there is the worry on whether the kids will haf a good future for themselves.
Money plays a part cos imo, if couples don't see a good future for themselves.. who is to guarantee them that their kids can do better or even ok?
And.. (I stand to be corrected here) most of our malay brethren haf govt subsidies from the time they enter schools .. from what I remember.. my malay classmates didn't really pay school fees.. I don't know if it is still the case now.. but I have heard that even housing, for them.. is subsidized more..(again I stand to be corrected as I am putting this based on memory cos I got not much time to research liao.. haiz). Plus.. Muslims don't practice birth control measures. (this i noe for a fact)
But what I am upset about.. is that for all the talk on hiring the best and the brightest by our govt.. the best thing they can come up wif to entice Sporeans to haf more babies.. is the "baby bonuses"..?? That, to me.. is total failure.
Failure to address/identify the issues correctly, failure to set things in perspective and not projet your own ideas onto every situation, and lastly... FAILURE TO LISTEN AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE MISTAKES MADE IN THE PAST AND PRESENT.
Drastic situations usually call for drastic measures. If the govt still thinks that they can please EVERYBODY.. well.. they are then obviously living in their own fairy-tale world. If they want more couples to have more babies and start families early.. they need to implement LAWS that protect and benefit these group of people.. not just simple "gifts" and "temporary pocket money".
And they have to understand that BUSINESSES only seek one thing.. PROFITS! For the business men, profits is the one thing they aim for..nay.. the ONLY thing they aim for.. they don't care if this country is having less babies or more babies.. as long as they make profits.. they don't usually have complaints. A country shouldn't be run like a company or a business.. for you can't fire ur citizens or retrench them.. CAN YOU???
Policies.. or strategies that benefits the country will not always benefit businesses.. maybe not in a direct or clear way.. but if the govt thinks that they can ALWAYS please both sides.. well... KEEP DREAMING!!
It's the same with the gripes of citizens.. if the govt that they voted in don't or can't guarantee jobs for them.. then guess what.. when next election comes.. or in certain cases.. sooner.. those citizens who are affected.. and those who believe they WILL be affected sooner or later.. will vote the current govt out. So what if we start from scratch again? It's better than to sustain a crumbling building and hope you survive the eventual collapse.
Let's face it.. businesses won't support the idea of a 6month maternity (paid leave).. they just won't. Imagine the number of women that would be pregnant and taking 6month off when they deliver, if they know that employers CAN'T fire them? Nobody can promise that there won't be abuses to systems implemented.. but if there aren't laws.. what's there to protect the mothers from losing their jobs after they get pregnant.. or after they deliver?
I'm not saying that the govt HAS to make the 6months maternity leave a MUST and set a law in place.. but to really think of way or ways to make couples have less burden or worries when they decide to start families. Right now.. with the job market being so bad..(I just saw on tv "早安您好" that employers are not hiring grads who don't haf work experience.. wtf) and wif competition wif not only fellow Sporeans.. but wif FTs as well, being so fierce.. how secure can a couple feel about their future.. that they can start a family at all?
If the couple can't even believe that THEY can stay employed in the long term.. how then can they even consider having children?
What? First have kids.. then find job? If no job, then.. not only the parents suffer.. the kids will suffer as well.
All these considerations are REAL.. and in this present time and day.. the uncertainties are growing.
With no real wage increase for Sporeans for the past few years.. can you hope to stand the inflation and keep some for a rainy day?
I don't think so! So how then to start a family?
I only have one more thing to add.. the pappies seem to be at a loss.. and still in dreamland on a number of issues.. I believe they have lost touch with not only the people.. but the times.. and the way the present Sporeans are living their lives. They just don't listen.. and they just don't understand.
However, it is not as "simple", or as "trivial amount" as the baby bonuses offered by the current scheme of things that our HIGHLY paid ppl in govt came up with.
Besides the worry on whether they can provide sufficitnely for their kids.. from babyhood to perhaps University period.. or maybe even b4 marriage.. they might still haf to consider the other costs.. cost of spending time with kids.. cost of looking after them when they are sick.. or when they need help and advice. And then.. there is the worry on whether the kids will haf a good future for themselves.
Money plays a part cos imo, if couples don't see a good future for themselves.. who is to guarantee them that their kids can do better or even ok?
And.. (I stand to be corrected here) most of our malay brethren haf govt subsidies from the time they enter schools .. from what I remember.. my malay classmates didn't really pay school fees.. I don't know if it is still the case now.. but I have heard that even housing, for them.. is subsidized more..(again I stand to be corrected as I am putting this based on memory cos I got not much time to research liao.. haiz). Plus.. Muslims don't practice birth control measures. (this i noe for a fact)
But what I am upset about.. is that for all the talk on hiring the best and the brightest by our govt.. the best thing they can come up wif to entice Sporeans to haf more babies.. is the "baby bonuses"..?? That, to me.. is total failure.
Failure to address/identify the issues correctly, failure to set things in perspective and not projet your own ideas onto every situation, and lastly... FAILURE TO LISTEN AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE MISTAKES MADE IN THE PAST AND PRESENT.
Drastic situations usually call for drastic measures. If the govt still thinks that they can please EVERYBODY.. well.. they are then obviously living in their own fairy-tale world. If they want more couples to have more babies and start families early.. they need to implement LAWS that protect and benefit these group of people.. not just simple "gifts" and "temporary pocket money".
And they have to understand that BUSINESSES only seek one thing.. PROFITS! For the business men, profits is the one thing they aim for..nay.. the ONLY thing they aim for.. they don't care if this country is having less babies or more babies.. as long as they make profits.. they don't usually have complaints. A country shouldn't be run like a company or a business.. for you can't fire ur citizens or retrench them.. CAN YOU???
Policies.. or strategies that benefits the country will not always benefit businesses.. maybe not in a direct or clear way.. but if the govt thinks that they can ALWAYS please both sides.. well... KEEP DREAMING!!
It's the same with the gripes of citizens.. if the govt that they voted in don't or can't guarantee jobs for them.. then guess what.. when next election comes.. or in certain cases.. sooner.. those citizens who are affected.. and those who believe they WILL be affected sooner or later.. will vote the current govt out. So what if we start from scratch again? It's better than to sustain a crumbling building and hope you survive the eventual collapse.
Let's face it.. businesses won't support the idea of a 6month maternity (paid leave).. they just won't. Imagine the number of women that would be pregnant and taking 6month off when they deliver, if they know that employers CAN'T fire them? Nobody can promise that there won't be abuses to systems implemented.. but if there aren't laws.. what's there to protect the mothers from losing their jobs after they get pregnant.. or after they deliver?
I'm not saying that the govt HAS to make the 6months maternity leave a MUST and set a law in place.. but to really think of way or ways to make couples have less burden or worries when they decide to start families. Right now.. with the job market being so bad..(I just saw on tv "早安您好" that employers are not hiring grads who don't haf work experience.. wtf) and wif competition wif not only fellow Sporeans.. but wif FTs as well, being so fierce.. how secure can a couple feel about their future.. that they can start a family at all?
If the couple can't even believe that THEY can stay employed in the long term.. how then can they even consider having children?
What? First have kids.. then find job? If no job, then.. not only the parents suffer.. the kids will suffer as well.
All these considerations are REAL.. and in this present time and day.. the uncertainties are growing.
With no real wage increase for Sporeans for the past few years.. can you hope to stand the inflation and keep some for a rainy day?
I don't think so! So how then to start a family?
I only have one more thing to add.. the pappies seem to be at a loss.. and still in dreamland on a number of issues.. I believe they have lost touch with not only the people.. but the times.. and the way the present Sporeans are living their lives. They just don't listen.. and they just don't understand.
I applied for BTO in July, out of available 572 flats, there are 3.0 applicants for every flat.
So I received my Q number, 980. Nice. Unless 408 applicants decide not to select the flats, I dun think I stand any chance.
Thankfully this is only my 1st application, but I am not so sure how many tries I have gotta try before I can get my own flat, which has to add an extra 5 yrs to the time to build.
By the time, how to have babies?
So I received my Q number, 980. Nice. Unless 408 applicants decide not to select the flats, I dun think I stand any chance.
Thankfully this is only my 1st application, but I am not so sure how many tries I have gotta try before I can get my own flat, which has to add an extra 5 yrs to the time to build.
By the time, how to have babies?
You are one big spoilt brat. The Africans have no problems making babies in the most squalid of conditions and you need a gilded love nest before you can get it up???
You ought to be ashamed of yourself. 
how much do dose africans pay 4 their palaces? ... how loong do dey haf 2 wait in order 2 get 1? ...
You are one big spoilt brat. The Africans have no problems making babies in the most squalid of conditions and you need a gilded love nest before you can get it up???
Please show me where I can find this kinda place in Singapore, and I will gladly take up residence there and make my babies.
Sinkie women would rather have a car than a baby. The role models Sinkie women seek to emulate are Ho Ching and Saw Phaik Hwa, not some 黄脸婆 who stays home to take care of the kids.
women dun like cars ... try lv, gucci, kate spade ...
I read in interest and dismay at the latest report on suggested ideas to get Sporeans to produce mre babies...
2 winning parties.. the govt and the employers/businesses.. and all the burden still on the couples/parents
Why do I say that?
Firstly, allowing couples who are expecting or newly wed couples to rent HDB flats, altho relieving the concern of a roof and some space for intimacy seems to be addressed.. means that couples still haf to WAIT.. and see their chances.. and it doesn't address the basic question of AFFORDABILITY for housing. Who stands to gain most? HDB.. cos while couples wait for their flat application, they receive rental if couples decide to rent other HDB apts while waiting.. one wonders how much the rental rate will be..? Will it be the same as Budget hotels? Let's wait and see.
Second (I don't want to dwell on housing cos the govt didn't address the costs and affordability) is an idea to haf couples share maternity leave (4 months) between the male and female.. ie maternity and paternity.. now.. does that mean couples benefit? I can only predict the employers benefiting cos the women now haf lesser cos if this is passed.. then 4 months become 2 months.. meaning lesser time to reuperate.. lesser time to spend wif new born child.. Who's happy with this? The dads? Maybe.. but instead of getting some mre time offered.. they are getting a suggestion to "cut away the allotted leave of their spouses".. and SHARE... sheesh. A great idea.. FOR THE EMPLOYERS TO NOT GRIPE ABOUT WOMEN BEING AWAY FROM WORK TOO LONG.
Lastly.. giving more relief to employers .. nid I point out who benefits MOST?
Is this the best the group can come up with? Did they really LISTEN and get the fundamental needs and concerns of couples and parents taken into account?
To me.. this is only a SLIGHT improvement to a "quick-fix" solution.. they are looking one step ahead.. but not the BIG picture. Bringing up kids is not just putting couples into homes and getting them time from office to recover.. it is a LIFETIME resonsibility. People look at the future.. and if they don't feel that the future holds any good for them.. how can they feel secure bringing kids into the picture.
If houses now costs so much to buy.. can their children afford them later on.. when inflation is bound to push up prices even more? Prices of things in SG never dropped (I don't see it, do u?).. and since competition for jobs r getting increasingly fierce .. job security, which we ONCE heard of.. is like.. NON_EXISTENT anymore. Will their kids face an even bleaker future?
So.. my take on the reported suggestions is.. WTF.. how much are they getting paid ah? This is the BEST they can come up with?
CHEY!!!
2 winning parties.. the govt and the employers/businesses.. and all the burden still on the couples/parents
Why do I say that?
Firstly, allowing couples who are expecting or newly wed couples to rent HDB flats, altho relieving the concern of a roof and some space for intimacy seems to be addressed.. means that couples still haf to WAIT.. and see their chances.. and it doesn't address the basic question of AFFORDABILITY for housing. Who stands to gain most? HDB.. cos while couples wait for their flat application, they receive rental if couples decide to rent other HDB apts while waiting.. one wonders how much the rental rate will be..? Will it be the same as Budget hotels? Let's wait and see.
Second (I don't want to dwell on housing cos the govt didn't address the costs and affordability) is an idea to haf couples share maternity leave (4 months) between the male and female.. ie maternity and paternity.. now.. does that mean couples benefit? I can only predict the employers benefiting cos the women now haf lesser cos if this is passed.. then 4 months become 2 months.. meaning lesser time to reuperate.. lesser time to spend wif new born child.. Who's happy with this? The dads? Maybe.. but instead of getting some mre time offered.. they are getting a suggestion to "cut away the allotted leave of their spouses".. and SHARE... sheesh. A great idea.. FOR THE EMPLOYERS TO NOT GRIPE ABOUT WOMEN BEING AWAY FROM WORK TOO LONG.
Lastly.. giving more relief to employers .. nid I point out who benefits MOST?
Is this the best the group can come up with? Did they really LISTEN and get the fundamental needs and concerns of couples and parents taken into account?
To me.. this is only a SLIGHT improvement to a "quick-fix" solution.. they are looking one step ahead.. but not the BIG picture. Bringing up kids is not just putting couples into homes and getting them time from office to recover.. it is a LIFETIME resonsibility. People look at the future.. and if they don't feel that the future holds any good for them.. how can they feel secure bringing kids into the picture.
If houses now costs so much to buy.. can their children afford them later on.. when inflation is bound to push up prices even more? Prices of things in SG never dropped (I don't see it, do u?).. and since competition for jobs r getting increasingly fierce .. job security, which we ONCE heard of.. is like.. NON_EXISTENT anymore. Will their kids face an even bleaker future?
So.. my take on the reported suggestions is.. WTF.. how much are they getting paid ah? This is the BEST they can come up with?
CHEY!!!
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