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Those still debating whether SAF can be called in if PAP loses power...
- Thread starter CPT (NS) BRANDON
- Start date
i read with disbelief your assertion that your beloved PAP will never lose power. History has shown that regimes come and go. there will come a point in time when the populace will no longer put up with the oppression and a spark of revolt will be ignited. For peaceful singapore, that means more support for anything other than the PAP and this has already happened. What LKY has said in the past has ZERO bearing on the present and the future. He can talk all he wants, but he is just a toothless, dying despot today. To my mind, it would be a miracle if the PAP is still the majority in Parliament in 13 years time.
and people wonder why so many SAF people go into PAP.............
1. There is no oppression in Singapore.
2. There is therefore nothing to revolt against.
Sinkies like to complain a lot and turn minor issues into mountains. Singapore is in great shape and is one of the world's richest countries. It is the last place on earth for a revolt.
Even if a revolt was being planned, it would be postponed until after the latest Samsung or iPhone was released.
My point is , no they wont. Or maybe will if they are firing on people unrelated to them. But yes, besides the die-hard scholars and pro-LKY military men, this calling of the army (it cannot work for the RSAF or navy) will NOT work
Will you have the keep to the armskote? What if you will have to kill you best friend or even family member?
My point being, it is logistical impossible to achieve LKY's plan of calling in the army unless he really knew the results beforehand several years ago and brought back enough of the SAF's weapons from overseas to crush the revolt.
Also CPT (NS) Brandon, do you think the world will let him carry out the order?
Whatever it takes.
you are indeed cold hearted. I wouldn't want to be part of your family.
you are indeed cold hearted. I wouldn't want to be part of your family.
No need mobilise SAF for this matter! OPERATION CLEAN SLATE will put all of them in ISA at the whims & fancy of the LEEGime!
And I wouldn't want you either. I'd disown you in a flash with the sort of attitude you display towards my beloved govt.
hahaha....obviously you are another scare monger or a retard....
first u quoted out of context and now u try to dig a deeper hole..
what is your motive here??
trying to scare pple into continuing voting for papee or for opps leaders to chicken out from taking part in GEs??
why don't you repeat the old grandmother story that voting slips are marked and those who voted for opps will be identified and persecuted!!!
u are another idiotic empty vessel.
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To clarify the question that everyone is asking:
As a reservist officer, I hold the position of S1 in a NS battalion. Would I follow orders to open fire against fellow Singaporeans? Would I follow orders to assist in overthrowing a democratically elected government? The answer is no. However, I can tell you that many of the people who serve alongside me as reservists would not share this view. They would be too fearful of disobeying orders. They would just look out for their self-interest and try to "cover their ass". They do not even question whether something is right or wrong -- they just assume that if someone in authority gave the order, it must be right.
For instance, I knew of a 3SG who was asked by his RSM to cover up some corrupt dealings. The RSM would issue an order saying that all companies must return their printer toners to his office once they expired, and that if they failed to do so, they would not receive any new toners and would have to find their own way to get by without any ink. There is nothing wrong with this ruling, it is merely what one would call a "one-for-one exchange" policy. In fact, one can justify this by saying that it helps to conserve the environment through recycling, etc.
However, the RSM was collecting these used printer toners and then selling it to his friend who owns a stationery/office supplies company. For each toner, he can collect as much as $30. The 3SG told me that over the course of a year, the RSM collected more than 100 toners, and therefore earned more than $3000 which he pocketed himself. In fact, the RSM even used the money to treat the 3SG to an expensive seafood meal.
The 3SG did not even question the ethics of this. He simply obeyed the RSM's order and even personally assisted to ensure that all company clerks dutifully handed in their used toner cartridges to the RSM. He felt that if he went against this order, he would be punished. In fact, he said that the RSM could give him extra duties or even charge him for insubordination if he didn't comply!!
This is the true state of affairs in the SAF. I was a regular for 4 years. I know how things work on the ground.
Therefore I can tell you that while NOT ALL soldiers/officers would be willing to shoot Singaporeans or participate in a coup, there would definitely be SOME (the majority!!) who would just blindly follow orders. It doesn't matter what their views are (if they even have any).
As for the points raised about logistics of transporting tanks, weapons etc -- that didn't stop the CCP leaders did it?? They managed to mobilise the army to crush the civilian protests in a matter of days. It certainly did not take them a few years to mobilise the troops.
As a reservist officer, I hold the position of S1 in a NS battalion. Would I follow orders to open fire against fellow Singaporeans? Would I follow orders to assist in overthrowing a democratically elected government? The answer is no. However, I can tell you that many of the people who serve alongside me as reservists would not share this view. They would be too fearful of disobeying orders. They would just look out for their self-interest and try to "cover their ass". They do not even question whether something is right or wrong -- they just assume that if someone in authority gave the order, it must be right.
For instance, I knew of a 3SG who was asked by his RSM to cover up some corrupt dealings. The RSM would issue an order saying that all companies must return their printer toners to his office once they expired, and that if they failed to do so, they would not receive any new toners and would have to find their own way to get by without any ink. There is nothing wrong with this ruling, it is merely what one would call a "one-for-one exchange" policy. In fact, one can justify this by saying that it helps to conserve the environment through recycling, etc.
However, the RSM was collecting these used printer toners and then selling it to his friend who owns a stationery/office supplies company. For each toner, he can collect as much as $30. The 3SG told me that over the course of a year, the RSM collected more than 100 toners, and therefore earned more than $3000 which he pocketed himself. In fact, the RSM even used the money to treat the 3SG to an expensive seafood meal.
The 3SG did not even question the ethics of this. He simply obeyed the RSM's order and even personally assisted to ensure that all company clerks dutifully handed in their used toner cartridges to the RSM. He felt that if he went against this order, he would be punished. In fact, he said that the RSM could give him extra duties or even charge him for insubordination if he didn't comply!!
This is the true state of affairs in the SAF. I was a regular for 4 years. I know how things work on the ground.
Therefore I can tell you that while NOT ALL soldiers/officers would be willing to shoot Singaporeans or participate in a coup, there would definitely be SOME (the majority!!) who would just blindly follow orders. It doesn't matter what their views are (if they even have any).
As for the points raised about logistics of transporting tanks, weapons etc -- that didn't stop the CCP leaders did it?? They managed to mobilise the army to crush the civilian protests in a matter of days. It certainly did not take them a few years to mobilise the troops.
I am not a scare mongerer, nor am I pro-LKY or pro-PAP. I am merely stating facts. Those who claim that the PAP can be overthrown are being unrealistic. Those who suggest that there could be a popular uprising (like the Arab Spring) to overthrow the PAP are being even more unrealistic.
(1) In the first place, what you need to understand is that this isn't about the PAP. It is not the PAP that has a stranglehold on power. It is an inner circle of private interest groups. Do you think the owners of Far East Organisation, Hong Leong Finance, OCBC etc are not within this inner circle that truly calls the shots? do you think that the PAP can simply make decisions without consulting these powerful families? At the same time, do you think that peripheral PAP leaders (who are not entrenched in this inner circle of oligarchs) have any real power? Guys like Lui Tuck Yew, Chan Chun Sing etc are clearly not part of this oligarch's circle. Who do you think has the real power? Why do you think the likes of LKY, LHL and so on always turn up to their 80th birthday celebrations? It was a known fact that LKY was and still is a very close personal friend of businessman Sudono Salim (also known as Liem Sioe Liang) who spends a lot of his time in Singapore and has substantial investments here.
Similarly, in other countries, who do you think has more power? The policy makers (including cabinet members) or elite business families like the Rothschilds??
(2) Given that the "elites" are so powerful, do you think they would happily accept a government that does not safeguard their interests? Why do you think the PAP, despite knowing that things must change, are working overtime to deliver just enough change to pacify the people while trying as far as possible to maintain the status quo?? If say the WP came into power, do you think they can stay in power by totally ignoring these elites and even going against them? Thaksin was popularly elected by the Thais, and he was a very powerful politician and businessman himself. But he offended the elite families, and look what happened?
In the USA, it does not matter whether the Democrats or Republicans are running the country -- they are still beholden to these interest groups in one way or another!! The likes of Halliburton, General Electric, AT&T etc will always be looked after no matter who is in power.
(3) What I am really saying is that those who think that true change in Singapore is coming are just setting themselves up for a huge disappointment. To put it simply, I have given up on Singapore, and I think the only logical course of action is to migrate overseas to a more egalitarian/meritocratic society like Australia or one of the Scandinavian countries.
There is the bigger conspiracy and the smaller one. We can't get rid of the bigger one without global revolutions of middle class hunting down the rich. But the latter one, we can do it rather easily with the emergence of people's power.
You seem to think that if the PAP is voted out, everything will change overnight.
Two points here:
(1) People don't seem to appreciate just how difficult it will be to vote out the PAP -- at the moment people think that the task is 50% complete, but in my view it is more like 5%. Moreover, voting them out does not mean that they will be out of power. There are many things they can do carry on in power.
(2) People also don't seem to appreciate that voting the PAP out is not going to change things substantially. OK, so the WP comes in and runs the government -- and then what? You think the wealthy landlords will suddenly lower rents and allow small businesses to thrive? You think GLCs will suddenly be divested and we will have competition in various industries? You think the culture of wayang and 'cover ups' in all organisations large and small will change, and we will suddenly have a culture of graciousness, responsibility and ownership? Well, think again..
Oh great pessimist, I bow not to you
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