Only If Lim Chin Siong Had Become Sg PM!

[Adidas]

even if he is alive,i do not think he also can do much.
the mistake that the opposition did at that time,was to withdraw their MPs from the parliament.
else opposition should be able to build on it and who know we may have a different government.

 

[cass888]

The picture that emerged was one not quite the story that I heard and read growing up. In a nutshell, the Professor's account was that the people of Singapore wanted Lim Chin Siong as their leader but the British would not allow it and wanted Lee Kuan Yew instead.

The British must have known (or thought) that Lim Chin Siong is a communist. And if you think the British will just depend on what Lee Kuan Yew says, then you seriously underrate their MI6.

 

[PAP_agent]

Anyone who thinks that singapore would have been better under Lim is a fool! In the 50s and 60s this place was like the singapore of Pirates of the Carribean. A notorious whorehouse and land of sin for visiting sailors. And filthy, full of uneducated scum. Who else but our great helmsman cleaned everything up and set us on target to be an Asian powerhouse??

You want to see the alternate Singapore? Go to Batam. It was meant to emulate us but look at what it's become!

 

[scroobal]

Dear Scroobal

One just can't accept the fact that LKY used the British , rode the left, screwed the left faster using the british than the left could screw him through Chin Peng and the STC. His view of history is a romantic notion of an idealized LCS betrayed by an evil LKY in cahoots with the brits and the Tunku.

Chin Peng in his memoirs did admit indirectly to being in direct command and control of some elements in Singapore. The elements he named were however those which were already known. Interestingly enough whilst he was willing to name the entire chain of command in the whole of Penninsula Malaysia he left out Singapore as a black hole. I can't for one momement belief militarily or politically that in playing for keeps he did not have substantial influence in the SG of that era.

Locke

Bro, whether you liked it or not you summed it up well on LKY.

When it came to Singapore, Chin OPeng suddenly got amnesia. The communist network as I understand is still very strong amongst themselves based on camaraderie and the past but no longer on ideology and political agenda. One of the conditions on release from detention is prohibition of contacting others without permission. They found it hard and many disappeared shortly after release. The Association of ex-political detainees was partly to address it.

All those who authored books on the subject had agreed not to touch on the identities before they were granted interviews by these chaps. This group has nothing to do with Chin Siong and company.

Old man, Goh, Raja and Lee Khoon Choy were closer to this group then they were to Chin Siong and gang. After all Eu hid in Raja's house when the British were after him. It was Goh, after retirement that brought the communist and their families home to Singapore.

Within this group, there is a smaller faction that are ostracised for been turned around or giving up the fight in the early days.

What is even more interesting is the dialogue that old man kept with Deng on the Singapore and Malaysian Communist. When Chin Peng realised that Deng was fond of old man, the penny dropped. The closure of the CPM radio station on the request of the old man was the final straw.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Locke,

I recall Vivian himself implicitly acknowledged that LKY came off badly at that ill conceived telly dialogue with the Post 65ers. It showed how out of touch and disconnected LKY is with this critical group of Singaporeans for Singapore's future. And therein lies the problem with the PAPs. No one in the present PAP top hierachy has the balls to tell LKY the real objective truth i.e. when to STFU.

A clear eg. was the James Gomez incident during GE2006, when GCT initially had the good sense to publicly take the position "Let's move on" and return to campaigning on the issues instead of Gomez only to do a disappointing and shameful volte face the very next day after probably being given a bollocking by LKY to sing from the same hymn book.

Somehow the Opposition should try and capitalise on this apparent political archilles heel of the PAPs.

Cheers

Dear Porifio

The one's who are in parliament and who are old enough perhaps respect LKY excessively to tell him that he is irrelevant and a dinosaur. The one's out of parliament hate and seek to destroy him politically and character wise. Those younger one's like me just want to tell him to FO and tend the garden but that voice is not heard.
Locke

 

[Alu862]

Aiyah, LCS did not know how to play the political game. Chee thinks Lim was good. No politician is good.

Is Chee so white clean? Doesn't he have any skeletons in his closet?

 

[scroobal]

Locke,
No one in the present PAP top hierachy has the balls to tell LKY the real objective truth i.e. when to STFU.

They are holding back thinking that he will kick the bucket and it has been a long wait. Not out of respect but the backlash by cadre members (many who were born with undetactable blinkers and are loyal to a fault).

As much as Goh tried and succeeded in getting them to see his way during his time, apparently they have gone back to old man. Partly because old man is now more active at grassrrots level then during the 14 yrs that GCT held the reins.

There has been an attempt this year to break the cadre hold by allowing some sort of caucus to form.

Anyway, Toh Chin Chye has to carry this burden as he built the cadre system after the communist takeover of its branches prior to 59 and the attempt to unseat the moderates in the CEC. .

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Scroobal,

This is certainly an interesting nugget if it is indeed true.

Btw do you know who was the Commie double agent who was murdered while working for Eu, recall reading about it somewhere but can't quite remember the facts at the moment.

As for Lim Chin Siong & gang, oldie medic Singaporeans tell me of a time when Drs. Lim Hock Siew and Poh Su Kai encouraged young medics and nurses to join the 'Rakyat' and sweep the streets of Singapore, which did not go down to well with alot of the young medics who were more interested in getting into the nurses knickers

Cheers

Earlier than Eu, one notable Singaporean who was the Communist leader in Singapore was Wee Mon Cheng who was then known by the surname Hu. He subsequently became ambassdor to Japan. Life is indeed a mystery.

Anyway Zaid Zahari is certainly a communist.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

The fact of the matter is this:

LKY manipulated all parties; the British, Tengku, the United Front and its acolytes to get into power.

On balance, I fail to see what is so wrong about this since politics during that tumultous time in particular was an especially dirty and dangerous business.

Why cry over spilt milk when LKY clearly managed to outplay out wit and outlast all the other parties to transform Singapore into a relatively stable, peaceful and prosperous society?

Now what has happened to Singapore after say the late 1980s is something else altogether.

The declassified documents at British record office show otherwise. Harry Lee did not ride the "united front tiger" as claimed by LKY's paid scribes. LKY was the "chosen one", confirmed by his British handlers, including a British senior special branch officer in Singapore.

The departing British colonialists made "politics" dirty for Lim Chin Siong, the true leader of the people of Singapore. Harry Lee would have been HIStory if not for the British and the Malay aristocracy headed by the Tunku.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Well looking at Dr Chee, it would appear that Dr Chee is particularly fixated on LKY which I think is unwise and unhealthy in this day and age.

No one is "fixated". History is the barometer to understand the present and how to move into the future with confidence. Only those who spread falsehood, try to paint history as irrelevant to both the present and future.

 

[scroobal]

Scroobal,

This is certainly an interesting nugget if it is indeed true.

Btw do you know who was the Commie double agent who was murdered while working for Eu, recall reading about it somewhere but can't quite remember the facts at the moment.

As for Lim Chin Siong & gang, oldie medic Singaporeans tell me of a time when Drs. Lim Hock Siew and Poh Su Kai encouraged young medics and nurses to join the 'Rakyat' and sweep the streets of Singapore, which did not go down to well with alot of the young medics who were more interested in getting into the nurses knickers

Cheers

Hock Siew and Poh are not with Chin Siong's gang. I am still waiting for Hock Siew's book.

You must be referring to Lai, who Chin Peng took over from. He was the previous CPM leader for both Malaysia and Singapore and he resided in Singapore. He was of vietnamese extract.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

In short, LKY appears to have screwed and used anyone who was of any political use to him even his own loyal PAP old guard, save for his own immediate family and maybe Lim Kim San and those who died before he had the opportunity to screw them.

But then again politics is a dirty dangerous business, not for the idealists and righteous moralists who only see things in black and white.

Dear Scroobal

One just can't accept the fact that LKY used the British , rode the left, screwed the left faster using the british than the left could screw him through Chin Peng and the STC. His view of history is a romantic notion of an idealized LCS betrayed by an evil LKY in cahoots with the brits and the Tunku.

Locke

 

[Ah Guan]

You must be referring to Lai, who Chin Peng took over from. He was the previous CPM leader for both Malaysia and Singapore and he resided in Singapore. He was of vietnamese extract.

Lai Te was a triple agent who sold out both the MCP and the Brits. On the run after he was exposed, he met his deserving fate in the hands of red agents in Thailand.

 

[scroobal]

In short, LKY appears to have screwed and used anyone who was of any political use to him even his own loyal PAP old guard, save for his own immediate family and maybe Lim Kim San and those who died before he had the opportunity to screw them.

But then again politics is a dirty dangerous business, not for the idealists and righteous moralists who only see things in black and white.

Good observation and well put. Unfortunately Kim San's nephew Pang did not get the second chance that others got after an election's defeat.

 

[scroobal]

Lai Te was a triple agent who sold out both the MCP and the Brits. On the run after he was exposed, he met his deserving fate in the hands of red agents in Thailand.

You are right. He worked with the Japanese as well and he stole the party funds.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Hey thanks for the clarification, this is indeed the chap that I had in mind

Lai Te was a triple agent who sold out both the MCP and the Brits. On the run after he was exposed, he met his deserving fate in the hands of red agents in Thailand.

 

[Ah Guan]

Hey thanks for the clarification, this is indeed the chap that I had in mind

No prob. Lai Te's body was dumped in Chao Praya.... along with the other rubbish of Bangkok.

Now back to your question about a "successful leader who is/was an idealist" ... Was Mao a "successful leader"?

 

[chinkangkor]

Was Mao a "successful leader"?

Yes, but only up to 1956.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

On balance, I for one do not think Mao was a true idealist. For that matter neither is Castro nor was Lenin. Now Marx on the otherhand, maybe but then again he was never a true politician so he does not count in this regard

[Now back to your question about a "successful leader who is/was an idealist" ... Was Mao a "successful leader"?

 

[Ah Guan]

Yes, but only up to 1956.

Yeah... Therefore the tag of "successful leader" is relative.

Many Taiwanese still regard Mao as an evil dictator who brought the Chinese civilisation backwards.