Only If Lim Chin Siong Had Become Sg PM!

[chinkangkor]

If there are new revelations of facts, do all these have any implications for the National Education programme MOE currently conducts in our schools? Any updating or amendments needed?

Anybody familiar with the National Education programme?

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Porifio

The problem is that he wants to discredit LKY from begaining till the end. For them there is no half way measure, no " Ok thank you very much , you were great for singapore, here's a medal, , please FO and retire into history. Lets debate the mistakes which have led SG into its present state. " For them its " LKY the dictator and an evil one at that from start till the end



Locke

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Yes this appears to be the case to a certain extent. Ill conceived agenda.

Dear Porifio

The problem is that he wants to discredit LKY from begaining till the end. For them there is no half way measure, no " Ok thank you very much , you were great for singapore, here's a medal, , please FO and retire into history." Lets debate the mistakes which have led SG into its present state. For them its " LKY the dictator and an evil one at that from start till the end



Locke

 

[chinkangkor]

The problem is that he wants to discredit LKY from begaining till the end. For them there is no half way measure, no " Ok thank you very much , you were great for singapore, here's a medal, , please FO and retire into history. Lets debate the mistakes which have led SG into its present state. " For them its " LKY the dictator and an evil one at that from start till the end
Locke

Since LKY is still in the political arena, could you see LKY and Chee "fighting each other to the political death and doing the dirty to each other with LKY winning and luckily for SG at that" again?

 

[rodent2005]

Dr Chee appears to be fixated on these past figures from Lim Chin Siong to Chia Thye Poh to Zaid Zahari to Tan Wah Piow to even Vincent Cheng.

Funny you should say that because it was the PAP who has been talking non-stop about their past achievements.

 

[chinkangkor]

Chin Peng has denied that LCS was ever a member of his party.

Thanks for the info.

But all books that i've read writes that LCS was a leftist, so sometimes its quite confusing.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Chin

The fight to the death battle still rages on with "hatchet man" and " I do not hate LKY' Dr Chee. The question as always remains on what issues should this battle be fought on and I for one believe that it should not be based around discrediting LKY because that plays to the strengths of the PAP but rather telling him that he is to old and that he should just FO or as the brits would say write his memoirs and tend the garden.


Locke

 

[chinkangkor]

Dear Chin
The fight to the death battle still rages on with "hatchet man" and " I do not hate LKY' Dr Chee. The question as always remains on what issues should this battle be fought on and I for one believe that it should not be based around discrediting LKY because that plays to the strengths of the PAP but rather telling him that he is to old and that he should just FO or as the brits would say write his memoirs and tend the garden.
Locke

LKY attracts international attention. Who else in the PAP have that kind of prestige?

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Chin

So what if he has "international prestige ? " It just seems pointless to argue that LKY has "international prestige." therefore I must diminish his international prestige in order to destroy his domestic prestige. Whats the point ? Its a losing argument to begin with. Whether domestically or internationally in my view the argument should be " he's irrelevant , dinosaur of the past thank you very much and please fuck off, father of the nation etc here's a nice garden to tend." So what if he is Internationally a state's man ? Same argument goes domestically, " dinosaur of the past, thank you very much, more in touch internationally than domestically, please advise all the other people, but u are out of touch with citizen joe, please fuck off and tend the garden, here's a medal and eternal gratitude. "




Locke

 

[chinkangkor]

Dear Chin
So what if he has "international prestige ? " It just seems pointless to argue that LKY has "international prestige." therefore I must diminish his international prestige in order to destroy his domestic prestige. Whats the point ? Its a losing argument to begin with. Whether domestically or internationally in my view the argument should be " he's irrelevant , dinosaur of the past thank you very much and please fuck off, father of the nation etc here's a nice garden to tend." So what if he is Internationally a state's man ? Same argument goes domestically, " dinosaur of the past, thank you very much, more in touch internationally than domestically, please advise all the other people, but u are out of touch with citizen joe, please fuck off and tend the garden, here's a medal and eternal gratitude. "
Locke

International publicity helps to promote Chee's cause. That's perhaps why Chee is doing what he did.

 

[Ah Guan]

Pleaes show me a successful politician over the long term who is/was also a true idealist.

Before I answer your question... please tell me who was born with the tag of "idealist" on his/her forehead?

LCS was an exceptional orator whose speeches motivated the people. His career as a head of state didn't take off before Op Coldstore happened.

By the same token MM Lee was also a great speaker. Would that make him an "idealist" as well?

As for Lim Chin Siong and the other socialist lefties of the 50s/60s/70s, yes I agree their place in history should be acknowledged. They were afterall true nationalists and patriots at heart. Dr Kevin Tan appears to have started the ball rolling in this regard when he included a section on Lim Chin Siong in his book.

Yes - like I said, there are many patriots who have sacrificed their youth to build the nation. It is a national tragedy that their reputations have been whitewashed or even sullied today.

The other "socialist lefties"? Please ask those who have attended LKY's rallies in the 50s/60s - which arm did he raise to salute the people?

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Chin

It does to some extent, the only problem is I believe the "message" to be wrong and to focused on one man and to focused on discrediting that man



Locke

 

[Ah Guan]

Thanks for the info.

But all books that i've read writes that LCS was a leftist, so sometimes its quite confusing.

In those days, everyone who fought against the colonal masters were leftists.

Even LKY was a democratic socialist in those days.

 

[Alu862]

International publicity helps to promote Chee's cause. That's perhaps why Chee is doing what he did.

Excuse me, what recognition? Aung San Su Kyi get s the Noble Peace prize and the Congressional Gold Medal, every other activist--Nelson Madela, The Dalai Lama, Zimbabwe opposition members--have the support of the international community. Chee?--Some journalists, a couple of NGOs, and a "PRC are spies" turn coat traitor. What a range of international support.

 

[chinkangkor]

Dear Chin
It does to some extent, the only problem is I believe the "message" to be wrong and to focused on one man and to focused on discrediting that man
Locke

That one man is no ordinary man. LKY did his calculations, took numerous life threatening risk to be where he is today. No amount of discrediting can chip away one iota of his reputation and standing whether abroad or locally.

I would argue that what Chee exposes will only go to show how brilliance LKY was and still is, as a politician and statesman.

 

[chinkangkor]

Excuse me, what recognition? Aung San Su Kyi get s the Noble Peace prize and the Congressional Gold Medal, every other activist--Nelson Madela, The Dalai Lama, Zimbabwe opposition members--have the support of the international community. Chee?--Some journalists, a couple of NGOs, and a "PRC are spies" turn coat traitor. What a range of international support.

If I remember correctly, Chee has been awarded 'Defender of Democracy' before.

 

[Alu862]

If I remember correctly, Chee has been awarded 'Defender of Democracy' before.

Some award.

 

[Areopagus]

You are quite right...we might have been an "ordinary country" with two strong political parties - PAP vs Barisan regularly exchanging power at freely contested elections, we might have olympians like the 1956 Hockey team, Tan Howe Liang etc on a regular basis from our kampung boys and girls, we might have a comfortable, stable population of 2.5 million with a minimum wage so that construction work etc is paid a living wage and Singaporeans like Australians go for it instead of importing/exploiting foreign workers, we might have five or six universities producing educated Singaporeans who serve the whole of ASEAN, we would have young people who could speak to their grandparents in dialects while being conversant in Mandarin and English that they learned in school......

 

[Alu862]

You are quite right...we might have been an "ordinary country" with two strong political parties - PAP vs Barisan regularly exchanging power at freely contested elections, we might have olympians like the 1956 Hockey team, Tan Howe Liang etc on a regular basis from our kampung boys and girls, we might have a comfortable, stable population of 2.5 million with a minimum wage so that construction work etc is paid a living wage and Singaporeans like Australians go for it instead of importing/exploiting foreign workers, we might have five or six universities producing educated Singaporeans who serve the whole of ASEAN, we would have young people who could speak to their grandparents in dialects while being conversant in Mandarin and English that they learned in school......

Lots of what ifs...LCS may have been leftist but the world would have seen him as communists--we would be another Vietnam

 

[Einfield]

Perceptions. LCS did not know how to show that he was not communist, even if he was or was not a true communist. The Geopolitical factor was important. if Lim became PM, Singapore would have been another Vietnam. Cold War history tells you so.

Equality for all bull shit will not work, sounds nice especially for nation with poor majority, they are the easiest to brainwash and manipulate.

SG actually have a good model, we have accumulated enough to actually take care of the less fortunate, it's just we don't know who to help and how to help.

The next gov that take power, if that ever happen, don't really have to change much but look more into taking care of the welfare of Sinkies will do.