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Alu862
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Boo. the next govt has to show what it can do for Singapore's economy, defence, trade, health etc....
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Only If Lim Chin Siong Had Become Sg PM!
- Thread starter makapaaa
- Start date
Boo. the next govt has to show what it can do for Singapore's economy, defence, trade, health etc....
And has that really helped PAP? I don't think so.
Problem with Dr Chee is that he wastes too much time, effort and resources targetting ONE man and his familee, which at the end of the day has got him nowhere with the majority of Singaporeans. I noticed Dr Chee even 'used' his own daughter to try and shame LKY with a clip showing his daughter crying when she greeted him from one his self imposed stints in prison. I mean come on, this was clearly disingenuous propaganda that probably does nothing for the majority of Singaporeans. To outwit, outplay and out think the PAPs, I think Dr Chee has to first stop this misguided single fixation with LKY and his familee.
Problem with Dr Chee is that he wastes too much time, effort and resources targetting ONE man and his familee, which at the end of the day has got him nowhere with the majority of Singaporeans. I noticed Dr Chee even 'used' his own daughter to try and shame LKY with a clip showing his daughter crying when she greeted him from one his self imposed stints in prison. I mean come on, this was clearly disingenuous propaganda that probably does nothing for the majority of Singaporeans. To outwit, outplay and out think the PAPs, I think Dr Chee has to first stop this misguided single fixation with LKY and his familee.
The Japanese collaborator turned British lackey Harry Lee never took any risk. He was all for himself and ready to serve his foreign bosses.
Harry Lee was helped by his British colonial masters to come to power in 1959 despite the people of Singapore wanting Lim Chin Siong to lead them. Harry took Singapore into Malaysia in 1963 to save himself from being obliterated. Here, he was helped by the Malay aristocracy and again by his reliable British handlers.
Now, LKY is prostituting Singapore to foreigners and is allowed to remain in power by US imperialism whose Seventh Fleet is freely allowed to sail into Changi and discharge nuclear waste with immunity.
Look, the problem with this old chestnut is that by all accounts it is not absolutely entirely clear one way or other whether Lim Chin Siong and his gang were true Commies. Being a socialist and leftist (which they clearly were) does not necessarily mean one is also a Commie. LKY and his gang took the public position that they were "non communists". Lim Chin Siong and his gang declined to take a public position on this critical issue for reasons best known to them.
LKY being the crafty machiavellian devil that he was and still is, latched onto this equivocation and ambiguity for full political mileage by manipulating the British and Tengku (who were scared shit that Singapore may turn into red Cuba at Malaya's doorstep) into thinking that Lim Chin Siong and his gang were Commies and the rest as they say is HIStory.
LKY being the crafty machiavellian devil that he was and still is, latched onto this equivocation and ambiguity for full political mileage by manipulating the British and Tengku (who were scared shit that Singapore may turn into red Cuba at Malaya's doorstep) into thinking that Lim Chin Siong and his gang were Commies and the rest as they say is HIStory.
Just look back at the 'staged' telly dialogue between LKY and selected post 65ers before GE2006, where even under such a PAP controlled environment LKY came off as an old warhorse politician that appeared to have no meaning nor relevance to his post-65 audience. That should have told Dr Chee alot. Ignore LKY, at the end of the day LKY is now irrelevant to Singapore's long term future as it is inevitable that he shall be passing on soon. The future is what matters not the past.
"National" is a misnomer. It's PAP, rather Lee Kuan Yew education programme. It could only be replaced with the inevitable downfall of the corrupt, nepotistic and crony Lee regime.
With due respect, those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it!!
Critically observe the speeches and actions of a politician and you shall probably be able to ascertain whether he/she is an "idealist" at heart over a period of time.
From all accounts, people like Lim Chin Siong, Poh Su Kai, Lim Hock Siew, Puthucheary brothers et al appeared to be socialist idealists with apparent heavy leftist ideals.
Ong Eng Guan was also an exceptional chinese speaking orator, so much so that when he split from PAP he even beat PAP Jek Yun Thong at Hong Lim notwithstanding LKY and PAP big guns going all out to canvass support for Jek. But was Ong Eng Guan an "idealist"? Not at all.
As for LKY, well we all know by now that he is the antithesis to an idealist. LKY is a robust pragmatist utilitarian to the core.
Bro, I believe at the end of the day history shall probably be more kind to these old forgotten nationalists and patriots, just like LKY shall be more objectively judged by history as well in due course and not just based on HIStory in his memoirs and present PAP controlled mainsteam media
From all accounts, people like Lim Chin Siong, Poh Su Kai, Lim Hock Siew, Puthucheary brothers et al appeared to be socialist idealists with apparent heavy leftist ideals.
Ong Eng Guan was also an exceptional chinese speaking orator, so much so that when he split from PAP he even beat PAP Jek Yun Thong at Hong Lim notwithstanding LKY and PAP big guns going all out to canvass support for Jek. But was Ong Eng Guan an "idealist"? Not at all.
As for LKY, well we all know by now that he is the antithesis to an idealist. LKY is a robust pragmatist utilitarian to the core.
Bro, I believe at the end of the day history shall probably be more kind to these old forgotten nationalists and patriots, just like LKY shall be more objectively judged by history as well in due course and not just based on HIStory in his memoirs and present PAP controlled mainsteam media
That is not really true. At the end of the day, LKY rode the United Front Tiger, rode it hard, smart, craftily and well all the way to power in 1959 and the rest as they say is HIStory.
Politics is a dirty game. They are winners and losers. On balance, LKY appears to have been the right man, in the right place at the right time in Singapore's history.
The problem with LKY like all other politicians before and probably in the future as well (human nature cannot be changed) is that he did not/does not know when to let go of power. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Never a truer maxim.
Politics is a dirty game. They are winners and losers. On balance, LKY appears to have been the right man, in the right place at the right time in Singapore's history.
The problem with LKY like all other politicians before and probably in the future as well (human nature cannot be changed) is that he did not/does not know when to let go of power. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Never a truer maxim.
Ok don't "ignore" history BUT then again do not be so fixated on history as well at the expense of the present and future
Dear Porifio
The one's who are in parliament and who are old enough perhaps respect LKY excessively to tell him that he is irrelevant and a dinosaur. The one's out of parliament hate and seek to destroy him politically and character wise. Those younger one's like me just want to tell him to FO and tend the garden but that voice is not heard.
Locke
The one's who are in parliament and who are old enough perhaps respect LKY excessively to tell him that he is irrelevant and a dinosaur. The one's out of parliament hate and seek to destroy him politically and character wise. Those younger one's like me just want to tell him to FO and tend the garden but that voice is not heard.
Locke
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Alu862
Guest
As I said, the international perception also mattered. Lim was seen as a communist and nothing else. If he had manged to gain power, Britain would have stayed on or the US would have intervened like in Vietnam
I can't believe I missed this thread. Anyway....
Couple of things
Frankly, I think Lim and many of the leftist would have been good leaders in any cabinet but they were not politically savvy enough to survive. But turning Singapore to the present state would be near impossible as their ideology was staunchy workers and socialism to the core. I do recall one of the Puthucheary squeezing Tan Chin Tuan's balls over a strike in Raffles Hotel.
What would have been certain is that Towkay's in Singapore Chinese Chambers of Commerce would have put an end to Lim and Fong as they held these guys' business to ransom on too many occasions.
What is interesting is that many communist returned to Singapore and their children were given jobs in GLCs or govt bodies. Eu Chooi Yip, Singapore communist leader's 2 daughters were given jobs with SPH. Plen's son got an engineering job with Singapore Technologies etc
Earlier than Eu, one notable Singaporean who was the Communist leader in Singapore was Wee Mon Cheng who was then known by the surname Hu. He subsequently became ambassdor to Japan. Life is indeed a mystery.
Note: When the Marxist Conspiracy detainees applied to join the Singapore Ex-Political Detainees Association, they were rejected on the gorunds that they were not marxist, communist, lennist or any other version. Interesting. Its tells you the communist and the PAP govt have a quid pro quo arrangement. Anyway Zaid Zahari is certainly a communist.
Couple of things
- Chin Peng has avoided talking about Singapore Communist or the Singapore Town Committee as the controlling party for Singapore was then known. He has also claimed that they are not linked. The oral archives however from known communist will attest to it when released.
- During the Intensive debriefing session of Chin Peng at ANU, Canberra by Academics known for their expertise in this area inlcuding one British Special Branch Officer (retired) Chin evaded the Singapore communist on many occasions during the sessions.
- It is believed that it was done to protect the families who are believed to be doing well.
- What is established fact is that STC reported into Southern Johor Command of the MCP. Chin Peng would be primary decision maker.
- Lim and Fong are staunch leftist together with the putchucheary's, woodhull and gang. They however were not communists. They were certainly front that the communist used. They were certainly in their sphere of control. If Old man had not screwed Lim and gang, the communist would have.
Frankly, I think Lim and many of the leftist would have been good leaders in any cabinet but they were not politically savvy enough to survive. But turning Singapore to the present state would be near impossible as their ideology was staunchy workers and socialism to the core. I do recall one of the Puthucheary squeezing Tan Chin Tuan's balls over a strike in Raffles Hotel.
What would have been certain is that Towkay's in Singapore Chinese Chambers of Commerce would have put an end to Lim and Fong as they held these guys' business to ransom on too many occasions.
What is interesting is that many communist returned to Singapore and their children were given jobs in GLCs or govt bodies. Eu Chooi Yip, Singapore communist leader's 2 daughters were given jobs with SPH. Plen's son got an engineering job with Singapore Technologies etc
Earlier than Eu, one notable Singaporean who was the Communist leader in Singapore was Wee Mon Cheng who was then known by the surname Hu. He subsequently became ambassdor to Japan. Life is indeed a mystery.
Note: When the Marxist Conspiracy detainees applied to join the Singapore Ex-Political Detainees Association, they were rejected on the gorunds that they were not marxist, communist, lennist or any other version. Interesting. Its tells you the communist and the PAP govt have a quid pro quo arrangement. Anyway Zaid Zahari is certainly a communist.
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Alu862
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Alu862
Guest
Really? Where can one find this information? But yes, communists were communists to the Brits even thought they were diff communists. Lim did not know how to change his appearance
The declassified documents at British record office show otherwise. Harry Lee did not ride the "united front tiger" as claimed by LKY's paid scribes. LKY was the "chosen one", confirmed by his British handlers, including a British senior special branch officer in Singapore.
The departing British colonialists made "politics" dirty for Lim Chin Siong, the true leader of the people of Singapore. Harry Lee would have been HIStory if not for the British and the Malay aristocracy headed by the Tunku.
Ok don't "ignore" history BUT then again do not be so fixated on history as well at the expense of the present and future
No one is "fixated". History is the barometer to understand the present and how to move into the future with confidence. Only those who spread falsehood, try to paint history as irrelevant to both the present and future.
Bro, you can't have your cakle and eat it. Read your own comments.
Dear Scroobal
One just can't accept the fact that LKY used the British , rode the left, screwed the left faster using the british than the left could screw him through Chin Peng and the STC. His view of history is a romantic notion of an idealized LCS betrayed by an evil LKY in cahoots with the brits and the Tunku.
Chin Peng in his memoirs did admit indirectly to being in direct command and control of some elements in Singapore. The elements he named were however those which were already known. Interestingly enough whilst he was willing to name the entire chain of command in the whole of Penninsula Malaysia he left out Singapore as a black hole. I can't for one momement belief militarily or politically that in playing for keeps he did not have substantial influence in the SG of that era.
Locke
One just can't accept the fact that LKY used the British , rode the left, screwed the left faster using the british than the left could screw him through Chin Peng and the STC. His view of history is a romantic notion of an idealized LCS betrayed by an evil LKY in cahoots with the brits and the Tunku.
Chin Peng in his memoirs did admit indirectly to being in direct command and control of some elements in Singapore. The elements he named were however those which were already known. Interestingly enough whilst he was willing to name the entire chain of command in the whole of Penninsula Malaysia he left out Singapore as a black hole. I can't for one momement belief militarily or politically that in playing for keeps he did not have substantial influence in the SG of that era.
Locke
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