• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

GMS to leave NSP (as correctly predicted in SBF)

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Perspective

It take "perspective" and a sense of "gratitude" to remember those who you do not see. :_))) You can chose to remember Eric in 2016 but WILL u ? Still have not answered my question ? I believe remembering others if its a part of human nature helps to take the worst edge of one's ego


Thanks

Locke

Sorry I didn't know that was a question. If you are saying gratitude is a virtue, you are right. But to ask me to be grateful to Eric is out of place. I'm not passing the buck but that's for WP, not me. It's like asking me to thank JY Pillay for his services in SIA. Who am I?

For that matter, would Eric remember anyone? Those who gave him the chance to serve. Those who helped give him the 45% that qualified him to even smell the NCMP. It goes both ways. Understand?
 

brocoli

Alfrescian
Loyal
Scroobal,

Contrary to what you believe, there isn't a bit of resentment at all but just a simple perspective and analysis. In fact, it will just demonstrate how silly if everybody just want to go for 3 corner fight in the next GE.

You are right in that sense that it is pointless to bitch about the last GE but one will never know the future without first understanding the past. Well, if you think this is just pure "bitching", then you could just ignore.

Naturally, as the biggest opposition party, there will be higher expectation from WP. I thought people would only be overwhelmed by the victory and success for a couple of months but it seems that people are just senseless after half a year.

What I have put up is an analysis why opposition as a whole, WP included, should not be too happy about GE2011 results. The cup is either half full or half empty but in this cup, there are really less water in the cup.

It is understandable that people tend to get very excited after a long drought and when given just a bit of water, they are overwhelmed with joy and ecstasy. However, one should realize that if such emotions make you start to make your head over swell, there will come a day the goodwill will be eroded and the fall will be hard and hurting.

WP has the biggest and strongest brand name. Though all its results have maintained at least above the national average 40% but the truth is, almost half of the constituency contested had results just slightly above 40%. It means that good branding alone isn't good enough to capture a win. The middle ground is still very particular about candidates. To put it bluntly, any other parties without that good branding could well get that average result or even better results if they have put up strong candidates. SDP's Holland Bukit Timah team is the most important example as SDP has suffered most in terms of being smeared but yet, as long as it could put up good candidates, it could just overcome such handicap in branding.

Thus, the point is simple. There is little reason for WP to be arrogant and start to throw its weight around. WP cannot assume that it could just elbow its way and try to fight 3 corner fights using its 3rd rate teams. It might be lucky this time round but luck is just an uncertain element.

Of course, there will be people like you who will doubt what I say and brush it aside as my "resentment", so be it. The day will come when the results will prove my point.

Last but not least, politics is about perception. Brand perception, perception of candidates etc. When I say "3rd rate WP team", I don't really mean that the candidates are "lousy" in character, personality, ethics or whatever. It is just that either the candidates don't have the flare or the strategy applied by the party has deliberately put them out of limelight which result the perception or impression of "nobody".

Just look back, how much focus or media attention was given to WP MK team? How much rally speeches were made by the candidates or how much TV exposure, commentary or interviews were given to MK team?

Apparently it is clear that the MK team is not meant to score high point, least about fighting to win. They are just treated as place chopeing team, just like tissue used to chope place. Most likely the tissue paper will be thrown away after used.

Ramseth has tried very hard to say Rahizan has managed to "swing" the Malay votes. But the truth is, this is happening all around the island. This may not have anything to do with Rahizan, just that PAP has pissed off the Malays.

Goh Meng Seng

you are really a 1st rate IB.... you keep trying to frame the reality such that it sarpork your POV..

who assume that WP is overwhelmed with joy and ecstasy...

I cant speak for WP but I dun think any opp sarporker or WP themselves is under any illusion that 5 yrs later will be easy ...

you keep trying to frame it as if WP think it is the govt already which is not true... all the candiates are still active on the ground cept for eric whereas ... NSP 10kkj team, 1 in Oz, 1 in HK..... Abdul salim and yourself letting membership lapse/...
WTF

Goh Meng Seng said:
There is little reason for WP to be arrogant and start to throw its weight around. WP cannot assume that it could just elbow its way and try to fight 3 corner fights using its 3rd rate teams. It might be lucky this time round but luck is just an uncertain element.

statement like this frame the situation such that those people who dunno what is going on will think :

1) WP is arrogant and start to throw its weight around
2) WP cannot assume that it could just elbow its way and try to fight 3 corner fights using its 3rd rate teams (This statement itself asssume that WP team are third rate)


in the meantime you do not substantial your statement with proof

these are like "where did you beat your wife?" kind of statement...

as you yourself say MK team is 3rd rate or other WP team but not 3rd rate by itself...



WP win ALjunied because it put all its guns in 1 team... so there is ofcourse a difference in quality of the team (that is understandable, doesnt mean the team itself is 3rd rate)

on the other hand your EPIC failed strategy of spreading all your top guns around mean that no 1 NSP team look 3rd rate to another NSP team but when stand alone, all the NSP team actually look 3rd rate by themselves, especially next to NMK team

when talk bout credential. you failed cause MK team are all highly qualified professionals with the exception of the lao jiao..

and the part about elbowing its way and try to fight 3 corner fights is especially hypocrite when you take in RP members and then take KJ ground.... no1 flame you so why are you flaming WP

you still haven rebut ram pt about BSTPY and 10kkj.... who is the 1 who think they have the right to all the grounds ???
 
Last edited:

lockeliberal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Perspective,

Actually I believe Eric does remember all those who tried to help him in ways smalls and big. But then again my view if if the Party "chooses" or gives you a chance to serve, One should not go overboard and believe that one owe's the party your life, and your undying devotion and loyalty . A party choses a candidate because it believes it can benefit from that choice and a candidate choses a party likewise. Ita mutual I use you and you use me arrangement, politics at its best.

And yes you are passing the buck , can you "remember" those you do not see ? Perhaps not GMS , but even Eric.



Thanks

Locke



Sorry I didn't know that was a question. If you are saying gratitude is a virtue, you are right. But to ask me to be grateful to Eric is out of place. I'm not passing the buck but that's for WP, not me. It's like asking me to thank JY Pillay for his services in SIA. Who am I?

For that matter, would Eric remember anyone? Those who gave him the chance to serve. Those who helped give him the 45% that qualified him to even smell the NCMP. It goes both ways. Understand?
 

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
NSP 10kkj team, 1 in Oz, 1 in HK..... Abdul salim and yourself letting membership lapse/...

Not regarding the others but notice that the same people who went from WP to NSP and now left NSP, the village idiot refers to high turnover when they move from WP to NSP, but the same people who left NSP, he consider as not high turnover.
 
Last edited:

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Perspective,

Actually I believe Eric does remember all those who tried to help him in ways smalls and big. But then again my view if if the Party "chooses" or gives you a chance to serve, One should not go overboard and believe that one owe's the party your life, and your undying devotion and loyalty . A party choses a candidate because it believes it can benefit from that choice and a candidate choses a party likewise. Ita mutual I use you and you use me arrangement, politics at its best.

And yes you are passing the buck , can you "remember" those you do not see ? Perhaps not GMS , but even Eric.
Thanks
Locke

I remember Eric as friend doesn't mean feel grateful of his work in WP. Well, Eric certainly didn't remember LTK or Sylvia Lim. Don't say they never help him. So who you can remember? Do you remember and feel grateful to Ti Lik? Why don't you look him up. You were badmouthing him like nobody business. Don't look at the speck in other eye and forget the plank in your own.

Other than the mutual understanding part, the other argument about remembering everyone is weak.
 
Last edited:

lockeliberal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Perspective,

Not "grateful." but just remembering his work and acknowledging his part however small well perhaps medium. Life work, business changes your "perspective" and yes I would remember and acknowledge the work that CTL did. I would just say this that where you and I differ is that you see Eric as being given "something" by the party leadership and for which he should remember and be grateful. I see the underlying dynamics as political, as in Eric and LTK and SL were using each other for their own political calculations and benefit.




Cheers


Locke




I remember Eric as friend doesn't mean feel grateful of his work in WP. Well, Eric certainly didn't remember LTK or Sylvia Lim. Don't say they never help him. So who you can remember? Do you remember and feel grateful to Ti Lik? Why don't you look him up. You were badmouthing him like nobody business. Don't look at the speck in other eye and forget the plank in your own.

Other than the mutual understanding part, the other argument about remembering everyone is weak.
 

Forvendet

Alfrescian
Loyal
Please guys, don't derail the train with Eric Tan or Chia Ti Lik. The driver of the train is Goh Meng Seng. Just as I've expected, the master strategist captain is right on track out of NSP into political retirement village. He thought the RP defection was a good catch. The RP defectors promptly dislodged him as a bad latch.
 

Bigfuck

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Like I said GMS has a disease of the brain that could be permanently detrimental. Such assertions or good bad or story simulations are as useful or useless as you want it to be. When he talks about statistics, does he even have the financial resources to do one? If he does, it should be made publicly available, with the testing method and sampling size made transparent. This would already be a plus point against the government ones. He is just masturbating a scenario and calling it statistics and then use the phrase statistically speaking. It is clear where he stands now for objective analysis (facts and figures) versus politicking in the subjective way. Time to move on to other interesting threads.
 

wwabbit

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I have said it and will say it again. As long as WP is serious in winning and send their best or even second best team to contest, even if they meet with 3 corner fight, I will give them all my blessings. But if it is just sending 3rd rate team just to be tissue chopeing seats, then that's really bad practice.

If the WP believes that it is in their own best interest to compete in MK to achieve their long-term goals, how can it be bad practice? You are simply making this up to be "bad practice" and calling it an act of "chopeing seat" only because it goes against your wishes. Here's some news for you: the WP is not obligated to make you happy. If you don't get want you want, live with it, or put up your own team to fight against them, because you're not going to get sympathy from anyone whining about it.
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
That's the point. Party's interest above all... even National interest in increasing the chances for more opposition members (including those from other opposition parties) to get into parliament. That's bad practice. I rest my case.

Goh Meng Seng


If the WP believes that it is in their own best interest to compete in MK to achieve their long-term goals, how can it be bad practice? You are simply making this up to be "bad practice" and calling it an act of "chopeing seat" only because it goes against your wishes. Here's some news for you: the WP is not obligated to make you happy. If you don't get want you want, live with it, or put up your own team to fight against them, because you're not going to get sympathy from anyone whining about it.
 
Last edited:

wwabbit

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
That's the point. Party's interest above all... even National interest in increasing the chances for more opposition members (including those from other opposition parties) to get into parliament.

You're saying your team could have beaten the PAP if they went into MK?
It's funny that you can call WP out for looking out for their own interest above all. Surely you remember what happened with Mr Tan Kin Lian?
 
Last edited:

Ramseth

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
That's the point. Party's interest above all... even National interest in increasing the chances for more opposition members (including those from other opposition parties) to get into parliament. That's bad practice. I rest my case.

On the contrary, WP places national interest first for more opposition members in Parliament. It has forgone earlier plans to contest B-TP and Tampines for CST and you. CST failed to win mostly because of his age and health and internal party revolt causing voter apprehension. You failed to win because you let the RP defectors distracted you and spread NSP resources too thin. Where else if not M-K do you expect WP to contest with the number of candidates and manpower?
 
Last edited:

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
I have said it quite a number of times, Marine Parade is just at the corridor of Aljunied and East Coast. It would be the most natural choice for WP to "chope" for future expansion. Well, blinded by the fear of GCT's "popularity", WP didn't choose to go there. Well, WP is more afraid of GCT than having 3 corner fight in MK? Kind of strange strategic considerations.

In terms of resources, it would be PERFECT to contest in Marine Parade which is really JUST NEXT TO Aljunied and East Coast. MK? It is NEVER near to any places WP was contesting.... well, unless people have a weird way of looking at geography.

I don't think WP is SHORTAGE of candidates... well, never mind, I have to prove the very point that it is political and strategical ill judgement on WP's part in missing MP and falling for MK.

Goh Meng Seng





On the contrary, WP places national interest first for more opposition members in Parliament. It has forgone earlier plans to contest B-TP and Tampines for CST and you. CST failed to win mostly because of his age and health and internal party revolt causing voter apprehension. You failed to win because you let the RP defectors distracted you and spread NSP resources too thin. Where else if not M-K do you expect WP to contest with the number of candidates and manpower?
 

Ramseth

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I have said it quite a number of times, Marine Parade is just at the corridor of Aljunied and East Coast. It would be the most natural choice for WP to "chope" for future expansion. Well, blinded by the fear of GCT's "popularity", WP didn't choose to go there. Well, WP is more afraid of GCT than having 3 corner fight in MK? Kind of strange strategic considerations.

In terms of resources, it would be PERFECT to contest in Marine Parade which is really JUST NEXT TO Aljunied and East Coast. MK? It is NEVER near to any places WP was contesting.... well, unless people have a weird way of looking at geography.

I don't think WP is SHORTAGE of candidates... well, never mind, I have to prove the very point that it is political and strategical ill judgement on WP's part in missing MP and falling for MK.

I've also said many times before, the natural extension of Aljunied is Tampines. Gave that up for you was already professional courtesy. End of the day, the matter is that you still feel that WP "forced" NSP to contest Marine Parade. It was also a good result above 40%, in fact a few basis points higher than yours in Tampines. What's there to complain about? Even CSM, Pritam and Faisal couldn't be expected to win first time if not for Sylvia already NCMP and LTK joining the team.

If you want to talk about past NSP groundworks in M-K, none of those in the NSP Marine Parade team had done any groundworks here. They were with RP in the west. Nobody in WP feared GCT. There's no GCT factor. In fact, GCT himself has also become a liability with his age factor and expectation of retirement factor. The voters aren't stupid. The contest in Marine Parade was all about the young rookies, nobody even bothered to mention GCT, whether media or public.
 
Last edited:

groober2011

Alfrescian
Loyal
I am puzzled why everyone is bickering outside the gates of Parliament when the doors has already been shut? The next time anyone has a chance to enter will be after the 2016 elections. Why don't everyone go home and start planning and not say too much about why, what, who and whatever? Revealing oneself is not going to help anybody who planned to contest in 2016, except to feed opponents with information about oneself and whatever weaknesses. If this is an ego trip, then IMO it is not a good thing to do. It would be best to keep one's thoughts to oneself, and discuss with confidentiality only with those who will fight alongside with you in 2016.
 

CakeLengKia

Alfrescian
Loyal
I believe that nsp and wp have swapped Tampines grc and Mk grc during negotiation time in which gms did mentioned that he Was not the one doing negotiations
 

CakeLengKia

Alfrescian
Loyal
To be fair to gms, he did led nsp to the best results in their history during the GE 2011.

Just think of it, 19 years ago they lost their deposit in the marine parade 4 corner fight BE but now they won 40+% votes in the same grc

If he is able to form a team with him, tony tan, hazel poa, Nicole Seah and one Malay candidate in Tampines they should have won
 
Last edited:

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
End of the day, the matter is that you still feel that WP "forced" NSP to contest Marine Parade.

WP forced NSP to go MP? This is news to me. The chaps were boasting that they wanted to test GCT's myth of "strength". Of course, the Nicole-Tin factor added some points, but it wouldn't be right to think NSP went to MP in the same way WP or RP went to AMK. I don't know about Nicole, but Ivan and Cheo will never step into a place they think they cannot win.

Tin is the cause and she obviously knows it. Why is she seen working so hard now? Since already won, just sit there. I think PAP was really lucky not to have sent Tin into East Coast. Else, it would be WP's lucky day (or unlucky day, since they would have to manage 11 seats at once).
 

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
You're saying your team could have beaten the PAP if they went into MK?
It's funny that you can call WP out for looking out for their own interest above all. Surely you remember what happened with Mr Tan Kin Lian?

Unanswered: NSP gave up the only constituency that they could win, since it is established that they did not win the other 8 GRCs and SMCs. Does that make sense?
 

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
did led nsp to the best results in their history during the GE 2011.

That reminds me of one funny thing I heard - that Malay vote swing for WP was also across the board for all parties, but only NSP had their best result in history when according to uncrunched records WP, SPP all achieved best result to date.

And with no offence to you, there's a slight incoherence to your statements as well. You recognise that one who is not involved in negotiation, decisions, candidate fielding, led the party in the election? I thought all these negotiations and decisions to accept the terms of negotiation should be done by a leader(s) most deserving the accolade of leading NSP to the best results. Which I narrow to ST, TCK, YWY, CN etc. the collective old guards as Scro puts it.

Just think of it, 19 years ago they lost their deposit in the marine parade 4 corner fight BE but now they won 40+% votes in the same grc

If he is able to form a team with him, tony tan, hazel poa, Nicole Seah and one Malay candidate in Tampines they should have won

Do note that a four corner fight and a straight fight give you different results. You are saying if WP pulled out of Punggol, Desmond will get 4% and Palmer will get 96%? Makes sense?
 
Last edited:
Top