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Failing organs of govt and the SAF

Yes, the SAF is in the same system and so in a sense there are many examples that it has already failed. Look, if Pinky had not become PM, he would probably be directly responsible now for any one of these fuckups. But becos of who he is, the system has to be created in such a way that he is cocooned by many layers of protection. See? Even now, how many of his Ministers have failed and yet the bullets bounced off his Teflon coat. I am waiting for a whistleblower or a Singapore Snowdon to blow the cover off the SAP cockups.

Malaysia's present problems are due to a race-based political system; Singapore's are due to family based.

Do not laugh at Malaysia. Singapore may well laugh last.
 
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The SAF will fail when really tested. Whatever capabilities we have is for show only. By the time clearance is sought for whatever course of action or response, game over. Scholars should remain in the universities or in R&D. Not messing up the uniformed services.

they are't scholars. Scholars produce academic research. These people merely pass tests with high marks. And more often than not, they dont need the scholarship to study overseas.
 
Yes, the SAF is in the same system and so in a sense there are many examples that it has already failed. Look, if Pinky had not become PM, he would probably be directly responsible now for any one of these fuckups. But becos of who he is, the system has to be created in such a way that he is cocooned by many layers of protection. See? Even now, how many of his Ministers have failed and yet the bullets bounced off his Teflon coat. I am waiting for a whistleblower or a Singapore Snowdon to blow the cover off the SAP cockups.

Malaysia's present problems are due to a race-based political system; Singapore's are due to family based.

Do not laugh at Malaysia. Singapore may well laugh last.

He was responsible for the Cable Car rescue cock up.
 
We have seen a number of established organs of government fail dramatically in the last 2 years and. I wonder if the SAF which takes up the largest chunk of the budget year in and year out is actually functional.

Here is a summary of the recent significant failures that have no prior precedence since the PAP consolidated itself in the early 70s

1. The White Paper - seminal for all the wrong reasons. It caught everybody by surprise and the first clear sign that the leadership and the scholars were so far removed from reality. The chasm was tangible. Were there no views taken from the grassroots which are managed by PA. Baey's $2.50 nasi Padang and discounted Bandung further nailed the detached factor as an issue. So who the PAP talk to when they hold the meet the people sessions.

2. The PRC bus strike - the reason the union chief carries a cabinet rank is not to add to the decor. His single most important task is to keep the industrial peace, a attribute we sell to foreign investors. So what went wrong? NTUC has a long established intelligence arm which is not well known but it is there. The union reps are the best paid and those in NTUC admin grade mirror the Alpha salary scale. So what are they paid to do.

3. The SPF debacle in Little India - jammed radio communications is not going to cut the mustard. The senior commanders were there but either had no idea what to do and had no spine to move. Only a TP rider and Cisco officer showed courage. No leadership, no clue and no idea how to do crowd control - basic policing role. More concerning is their incoherent testimony at the COI giving credence that they are not up to the task.

4. SMRT Rolling Disasters - the lady was removed, they brought in an ex defence chief and PS. So we are looking at cream de la cream. There is nothing higher rank wise. He was given an open cheque book and he picked and chose presumably the best from SAF. And it got worse. And the only civilian local in the new team quit abruptly without a job. He then decided that semantics similar to VB ponding would be the way to go. A service disruption is when the train stops and not when it crawls????

5. Hospital beds under a makeshift tent. Personally I felt that this was indeed the shocker. Nobody ever imagined that we would ever come to this. We are now going into the realms of a field hospital. Gan's parliamentary responses was not only unacceptable but it was bordering on the ridiculous. When Andrew Chew as Head of the Civil. Service was tasked to defray the cost of the medical burden and to shift it to some extent to the patient, his initial 7 % decades ago must have conjured images of a modern and first world vision not beds under a tent which was never the case in the past.

That's begs the question is the SAF all that it made up to be. Like the SPF will it fail in its basic role. Will our jets fly, will our leaders and their families be around, will our commanders wait, will the communications fail, can the tanks be brought back in time, etc

SAF leaders cannot be far removed from those same scholars that went to the same school and did the white paper, managed labour relations, trained our Police officer etc. They are part of the same system or what makes them different. The transparency report on procurement is a worry and maybe symptomatic of the issues within.

Mind you all these after the PM apologised and promised to fix the shop.

The most discouraging episode to date is the hospital in a circus tent and the shrugging response of Gan and Khor to this. It was like they were saying " So what ? We found beds for them right ?". No pledge to do better.

As for the military, I wonder about this myself. On the officers, real soldiers (combatants not administrators) come from a family with military traditions or have this in their sights from an early age. They do not come to this through 4 As. Needn't say more. For the soldiers, If they have to question what they are defending, we are sunk. The SPF is not the SAF , but we saw a trailer for what might happen in a real emergency. Consulting text books, waiting for authorization, squeamishness and let's face it, no guts.
 
The SAF will fail when really tested. Whatever capabilities we have is for show only. By the time clearance is sought for whatever course of action or response, game over. Scholars should remain in the universities or in R&D. Not messing up the uniformed services.

Totally agree w bro GD............


Get the fuck out of trying to run railways or dealing with global derivatives or doing high level policy or management....if you were meant to do such fucking things then stop running around in a fucking uniform for 20 years first.....it adds no fucking value to any organisation that you are joining later.....


Wtf!
 
We have seen a number of established organs of government fail dramatically in the last 2 years and. I wonder if the SAF which takes up the largest chunk of the budget year in and year out is actually functional.

That's begs the question is the SAF all that it made up to be. Like the SPF will it fail in its basic role. Will our jets fly, will our leaders and their families be around, will our commanders wait, will the communications fail, can the tanks be brought back in time, etc

.

The emphatic answer to your question is NO, the SAF will suffer an epic failure worse than the SPF's Little India incident. THe bottom line reason why is that the SAF leadership is not made up of professional soldiers, but of political appointees waiting in the wings for their eventual posts in some GLC or a Ministry. You need professional career soldiers, especially in an army with such a large budget as that of SIngapore. You used to be able to find professional soldiers starting from the Lt. Colonel/Col. rank in the SAF, but even at that, they are rapidly being replaced by SAF scholars. Now, I think professional soldiers will be found at the Major rank and below. Of course, for the rank of General and above, its practically all scholars now.

This can be all blamed on Lee Con You and not Gay Loong as some posters allude to here. This goes back to the days when Wooden was installed as caretaker PM. The senior cadre in the PAP was very reluctant to see Gay Loong succeed as PM right away, and were in favour of
Wooden. Since Wooden had the popular support of the cadre, Con You had to devise a way where Gay Loong could get the support that he needed. SO, hence the long term plan was to take scholars on the side of Gay Loong, give them a SAF scholarship, send them to some good schools on scholarships and run them thru the SAF as fast as possible. Hence, when they become Generals and enter politics, there is an illusory sense of legitimacy to their ministerial positions. In reality, these people have no intention of making the army their career and therefore have no combat or operational experience.

The first generation of SAF leadership and people like Winston Choo were really professional soldiers. Although Winston was a PAP stooge, it still remains that he had no ambitions to run a GLC or a Ministry. You will notice the original philosophy of the SAF weapons procurement versus the philosophy today. The original SAF leadership would order equipment that were value for money and good enough to do the job that needed to be done. They would order the AMX-13 light tanks because they know the infantry needed mobile fire support and some form of tank versus tank capability. And also because the roads and bridges back than did not support 60 ton tanks like the Leo 2. These tanks were bought in carcass form, and SAE did the refurbishment to bring them up to snuff. Same goes for the Douglas A-4 Skyhawks, C-130, etc. New stuff that we bought we relatively cheap F-5Es, and added to by used purchases later. AFter these scholar Generals started taking, over value for money was replaced by "lets get the shiniest newest toy we can buy regardless of the cost". Imagine our F-16s and F-15s are even more capable than the USAF's! Everything we buy today is almost new, and very expensive.

Using the Skyhawk as an example, its principal role in the SAF was as a CAS (Close Air Support) aircraft. This is still a vital role that is still needed today. Its so vital that the US still retains the A-10 Thunderbolt 2 in the role long after its supposed retirement date. The US MArines use their AV-8 Harrier 2 for the same purpose. Well, we don't have this Skyhawk anymore. The Skyhawks cost less than USD$2 million back than, and we will have to now use a USD$30 million F-16 Block 52 on close air support.

But the main point I have to make here is no matter how new your weapons are, or how many of them you have, it will not win you the war if you have poor leadership or generalship. There are many precedents in history when a great leader can lead an army inferior in size and weapons to victory against a vastly superior force. Alexander the Great at Gaugamela is a good example. A good General is a student of war, and a dedicated strategist. He has studied all the famous battles, gone to all the command colleges and studies the enemy assidously. Our scholar generals have not done so. Look at all the Universities that our scholar generals went to. Cambridge, Harvard, etc. Did any of them go to Sandhurst? West Point? Should not a future General, regardless of the country he is from, be attending these military schools? That tells you right there that their minds are not in the game. They are just using the SAF to mark time till their appointments to a Ministry.

Given this, how can you have confidence in the SAF? In the event of a war, will all the scholar generals step aside and hand their commands over to professional soldiers 2 ranks below them? Not likely. Our neighbours have long ago realized that we are a paper tiger, and now one of them, Indonesia, openly mocks us. Why did this happen and what was Con You thinking when he started this whole SAF Scholarship Generals for the PAP scheme? The only reason he did this is that he came to the same conclusion that I did many years ago. That there is no viable military threat to SIngapore from any of its neighbours. Period. Not for now, and not for the foreaseable future. Singapore can be effectively defended by what ever regulars are in the SAF right now and by its standing Police Force, assuming they have professional and capable leadership. (As you can see, the SPF is affected by the scholars contagion too). This is the only reason why he would take such a huge risk to deprive the SAF of effective combat leadership by implementing what is in effect a scheme to produce sham generals. He realized that the chances of SIngapore being invaded or subjected to military attacks by a neighbour are almost nil.

By the way, I have been procrastinating on starting a thread about the who really is a military threat to SIngapore (answer is Nobody), there is a lot of research and most dullards here, (even the anti PAP ones) are not prepared for it.
 
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The SAF will fail when really tested. Whatever capabilities we have is for show only. By the time clearance is sought for whatever course of action or response, game over. Scholars should remain in the universities or in R&D. Not messing up the uniformed services.

The scholar scheme is following ancient Chinese imperial examinations.
Beats me why vile pappies use such a system that is thousands of years old and even the chinks themselves abolish 100 years ago as a failure.

Even the ancient Chinese model was superior to pap's.....as back then they had different and separate exams for selection of 文 and 武 officials.....I'm sure they did not end up with paper generals like ours.
 
By the way, I have be procrastinating on starting a thread about the who really is a military threat to SIngapore (answer is Nobody), there is a lot of research and most dullards here, (even the anti PAP ones) are not prepared for it.

bro,
mai tu liao!!!
 
What war do those PAP maggots cockroaches want or dare to fight?
When they know Singaporeans are all ready to turn their guns on the PAP and their fucking paper generals to kill them all together with allies from other countries.

AND TO FINISH THE CLEANSING AFTER THAT WITH PIANO WIRES AND LAMP POST DANCING FOR ALL THE REMAINING PAP AND COLLABORATORS
 
Great post. Look forward to more of you analysis.

Quite busy now, wait a while. I have to do it on my free time. But there is some research to be done. Otherwise, all the PAP IB will try and whack me. LOL
 
The emphatic answer to your question is NO, the SAF will suffer an epic failure worse than the SPF's Little India incident. THe bottom line reason why is that the SAF leadership is not made up of professional soldiers, but of political appointees waiting in the wings for their eventual posts in some GLC or a Ministry... In reality, these people have no intention of making the army their career and therefore have no combat or operational experience. But the main point I have to make here is no matter how new your weapons are, or how many of them you have, it will not win you the war if you have poor leadership or generalship. They are just using the SAF to mark time till their appointments to a Ministry.

History had already shown that SG would fall like a pack of cards if and when invaded. The Japs attacked Bolehland in the North during WW2 and walked all the way into SG. SG is as vulnerable today as way back in WW2. Sukarno launched confrontasi and bombed SG without sending soldiers into the country, just saboteurs and people panicked like shit. SG does not have a hinterland to fight a war. All these paper Generals are just for show just like the police commanders when faced with the ah neh rioters. Would they have the guts to defend and die for SG? Extremely doubtful. Just a few kamikaze pilots of the enemy forces and SG would be finished.
 
History had already shown that SG would fall like a pack of cards if and when invaded. The Japs attacked Bolehland in the North during WW2 and walked all the way into SG. SG is as vulnerable today as way back in WW2. Sukarno launched confrontasi and bombed SG without sending soldiers into the country, just saboteurs and people panicked like shit. SG does not have a hinterland to fight a war. All these paper Generals are just for show just like the police commanders when faced with the ah neh rioters. Would they have the guts to defend and die for SG? Extremely doubtful. Just a few kamikaze pilots of the enemy forces and SG would be finished.



What war do those PAP maggots cockroaches want or dare to fight?
When they know Singaporeans are all ready to turn their guns on the PAP and their fucking paper generals to kill them all together with allies from other countries.

AND TO FINISH THE CLEANSING AFTER THAT WITH PIANO WIRES AND LAMP POST DANCING FOR ALL THE REMAINING PAP AND COLLABORATORS
 
History had already shown that SG would fall like a pack of cards if and when invaded. The Japs attacked Bolehland in the North during WW2 and walked all the way into SG. SG is as vulnerable today as way back in WW2. Sukarno launched confrontasi and bombed SG without sending soldiers into the country, just saboteurs and people panicked like shit. SG does not have a hinterland to fight a war. All these paper Generals are just for show just like the police commanders when faced with the ah neh rioters. Would they have the guts to defend and die for SG? Extremely doubtful. Just a few kamikaze pilots of the enemy forces and SG would be finished.

The paper generals can't even pass their IPPt.
 
The SAF will fail when really tested. Whatever capabilities we have is for show only. By the time clearance is sought for whatever course of action or response, game over. Scholars should remain in the universities or in R&D. Not messing up the uniformed services.

There are no more of those "real soldiers" in the upper echelons of the SAF.

Where are those "Who Dares, Wins" ?

Whereas, at present, it is "For Glory and Honour"

In the past, we train to fight, and to fight and win, never mind about glory and honour, because if you lose, the game is over.
 
The emphatic answer to your question is NO, the SAF will suffer an epic failure worse than the SPF's Little India incident. THe bottom line reason why is that the SAF leadership is not made up of professional soldiers, but of political appointees waiting in the wings for their eventual posts in some GLC or a Ministry. You need professional career soldiers, especially in an army with such a large budget as that of SIngapore. You used to be able to find professional soldiers starting from the Lt. Colonel/Col. rank in the SAF, but even at that, they are rapidly being replaced by SAF scholars. Now, I think professional soldiers will be found at the Major rank and below. Of course, for the rank of General and above, its practically all scholars now.

This can be all blamed on Lee Con You and not Gay Loong as some posters allude to here. This goes back to the days when Wooden was installed as caretaker PM. The senior cadre in the PAP was very reluctant to see Gay Loong succeed as PM right away, and were in favour of
Wooden. Since Wooden had the popular support of the cadre, Con You had to devise a way where Gay Loong could get the support that he needed. SO, hence the long term plan was to take scholars on the side of Gay Loong, give them a SAF scholarship, send them to some good schools on scholarships and run them thru the SAF as fast as possible. Hence, when they become Generals and enter politics, there is an illusory sense of legitimacy to their ministerial positions. In reality, these people have no intention of making the army their career and therefore have no combat or operational experience.

The first generation of SAF leadership and people like Winston Choo were really professional soldiers. Although Winston was a PAP stooge, it still remains that he had no ambitions to run a GLC or a Ministry. You will notice the original philosophy of the SAF weapons procurement versus the philosophy today. The original SAF leadership would order equipment that were value for money and good enough to do the job that needed to be done. They would order the AMX-13 light tanks because they know the infantry needed mobile fire support and some form of tank versus tank capability. And also because the roads and bridges back than did not support 60 ton tanks like the Leo 2. These tanks were bought in carcass form, and SAE did the refurbishment to bring them up to snuff. Same goes for the Douglas A-4 Skyhawks, C-130, etc. New stuff that we bought we relatively cheap F-5Es, and added to by used purchases later. AFter these scholar Generals started taking, over value for money was replaced by "lets get the shiniest newest toy we can buy regardless of the cost". Imagine our F-16s and F-15s are even more capable than the USAF's! Everything we buy today is almost new, and very expensive.

Using the Skyhawk as an example, its principal role in the SAF was as a CAS (Close Air Support) aircraft. This is still a vital role that is still needed today. Its so vital that the US still retains the A-10 Thunderbolt 2 in the role long after its supposed retirement date. The US MArines use their AV-8 Harrier 2 for the same purpose. Well, we don't have this Skyhawk anymore. The Skyhawks cost less than USD$2 million back than, and we will have to now use a USD$30 million F-16 Block 52 on close air support.

But the main point I have to make here is no matter how new your weapons are, or how many of them you have, it will not win you the war if you have poor leadership or generalship. There are many precedents in history when a great leader can lead an army inferior in size and weapons to victory against a vastly superior force. Alexander the Great at Gaugamela is a good example. A good General is a student of war, and a dedicated strategist. He has studied all the famous battles, gone to all the command colleges and studies the enemy assidously. Our scholar generals have not done so. Look at all the Universities that our scholar generals went to. Cambridge, Harvard, etc. Did any of them go to Sandhurst? West Point? Should not a future General, regardless of the country he is from, be attending these military schools? That tells you right there that their minds are not in the game. They are just using the SAF to mark time till their appointments to a Ministry.

Given this, how can you have confidence in the SAF? In the event of a war, will all the scholar generals step aside and hand their commands over to professional soldiers 2 ranks below them? Not likely. Our neighbours have long ago realized that we are a paper tiger, and now one of them, Indonesia, openly mocks us. Why did this happen and what was Con You thinking when he started this whole SAF Scholarship Generals for the PAP scheme? The only reason he did this is that he came to the same conclusion that I did many years ago. That there is no viable military threat to SIngapore from any of its neighbours. Period. Not for now, and not for the foreaseable future. Singapore can be effectively defended by what ever regulars are in the SAF right now and by its standing Police Force, assuming they have professional and capable leadership. (As you can see, the SPF is affected by the scholars contagion too). This is the only reason why he would take such a huge risk to deprive the SAF of effective combat leadership by implementing what is in effect a scheme to produce sham generals. He realized that the chances of SIngapore being invaded or subjected to military attacks by a neighbour are almost nil.

By the way, I have been procrastinating on starting a thread about the who really is a military threat to SIngapore (answer is Nobody), there is a lot of research and most dullards here, (even the anti PAP ones) are not prepared for it.

I agree with you, especially about Sandhurst and West Point.

A schoolmate of mine, several years older, was the Best Overseas Cadet at Sandhurst.
I believe that his last rank was Colonel.
It appears that unless you are a SAFOS or some kind of "scholar", a "farmer officer" will rarely be promoted to BG.
 
History had already shown that SG would fall like a pack of cards if and when invaded. The Japs attacked Bolehland in the North during WW2 and walked all the way into SG. SG is as vulnerable today as way back in WW2. Sukarno launched confrontasi and bombed SG without sending soldiers into the country, just saboteurs and people panicked like shit. SG does not have a hinterland to fight a war. All these paper Generals are just for show just like the police commanders when faced with the ah neh rioters. Would they have the guts to defend and die for SG? Extremely doubtful. Just a few kamikaze pilots of the enemy forces and SG would be finished.

pm.jpg

"If we make it (NS and Reservist for PR) a requirement, we would not get the people we wanted. Secondly, if they did serve NS at 30, 40 and 50 years old. I would not like to be their platoon commander." - Lee Hsien Loong, Prime Minister (Today 16 Sep 2009)

These words came from a former Brigadier-General of the Singapore Armed Forces, the current Prime Minister of Singapore!

Excerpt from Feed Me To The Fish
"... to belittle the contributions and sacrifices of thousands of NSmen who serves till 40 is appallingly sick! It is so sad to know that Singapore citizens who recite the Singapore Aspiration (Pledge?) are lesser mortals in Singapore than PRs who spice up the lives of elite Singaporeans!"


1384169_420556228049832_1111083694_n.jpg
 
There are no more of those "real soldiers" in the upper echelons of the SAF.

Where are those "Who Dares, Wins" ?

Whereas, at present, it is "For Glory and Honour"

In the past, we train to fight, and to fight and win, never mind about glory and honour, because if you lose, the game is over.

real soldiers? The only soldier in SG to have served in a direct conflict was Winston Choo.
 
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