$1000 Flat- The Math

[kingrant]

Guess I can save u a lot of trouble by answering for you.

IT IS BAD BECAUSE IT IS NOT GOOD!

WHY IS INCOME INEQUALITY BAD FOR SOCIETY!!!!!

 

[exodus]

ooo... someone did the maths, let's examine.
a grand a month, the disposable income is around 800, coupled with the workfare, the bloke would have some 950 to feed his family.
utilities: a hundred
transport: two hundred
food for family of two: five hundred
wow! he still has a hundred plus to spare!
30 years down the road, CPF minimum sum not met, savings minimal, can't afford to have kids.
OMG!!! this bloke can work till he dies!

what about comcare, wis (workfare), hope (subsidy for children education), medifund, u-rebates ?

 

[zhihau]

what about comcare, wis (workfare), hope (subsidy for children education), medifund, u-rebates ?

will read up and factor in comcare, hope, u-rebates.
workfare was already factored in whilst doing me examination :p:p:p


after some ploughing, discovered that...
1. on u-rebates
u-rebates on utilities was about SGD$200.00 for 3 room or less for an entire year. 20% off the monthly bills

source: http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20101230-255561.html

2. on comcare work support programme

work support programme
Singapore Citizen, household income no more than SGD$1500.00
must pass a "needs" test, etc...
period of assistance: 24 months

source: http://app1.mcys.gov.sg/Assistance/WorkSupportWSProgramme.aspx

3. on comcare HOPE
Singapore Citizen, household income no more than SGD$1500.00
wife 35 yrs and below, etc...
providing bursaries for the kiddos, SGD$400/annum for Primary, SGD$800/annum for Secondary, SGD$1200/annum for Post-Secondary, $2000/annum for Uni.
housing grant of SGD$50,000.00 for the family (this is a wow! the 2 room flat now comes free after the SHG and what nots?)
SGD$10,000.00 training grants and SGD$1000.00 one time off rebate off utilities!

wow! that's so much more of savings per month! thank you PAP!

 

[Alladin]

BTW, gini got worse since we became independent under PAP

That's because almost 99% of the population were poor then!
And the gini measures the income disparity between the highest and lowest income earners without taking into consideration gahmen subsidies, grants and payouts.
Would really appreciate the anti-gahmen supporters to argue with at least some knowledge so as to give credibility to the alternative voice.

 

[Bigfuck]

That's because almost 99% of the population were poor then!
And the gini measures the income disparity between the highest and lowest income earners without taking into consideration gahmen subsidies, grants and payouts.
Would really appreciate the anti-gahmen supporters to argue with at least some knowledge so as to give credibility to the alternative voice.

Looks like after one IB fail, another comes in. And another one who never studies or understands GINI. Gini is independent of the size of the economy. GINI is about pie sharing. If 99% of the people are poor, it is because the pie is almost eaten by 1%. In addition, Singapore had the 2nd highest GDP per capita after Japan (HK not country) in the 1960s. If PAP wants to send IB to engage the people, the better study and not come out with one liner feeling and acting superior when they look like blaadee fools to all educated intellects in the world. While subsidies are one way of addressing income disparity, higher real incomes is the way for an entire country to move forward together and not end up in civil strife. If you have a 50inch LCD tv in a kampung when everyone else does not even have a black and white TV, do not blame people coming to rob you. The art of ruling people is to make them feel they are getting a good deal when they are not.
PAP fails badly as the people can see they are being spat and kicked. Asking people to eat maggie mee to hit the daily calories to escaped absolute poverty defined as 2USD/day is called first world, when GDP per capita for Singapore is supposedly 63,000SGD due to the law of averaging but median is 28800 only after much massaging with some kind of money in kind in the form of subsidies ? Nobody is asking <.25 for GINI. When PAP field smart IB to engage the people cyberspace? No possible when you look at the quality in parliament and in the government. Not that Singapore lacks real local talent. They are considered threats. Go study, newbie IB.
Do you guys even read and analyze the stats you make or you just take one out and babble?

 

[zhihau]

and now with a special interlude,

seems like the foot and mouth disease shows no signs of abating for the third week running.
and dear parents: please, for goodness sake, keep your children from putting their foot into their mouths.
wash their toys with dettol regularly, steam them if you have to. make sure the kiddos washes their hands and keep healthy!

and now back to the debacle on the 1000 bucks income supporting a family...

 

[Zombie]

good match...

waiting for round 2

 

[KuanTi01]

Flawed and warped logic from the start. PAP imagines that life is going to be a bed of roses. The poor guy earning $1000 a month better don't fall sick; don't have extra mouths to feed and don't aspire to greater wants and needs. What happen to our Swiss standard of living?

 

[GoldenDragon]

last noted, the top 10% earns about 9 times more than the bottom 10%...

I do not have figures but I doubt it is only 9 times. If only 9 times, it is acceptable.

 

[zhihau]

I do not have figures but I doubt it is only 9 times.

bro,

you mean it's more?

 

[GoldenDragon]

bro,

you mean it's more?

Yes sir, I think it is much more than 9 times.

 

[zhihau]

Yes sir, I think it is much more than 9 times.

Tuan,

you're right, my info would only be accurate up to year 2000. back then, the average household income of the bottom 10% was about $1400, the top 10% earns about $16000.
fast forward to 2011, the bottom 10% earns about $1600, the top 10% takes home about $28000, and that's easily 17 times more

source: www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/hist/hhinc1.pdf

 

[Alladin]

Looks like after one IB fail, another comes in. And another one who never studies or understands GINI. Gini is independent of the size of the economy. GINI is about pie sharing. If 99% of the people are poor, it is because the pie is almost eaten by 1%. In addition, Singapore had the 2nd highest GDP per capita after Japan (HK not country) in the 1960s. If PAP wants to send IB to engage the people, the better study and not come out with one liner feeling and acting superior when they look like blaadee fools to all educated intellects in the world. While subsidies are one way of addressing income disparity, higher real incomes is the way for an entire country to move forward together and not end up in civil strife. If you have a 50inch LCD tv in a kampung when everyone else does not even have a black and white TV, do not blame people coming to rob you. The art of ruling people is to make them feel they are getting a good deal when they are not.
PAP fails badly as the people can see they are being spat and kicked. Asking people to eat maggie mee to hit the daily calories to escaped absolute poverty defined as 2USD/day is called first world, when GDP per capita for Singapore is supposedly 63,000SGD due to the law of averaging but median is 28800 only after much massaging with some kind of money in kind in the form of subsidies ? Nobody is asking <.25 for GINI. When PAP field smart IB to engage the people cyberspace? No possible when you look at the quality in parliament and in the government. Not that Singapore lacks real local talent. They are considered threats. Go study, newbie IB.
Do you guys even read and analyze the stats you make or you just take one out and babble?

Sigh, another oppo internet dog that insults more than rebut with facts. Whole day IB, IB.... that's the only way you guys know to avoid having to provide any substantive proof of what you say. Any how google some figure and throw, think damn clever liao. Works for the people who are too busy screwing other people's wives and saying no comments.
First, which part of my post says gini is dependent on size of economy?
Second, throughout the 60s, sinkie per capita gdp was not 2nd to japan in asia. We are behind Korea too. In any case, i don't even think the 60s is a relevant period as most asian countries were emerging from one conflict or another. Japan's GDP alone was more than 70% of total Asian GDP.

 

[Bigfuck]

Sigh, another oppo internet dog that insults more than rebut with facts. Whole day IB, IB.... that's the only way you guys know to avoid having to provide any substantive proof of what you say. Any how google some figure and throw, think damn clever liao. Works for the people who are too busy screwing other people's wives and saying no comments.
First, which part of my post says gini is dependent on size of economy?
Second, throughout the 60s, sinkie per capita gdp was not 2nd to japan in asia. We are behind Korea too. In any case, i don't even think the 60s is a relevant period as most asian countries were emerging from one conflict or another. Japan's GDP alone was more than 70% of total Asian GDP.

PAP IB trash talker as usual. Low on facts accuracy. For your easy reference refer to below by World Bank (IBRD) which was one of the main source of global data statistics collection and reporting. BTW, one respected ang moh did mention this fact as early as 10 years ago in an economics text that is also used as recommending readings in Singapore as well as many parts of the world on the GDP. How they send you PAP IB dogs for study is an insult to the world dog. Everything not relevant for PAP as long as it fits their alien argument in the world. What kind of shit world do you live in? The rest of the 7 billion people in this world have no fucking idea what you guess smoke. Is PAP worth only this kind of shit? We talk about Gini and income equality and you talk about absolute GDP size.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_future_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
Then go India and China lah! Big absolute GDP with many people to share the pie. The pie size per person is still bigger here, fortunately. Since when you understand shit? In the USA and even developing countries electronic and internet sources can be accepted as sources of fact as can books and government documents. You must have really been hopeless in school and definitely hopeless in top rate foreign schools lol. DOG

 

[sleaguepunter]

considering $1000 really can buy 2rm flat but in the real world most applicants earning exceed $1k but less than $1.5k so that would not have qualify them the full $60k grant. The picture paint by the pap also not entire true about the cpf OA contribution as the flat leasee aged, his OA contribution also reduce as more are allocated to the SA and MSA. I past 35yo a couple yrs ago so i notice my OA contribution already less than b4 35yo. while the amount is small but that tens of dollar become the key whether the flat leasee need to top up cash for the flat instalment. I not sure how much govt will adjust the cpf for those above 50 and 55yo but on current cpf regulations, employer contribution is much lower and again more are allocated to SA and MSA resulting less into OA for flat instalment. So for a 30yo applicant on 30yrs instalment, he better work hard and pray nothing go wrong in the next 30yrs in order to complete the lease payment. The only other way to remain in the flat is to purchase the hdb insurance that allow the spouse to gain the deed in the event of the policy holder died b4 complete payment for the flat.

 

[red amoeba]

1K buy flat, but no $$ to renovate -so stay in empty house?
no $$ pay utilities might as well go camp by the beach and use public toilet?

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Singaporeans truly deserve all the ass-raping that they receive from the PAP. This is the PAP that makes huge profits from sellling HDB homes and still got Singapore people asking for subsidy and grant to buy the homes. Useless and daft is how Singapore people are. Why allow garment to make profit from your 20 or 30 year misery. Only the daft deserve it. :oIo:

 

[Silencer]

At the end of the day being able to own a flat in 30yrs still beats having to continue to pay rent after 30 yrs and his kids will rip the rewards of his hard work

Agreed.

How's thing CA it's been awhile.

Now, let's go into the nitty gritty thing called facts and figures.

Believe you know the full criteria that to be met to be granted that $60K.
If not do refer here: www.hdb.gov.sg

How many family which earns less than $1,500/month household income can start a family and raise a child ?

(You how expensive is pre-nursery and kindergarten nowadays let alone child care ?)

Usually the bottom decile of income earners (which they are) are usually not that well
educated nor will be they have very good relative support.

Alot will argue that their income will increase through the years and it will be much easier
after the initial decade !

Agreed - provided this people can think far and go for that betterment training as always
emphasized by the good government.

If they are then they would not be in this predicament no ? So most likely they are not.

Reality - They be the first to be laid off if not then they be lucky to be only pressured to a lifetime of low wage.

Then, what happen if one fell ill or got canned and could not find a job ?
Yes the scenario is similar with the man who earns 10K a month and bought a condo with
a 30 years installment plan.

But ! the 10K man can sell his condo anytime to tide the weather but the HDB man has to
wait for 5 years.

The condo man after selling his house can buy a resale 2-room HDB flat.
The 2 room HDB man cannot. He has to buy resale - you think he can afford ?

That's the major difference.

The good minister announced the $1K HDB based on an assumption.
All my above statements are based on reality.

Oh, sorry forgot all about the facts and figures, maybe you would like to throw some
at me and we can split peas over it.

 

[coolguy]

The pappies is based on the assumption that sinkies pay will continue to increase year by year,
so housing will continue to be affordable in the long run. Their slogan is Tomorrow will be better.
However, the hard truth is sinkies always gets the shorter end of the stick under the pappies rule.
Statistics has revealed that the low income earners wages has remain stagnant over the years, middle income earners wages
has lag behind despite strong economic growth.
Coupled with rising inflation, a volatile and competitive job market due to FTs, increasing GST and living costs,
a non transparent govt with no accountability.
It is no wonder why sinkies feel so insecure and is full of mistrust.
Contary to the rosy future which the pappies always tried to protray, what sinkies see are a dead end path,
a hopeless future.
Being psychologically pessimistic, it is no wonder why sinkies continue to reject pappies sky high priced pigeon holes,
even when pappies entice them of a possible future asset enhancement.
This inevitably results in more votes for opposition as well as more sinkies leaving this country.

 

[Bigfuck]

"When the Gini coefficient reaches around 0.5, it means the inequality problem is extremely severe and needs immediate action to bring it down," Party School of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China Senior Economist Zhou Tianyong told the China Daily in 2010

"The last time Chinese officials published a Gini coefficient was in 2000, when they announced that China's 2000 figure was 0.412. A 2011 NBS report said 2011's "Gini coefficient is a little bit higher than that in 2010," but did not elucidate either year's figures."

"According to the United Nations Human Development Report, China's Gini index in 2001 was 0.447. A 2005 report from the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences said the Gini coefficient was nearly 0.47 in 2005. "

"In its 12th Five-Year Plan for 2011 to 2015, the Chongqing Municipal government said it plans to bring down its Gini ratio from 0.42 to 0.35, the Beijing News reported. It is the first local government to integrate the Gini coefficient into its Five-Year Plan. "

http://english.caixin.com/2012-01-18/100349814.html
This tidbit is for the learned brothers with IQ above 160 like me, lol. Even China officially acknowledges the dangers of high gini figures and some local governments are tackling high gini head on. China keeps quiet about the actual number but it knows. Our alien govt in Singapore denies vehemently and send its degenerate 3rd rated IB dogs to win a place for fastest intellectual devolvement and regression.
Time to head off to another place overseas again.