SCDF CPL Kok Yuen Chin (NSF) dies after being found unconscious

[Wunderfool]

I think that far too much effort is being placed on safety and not enough on training realism. This is because of the political pressure on the government given the fact that NS is compulsory and parents are forced to surrender their sons to the SAF at the prime of their lives.

While zero training deaths may alleviate the political cost that NS it does nothing for the defense of Singapore in the long term as it will result in a poorly trained and unfit army totally lacking in fighting ability should the need arise.

Singaporeans need to collectively accept the fact that a certain number of training deaths is inevitable. I suggest a figure of 1% which means not more than 1 death per 100 enlistees.

I see no problem to accept the 1% training mortality rate if SAF were to insure $4.3m for each NSF. What is $4.3 m in one death in exchange for every 99 combat fit soldier who are ready to die for the country?

 

[Wunderfool]

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View attachment 42763

Finally the golden mouth speaks.

 

[Leongsam]

I see no problem to accept the 1% training mortality rate if SAF were to insure $4.3m for each NSF. What is $4.3 m in one death in exchange for every 99 combat fit soldier who are ready to die for the country?

It's good to know that the loss of a son can be compensated with money. Uniquely Singaporean?

 

[Truth_Hurts]

I think that far too much effort is being placed on safety and not enough on training realism. This is because of the political pressure on the government given the fact that NS is compulsory and parents are forced to surrender their sons to the SAF at the prime of their lives.

While zero training deaths may alleviate the political cost that NS it does nothing for the defense of Singapore in the long term as it will result in a poorly trained and unfit army totally lacking in fighting ability should the need arise.

Singaporeans need to collectively accept the fact that a certain number of training deaths is inevitable. I suggest a figure of 1% which means not more than 1 death per 100 enlistees.

U yap soo much about realistic training..and yet you have senior military officers who cannot even organised an orgy in a whore house let alone lead men into combat. And they themselves would not be able to survive a realistic training themselves. So wat realistic training u talking about? These guys know fuck all n all they do is bark at others to do what they won't and can't do. A real officer trains the men properly not be a sadist bcos he can. That is the difference. N the SAF is least concern about realistic training n more concerned about being an iron rice bowl for its dogs.

 

[virus]

we are looking at an average of at least 1 NSF death each year.

parents are not going to buy it. period.

its lower than birthrate... maybe should target 1 week, by then sinkies will be numb just like train disruption. numb.

 

[Leongsam]

U yap soo much about realistic training..and yet you have senior military officers who cannot even organised an orgy in a whore house let alone lead men into combat. And they themselves would not be able to survive a realistic training themselves. So wat realistic training u talking about? These guys know fuck all n all they do is bark at others to do what they won't and can't do. A real officer trains the men properly not be a sadist bcos he can. That is the difference. N the SAF is least concern about realistic training n more concerned about being an iron rice bowl for its dogs.

Well said. I have "liked" your post.

 

[Truth_Hurts]

Well said. I have "liked" your post.

Thank you sir...few have ever 'won' an argument with you. Appreciate the like and the points that come with it if any.

 

[steffychun]

Stil waiting for Police NSF to be killed to found it off.

 

[zhihau]

Stil waiting for Police NSF to be killed to found it off.

You'll need another Little India riot for that to happen.

 

[steffychun]

You'll need another Little India riot for that to happen.

Don't need. Just another gung-ho regular pushing NSF beyond his limit or another ORD parade.

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

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[Wunderfool]

Got a change in impression of Shan. He is independent in this case even though he is the Minister for Home Affairs. He seeks to find the truth of the case and vows to punish the wrongdoers . Something other ministers must learb and do. There is no iron bowl to protect .you are there because the people elected you there and trust your leadership and service to the country.

 

[zhihau]

Got a change in impression of Shan

Dafug?!

 

[Truth_Hurts]

Got a change in impression of Shan. He is independent in this case even though he is the Minister for Home Affairs. He seeks to find the truth of the case and vows to punish the wrongdoers . Something other ministers must learb and do. There is no iron bowl to protect .you are there because the people elected you there and trust your leadership and service to the country.

He only talk big bcos it is scdf the 2nd rate civil service. If it's SAF with soo many scholars.. there will be a cover up..

 

[Wunderfool]

He only talk big bcos it is scdf the 2nd rate civil service. If it's SAF with soo many scholars.. there will be a cover up..

Is he giving some pressure to Ng Eng Hen?

Scoring some brownie points . And making himself look good.

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

Thanks for the continuing updates.

SCDF has five operational, and two training Divisions, all under the command of Eric Yap Wee Teck who sits in his plush office in the fancy glass tower at Paya Lebar. Tuas View Fire Station (TVFS), where Kok was killed, is one of five "units" that come under the SCDF's 4th Division which is commanded by Col Michael Chua Szu Chiap. The "unit", TVFS, comes under the command of Maj Huang Weikang.

In trying to shamelessly cover his arse, Eric Yap wants to avoid command responsibility by redefining "command responsibility" to be that held only by "unit commanders" who hold the relatively lowly ranks of Captains and Majors. In his self-serving world view, only Maj Weikang, as the "unit" commander of TVFS, bears sole "command responsibility" for the death of Kok.

Eric Yap is being disingenuous and dishonest.

Since it was established by the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, "command responsibility" has never started and ended merely with low-level commanders. It's the reason why General Yamashita was charged for "unlawfully disregarding and failing to discharge his duty as a commander to control the acts of members of his command by permitting them to commit war crimes." Yamashita was executed in 1946, not for the atrocities he personally committed, but for the atrocities committed by the men under his command.

In his letter, this fool who is severely deficient in self-awareness, wrote:

"Let me be clear about this - those of us who are aware of, or have seen such acts being carried out but yet do not stop or report these acts, also bear responsibility. We cannot condone or allow any wrongdoing."​

So the inevitable question that arises is : Was Eric Yap Wee Teck, Commissioner of SCDF, '"aware of [...] such acts?

If he is, this fool should, by his own declared standards that he trumpets out in a letter, "also bear responsibility" for not "stop[ping]" such "acts". If he claims otherwise, that he is not "aware" of such nonsense occurring under his command, he should be stripped of his Public Administration Medal (Silver). Such medals are awarded for "outstanding efficiency, competency and industry" and Eric Yap has shown himself to be incompetent and undeserving of the medal.

Next, he along with Col Michael Chua Commander, 4th Division and Maj Huang Weikang, Commander TVFS, must be charged under the Penal Code as abettors to the killing of Cpl Kok Yuen Chin. Chapter V (Abetment) of the Penal Code makes clear that these three can be held liable as abettors.

Unless they are held responsible, charged and sacked, such needless deaths of young men in the prime of their lives will continue. Parents who entrust their sons to the care of the state for National Service will have no assurance that their sons will come out the way they handed them over to the state, alive and with their limbs intact.

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For the news, Shan going to change the rules. No more "command responsibility" from next week :

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[Wunderfool]

It's good to know that the loss of a son can be compensated with money. Uniquely Singaporean?

If you say you are prepared to accept a mortality rate for training while we entrust our sons to you and you put them at risk in the name of realistic training, then you must be prepared to pay a price for your negligence and presumption either in insurance or in punitive measures . You cannot have your cake and eat it.

 

[PTADER]

Got a change in impression of Shan. He is independent in this case even though he is the Minister for Home Affairs. He seeks to find the truth of the case and vows to punish the wrongdoers . Something other ministers must learb and do. There is no iron bowl to protect .you are there because the people elected you there and trust your leadership and service to the country.

K.Shanmugam is not as "independent" and noble as he seems. Those who think he is will need to listen very carefully to his response (from 4:31 min mark of the Msg 211 video posted by CoffeeAS).

He says it will be a "command responsibility to ensure that such conduct is not repeated". Like Eric Yap, he then goes on to define "command responsibility" as that held only by "unit" commanders.

As I mentioned earlier, "unit commanders" in the SCDF are the low-level commanders holding the ranks of Captains and Majors. To eradicate this problem, what needs to be done is to hold the commanders right at the very top responsible. In this case, Eric Yap the Commissioner holds that "command responsibility" for allowing such nonsense to go on even though he knew about it.

As I have explained in Msg 179 of this thread, "command responsibility" does not start and end with low-level commanders. It starts right at the very top, a reason why the likes of General Yamashita was charged and executed for:

"...unlawfully disregarding and failing to discharge his duty as a commander to control the acts of members of his command by permitting them to commit war crimes". ​

Likewise, Elizer Niyitegeka, the former Rwandan Minister for Information including a host of Rwandan "elites" who were charged and sentenced to terms between 15 years and life imprisonments based on "command responsibility".

Thambi is reasonably intelligent. As such, I have no doubts he knows what "command responsibility" is and where it starts and where it should end. Or how "command responsibility" has led to the conviction of people even without them having any immediate or causal contribution to an offence or crime. For him to then dishonestly and disingenuously define "command responsibility" in Parliament as ending only with low-level "unit" commanders betrays his intent to cover his own arse, and the conflict of interest he has, and he is in. This is since it will only take a few more deaths for the responsibility to progress right up from "command responsibility" (if Eric Yap is made responsible) to "Ministerial responsibility", i.e. to him.

This is the only reason I can think off of why this arsehole is shielding Eric Yap and covering Eric Yap's arse. In shielding Eric Yap, he is protecting himself and covering his own arse lest one fine day, it leads all the way up to him.

Ditto for that dishonourable and disgraceful fucking piece of worthless shit, that Minister for Defence who goes by the name of Ng Eng Hen.

 

[Wunderfool]

At least he acted and spoke on the case.
And he drew clear lines of responsibility and accountability. That what a leader must do. He did not keep silent and let the ground level people decide who should be responsible and accountable. If the ground level people can decide, there wont be a death case to begin with.

 

[virus]

station rota commander kena. thing is who likely to kena. my guess is night rota bugger, the poor girl will kena.