Wine Bottles

[eatshitndie]

You are not completely right if I may contribute to here a little. Cork is cork, oak is oak. In the past cork is use to, cork everything as there is no bottle caps rubber stopper etc. So cork has been used traditionally. Oak flavour is induced from oat barrels or in a more modern way oak chips has been used in the case of lots of Aussie wine producers and many new world wine producers. Main cork producing countries are Portugal and Spain. Napa valley produces many great wines and my favourite will be the Matriarch (Bond Estate) which I keep for special occasions. The 04, 05 and 06 bottles are very good.

there are corks these days that are made of synthetic materials....usually for cheaper wines. the truly good reserved wines are all bottled with oak composite corks. french sommeliers will tell you northern cal oak barrels are the best, 9 out of 9. they come shopping for oak barrels every weekend. wineries that use oak chips to infuse wine with flavor are shortcutting the process for cheap mass production. true authentic vintners rely solely on oak barrels and a longer aging process....these wines are usually classified as reserved wines in the bordeaux style.

 

[Forvendet]

I usually drink a glass of wine with meal when eating at home. I'm no wine connosieur, just a cheap Californian Sutter Home from supermarket will do. As I only need one glass per meal, I usually buy the small bottle that comes with screw cap. I seldom buy the big bottle that comes with cork unless I'm entertaining guests at home and is sure that we can finish the whole bottle in one evening. I use a pocket-sized opener to screw out the cork. Not that hard to use.

After meal it's whisky time for me, Chivas Regal. When drinking outside or traveling, of course beer is the most convenient, Heineken preferred, Carlsberg second choice, but if neither is available, any other brand will do. I'll just drink less if I don't like the taste; just enough for my alcohol fix.

 

[red amoeba]

don't buy the crap that the French bordeaux / burgundy tell you regarding cork adding flavor to the wine. It has nothing to "add" to the flavor of the wine neither the oakey taste. Oak is intro into the wine during the fermentation / ageing process.

the whole reason is to add a few % to the price and for perception only. Becos since ages ago, wine comes corked and the impression remains as such. You notice even in France, with exception of Bordeaux & Burgundy (in fact if I am not wrong, some Burgundies hve stelvin), only Bordeaux remain steadfast in using corks - bcos it is perceived to be more "atas" Imagine the value of a Lafite will drop 30% if it comes in stelvin.

Moreover, the action of cutting the foil, uncorking the wine, sniffing the cork and swirling the wine in a glass, sniffing, tasting...forms the whole process of wine degustation. Its like a "process" - just like fucking, you need to kiss, foreplay, petting, before actually screwing. Imagine, you just strip and fuck, the whole experience is different.

Wines need not necc store sideways, the reason for this is bcos of the cork , you need to keep the cork moist in order that it don't dry & crumble into the wine. And cork is susceptible to TCA or cork taint. And the other reason is that, quality corks are harder and harder to come by.

All major brands though, are all with corks - i am referring to 1st & 2nd growth bordeaux, prestigious New World brands such as Stag Leap, Penfolds. But there are also quality brands in stelvin (esp alot of Australia & NZ wines). Cloudy Bay is one of them - an iconic wine.

 

[Forvendet]

Another thing to add on corkscrewing, don't screw through the cork, just deep enough to pull and uncork will do.

 

[red amoeba]

Another thing to add on corkscrewing, don't screw through the cork, just deep enough to pull and uncork will do.

i often struggle with those conventional cockscrew...i always use my trusty wine opener - not the fanciful kinds that cost 100s of dollars and run of batteries...

It is still a version of manual cockscrew but the design is such that it allows you to drill the bit into the cock and you spin it the other direction to draw the cork out...min. fuss...

 

[HedgeTrader]

i often struggle with those conventional cockscrew...i always use my trusty wine opener - not the fanciful kinds that cost 100s of dollars and run of batteries...

It is still a version of manual cockscrew but the design is such that it allows you to drill the bit into the cock and you spin it the other direction to draw the cork out...min. fuss...

Wah wine opener also got battery operated one ah? Never see before. The one my friend used quite big. Slot thru outside bottleneck first then screw and two wings open up. After screw grip the wings to pull the cork. Is that what you mean conventional opener?

 

[red amoeba]

Wah wine opener also got battery operated one ah? Never see before. The one my friend used quite big. Slot thru outside bottleneck first then screw and two wings open up. After screw grip the wings to pull the cork. Is that what you mean conventional opener?

yes, conventional ones - with a little ledge to leverage on the edge of the bottle to "pull" the cork out after you have drilled the bit inside.

some fanciful ones that i came across include with a lever, you push the bit inside the cork, pull out - min. strength needed - they used it on SIA planes, so that those petit stewardess can uncork the wines...but this is not good, especially against synthetic corks...cos they are very slippery difficult to get a grip by the "drillbit"

 

[HedgeTrader]

So many wine experts here can open wine party LOL

 

[Forvendet]

yes, conventional ones - with a little ledge to leverage on the edge of the bottle to "pull" the cork out after you have drilled the bit inside.

some fanciful ones that i came across include with a lever, you push the bit inside the cork, pull out - min. strength needed - they used it on SIA planes, so that those petit stewardess can uncork the wines...but this is not good, especially against synthetic corks...cos they are very slippery difficult to get a grip by the "drillbit"

I'm skeptical about oak corks and storing wine bottle horizontal to keep the bottom of the cork moist. There was once the cork broke half way. I had to carefully remove the bits and flakes and carefully screw the remainder of the cork. That entailed screwing all the way through to ensure enough leverage not to risk a second break or the rest falling into the wine. Had that happened in a restaurant, the wine would be considered spoiled. Therefore you see, keeping the bottom of the cork moist doesn't mean that the cork can't break halfway. I don't think that synthetic material can disintegrate this way.

 

[eatshitndie]

I'm skeptical about oak corks and storing wine bottle horizontal to keep the bottom of the cork moist. There was once the cork broke half way. I had to carefully remove the bits and flakes and carefully screw the remainder of the cork. That entailed screwing all the way through to ensure enough leverage not to risk a second break or the rest falling into the wine. Had that happened in a restaurant, the wine would be considered spoiled. Therefore you see, keeping the bottom of the cork moist doesn't mean that the cork can't break halfway. I don't think that synthetic material can disintegrate this way.

oak corks also allow oxygen to interact with wine to let it age while screw tops don't. they are better for reds. environmentally, oak corks are renewable and bio disposable as they grow from trees, and are thus more friendly to the environment than synthetic and screw tops. today's oak corks are virtually tca free as modern methods have eliminated traces of tca from the material. vintage bottles however are not tca free. cork is now so cheap and renewable that even charles shaw wines, the two buck chuck, are bottled with oak cork.

 

[middaydog]

Moreover, the action of cutting the foil, uncorking the wine, sniffing the cork and swirling the wine in a glass, sniffing, tasting...forms the whole process

Ya man, don't you think sniffing metal screw cap look stupid !

 

[Fook Seng]

I'm skeptical about oak corks and storing wine bottle horizontal to keep the bottom of the cork moist. There was once the cork broke half way. I had to carefully remove the bits and flakes and carefully screw the remainder of the cork. That entailed screwing all the way through to ensure enough leverage not to risk a second break or the rest falling into the wine. Had that happened in a restaurant, the wine would be considered spoiled. Therefore you see, keeping the bottom of the cork moist doesn't mean that the cork can't break halfway. I don't think that synthetic material can disintegrate this way.

In the end, someone will suggest serving wine straight from the barrel.

 

[red amoeba]

oak corks also allow oxygen to interact with wine to let it age while screw tops don't. they are better for reds. environmentally, oak corks are renewable and bio disposable as they grow from trees, and are thus more friendly to the environment than synthetic and screw tops. today's oak corks are virtually tca free as modern methods have eliminated traces of tca from the material. vintage bottles however are not tca free. cork is now so cheap and renewable that even charles shaw wines, the two buck chuck, are bottled with oak cork.

oxygen & wine ? no....thats a bad mix. Oxidised wine is ahem..vinegar.

The oaking is done via keeping the wine in oak barrels & aged on its own due in the bottle. Even if you buy a bottle in stelvin, it will still age on its own. Nothing to do with the cork. If you surface area of the cork is too minuscule to have significant effect on the wine.

yes, agreed that the cork is considered "biodegradable" but to get good quality cork is always a problem.

Stelvin is also recyclable - you can melt back the metal. Only synthetic cork are deemed environmentally unfriendly becos its plastic.

 

[red amoeba]

In the end, someone will suggest serving wine straight from the barrel.

You will be surprised, there is an Australian brand of wine is comes in tetrapack...

 

[red amoeba]

I'm skeptical about oak corks and storing wine bottle horizontal to keep the bottom of the cork moist. There was once the cork broke half way. I had to carefully remove the bits and flakes and carefully screw the remainder of the cork. That entailed screwing all the way through to ensure enough leverage not to risk a second break or the rest falling into the wine. Had that happened in a restaurant, the wine would be considered spoiled. Therefore you see, keeping the bottom of the cork moist doesn't mean that the cork can't break halfway. I don't think that synthetic material can disintegrate this way.

yes, thats the problem with corks...it will disintegrate. Especially if you store them in a cool, dry environment - which is the recommended setting for wines.

thats why if you are uncorking vintage wine, some sommeliers will use a filter.

 

[eatshitndie]

oxygen & wine ? no....thats a bad mix. Oxidised wine is ahem..vinegar.

The oaking is done via keeping the wine in oak barrels & aged on its own due in the bottle. Even if you buy a bottle in stelvin, it will still age on its own. Nothing to do with the cork. If you surface area of the cork is too minuscule to have significant effect on the wine.

yes, agreed that the cork is considered "biodegradable" but to get good quality cork is always a problem.

Stelvin is also recyclable - you can melt back the metal. Only synthetic cork are deemed environmentally unfriendly becos its plastic.

all bottled wines have oxygen introduced in the bottling process. the wine goes thru' a process called bottle shock. the small amount of oxygen helps the aging process - a reason why better wines are served out of the bottle than straight out of the barrel. they taste different and much better from barreled wine. oxidation which is different from oxygenation is introduced when you have free radicals produced in the wine thru' exposure to sunlight. oxidation not oxygenation will turn wine bad. too much vibration and heat will also turn the wine. it is better to store in a cool dry and undisturbed place.

 

[Forvendet]

Ya man, don't you think sniffing metal screw cap look stupid !

I think that's kind of silly too. Yes, it's been ritualized through the ages to add to wine drinking, especially when served in restaurants, more sense of sophistication, romanization and finesse. It's something like the Chinese and Japanese tea ceremonies, going through all kinds of motions for show just for a drink.

In the end, someone will suggest serving wine straight from the barrel.

There's no need for that. The common screw cap is good enough. My favorite Californian Sutter Home small bottle comes with it but the regular bottle still uses cork. It works very well and I hope that in future Sutter Home considers using screw cap for the regular bottle too.

You will be surprised, there is an Australian brand of wine is comes in tetrapack...

Yes I've seen and tried that in Australia before, wine in tetrapak just like fruit juice. Anyway, wine is ultimately just fermented grape juice.

 

[red amoeba]

all bottled wines have oxygen introduced in the bottling process. the wine goes thru' a process called bottle shock. the small amount of oxygen helps the aging process - a reason why better wines are served out of the bottle than straight out of the barrel. they taste different and much better from barreled wine. oxidation which is different from oxygenation is introduced when you have free radicals produced in the wine thru' exposure to sunlight. oxidation not oxygenation will turn wine bad. too much vibration and heat will also turn the wine. it is better to store in a cool dry and undisturbed place.

oxygen is inadvertently added into the wine during the winemaking process not purposely introduced.

bottle shock happens of course but it is minimised because today, the bottling process is automated, the bottles are filled upright, and then sent by conveyor belt for storage. And given rest before being shipped to mkt.

For vintage wines, they are rested for 5 - 6 years after en premier (eg: Bordeaux).

 

[Cestbon]

I think that's kind of silly too. Yes, it's been ritualized through the ages to add to wine drinking, especially when served in restaurants, more sense of sophistication, romanization and finesse. It's something like the Chinese and Japanese tea ceremonies, going through all kinds of motions for show just for a drink.



There's no need for that. The common screw cap is good enough. My favorite Californian Sutter Home small bottle comes with it but the regular bottle still uses cork. It works very well and I hope that in future Sutter Home considers using screw cap for the regular bottle too.



Yes I've seen and tried that in Australia before, wine in tetrapak just like fruit juice. Anyway, wine is ultimately just fermented grape juice.

Quite agree for the tea brewing process and also the wine . All stupid just act high class and show Off like they are really master/expert. Wasting so much time and effort just for a sip.

 

[red amoeba]

Quite agree for the tea brewing process and also the wine . All stupid just act high class and show Off like they are really master/expert. Wasting so much time and effort just for a sip.

the thing about wine (and alot of other things in life) is very subjective...everyone has his opinions on what is good wine, who is a chio-bu.

to the French doing the ritual of sniffing, swirling, gurgling adds to the overall utility derived from the wine...come on, you pay thousands for a bottle of Lafite, you are not going to open the cork, drink it like mineral water and then 2 hours later, you go to the urinal and peed it out.

thats how the ah tiongs are doing to the wine - mixing it with 7-up / coke and drinking it literally like soft drinks.