The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Part II

[frenchbriefs]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

The easiest thing to do is to have all mothers prevent their sons from serving NS. That is close to 40,000 boys that will not report. what will SAF do? Court martial all the parents? Put 40,000 kids in DB? Sad fact is that sinkie women are just as balless and clueless as sinkie men.

the PAP junta will call it the mutiny,Arse loong will declare a national emergency and bring his most loyal generals and the rest of the armed forces down upon these treasonous traitors.it will end even more badly then operation valkyrie.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

It is not happening yet. So why should he die first from smoke grenades before the real?

Because he was allergic to the smoke. That's his own fault it is not the government's fault or the SAF's fault.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

so scary,u cant even trust your scumbag employers SAF or the government to protect you and not screw you over,i think SAF soldiers better start or join a union that can fight for your rights,either that or start a riot or mutiny,400 man riot will do.all your superior officers and the military police is striving to keep you and every single sinkie male down.

The SAF is one of the safest armies in the world. The chance of dying in the SAF is lower than dying from the flu or a car ride.

Do unfortunate things happen? Of course they do but that's life. It can happen anywhere and at any time. You don't have to be doing NS to run the risk of death.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

the PAP junta will call it the mutiny,Arse loong will declare a national emergency and bring his most loyal generals and the rest of the armed forces down upon these treasonous traitors.it will end even more badly then operation valkyrie.

The rest of the armed forces will not move against mothers and fathers. He has to activate the Gurkha contingent. The Gurkhas are like a knife poised at singapore's throat. Anytime the SAF will not enforce the will of the PAP, or if there is mutiny, they will be activated to do the bidding of the PAP. Whether its shooting protesters in the streets or providing escort for MIWs to flee with their loots.

 

[frenchbriefs]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

The rest of the armed forces will not move against mothers and fathers. He has to activate the Gurkha contingent. The Gurkhas are like a knife poised at singapore's throat. Anytime the SAF will not enforce the will of the PAP, or if there is mutiny, they will be activated to do the bidding of the PAP. Whether its shooting protesters in the streets or providing escort for MIWs to flee with their loots.

trust me people are more easily brainwashed then u think,the gurkhas would not have to spill a drop of blood.if the saf has to execute 200 of their own people,200 traitors.they will do it.like the stanford prison experiment,u can get any group of people in the world to commit torture or even mortally kill if u tell them its part of the "system" or procedures,and they have no say over the process,they are merely following orders.human psyche is easily maellable and in any case BG loong wouldl probably set up a secret police within the military,a circle of the most trustworthy loyalist to the Lee Dynasty to carry out persecution,execution,extermination,

 

[PTADER]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

I wonder in future cases whether lawsuits can be brought against the manufacturer of the ordnances involved. For example in this case, it should ST Kinetics for manufacturing defective smoke grenades. They are not covered under the SAF Act. Suing the manufacturer is common in other countries. No only that, the ambulance service and the medic/doctors on duty that day should have been sued too. No one should ever have to die from an allergic reaction if epi pens, and bronchodilators were carried by the medical staff on duty. Of course in the kangaroo court system, the parents will not win. But they seem to be more interested to highlight the cowardice of the SAF rather then save some money from hiring lawyers.

I am sure it can be done. But in this case, the manufacturer will simply claim that it was the "wrong" use of the ordnance that cause the problem such as the negligent use of the smoke grenades (as has been determined by the COI in this particular case).

 

[PTADER]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

On this note, why has the WP never once asked the PAP in parliament for a breakdown of all SAF deaths and serious injuries, year by year, since the inception of NS? I think this is a subject that many families want to know. After all, many are sending their only son to NS, and they should be fully aware of the risks and dangers involved. the number should include all reservists and SAF regulars. I think it will be a national shock to the country when they hear how many lives have been sacrificed for no good purpose.

I believe it is because the WP sincerely believes that the PAP Government is a competent government and is managing all these issues very well.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

I am sure it can be done. But in this case, the manufacturer will simply claim that it was the "wrong" use of the ordnance that cause the problem such as the negligent use of the smoke grenades (as has been determined by the COI in this particular case).

The manufacturer will claim that for sure. But then if the parents had competent lawyers, they might bring up the fact that ST Kinetics active ingredient in their smoke grenade is zinc chloride, as mentioned by the COI. what if I told you that the most of the world's big armies use Potassium Chlorate (KCOI3) as the active ingredient. A case can be made that zinc chloride is more toxic then potassium chlorate. But in the last analysis, the kangaroo courts will always rule in favour of the PAP. So, the point might be moot other then to highlight the SAF uses unsafe product.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

I believe it is because the WP sincerely believes that the PAP Government is a competent government and is managing all these issues very well.

Then the WP are a bunch of fucking idiots.

 

[scroobal]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

I am upfront with my views no matter how unpopular they are and therefore do not need clones. Please name the clones that I am using. I have not moderated this forum for years. You may wish to refer the matter to the moderators. I do agree that it causing unnecessary pain to genuine members. I am sure others feel the same.

As for Chee, surely I cannot be blamed for his poor performance over the years. He is lying in the bed that he made. Honestly if a family member needs help with the government would you refer that person to Chee. I am dead certain that you would not .

By the way, nothing surreptitious, it is direct and an opinion. Just look at the people that have been with him for over 2 decades. Do you see quality? The good ones like VW and Jeremy Chen were there for a very short time. Why do you think that is?

Even without Chee, nothing got done in the past 3 years. So, as I have advised you in this thread, please get over your obsession with Chee and attempting to hijack and surreptitiously sneaking Chee into every thread at every opportunity available.

You and your clones, the PAP and the Chee haters out there are free to take potshots at Chee, screw, ridicule and castigate him. It's really no concern of mine. You can also continue to believe that I am CSJ like you did during the Delphi Forum period in the late 90s. That is your prerogative and your right.

The little that I ask is that you and your clones don't hijack threads to do so because it gets very tiresome and is no different from the tiresome "Chinese dog/race" or "Mark Andrew" hijacks / postings in various and numerous threads. Try not to let your obsession with Chee rule your life, online or offline. TIA for your cooperation.

 

[Charlie99]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

They kept him in PDF temporarily until the parliamentary questions stopped and the storm died down. The training was toughened up when he took over. The guy from young was made to be in uniform. He has the cutting and the mindset of a soldier. Not cerebral though. And the NUH COO job is not something that was advertised. He was actually named COO-designate.

Thank you.
I was unaware of his "rest and recreation" with the PDF.
What a set up, NUH COO not advertised, but simply appointed Noel to be the COO.
Why did the govt. treated him so exceptionally well.

 

[Charlie99]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

There's almost always "interference" when it comes to rewards or punishment and these are carried out "unofficially" by third parties. The more powerful the third parties by virtue of their rank and position, the more influential they will be. It's not just about two eggs in a plate of char kway teow but whether you will be left with a broken plate. They call it having a "godfather" in the SAF.

Noel Cheah probably has a super God father?

 

[Charlie99]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

On this note, why has the WP never once asked the PAP in parliament for a breakdown of all SAF deaths and serious injuries, year by year, since the inception of NS? I think this is a subject that many families want to know. After all, many are sending their only son to NS, and they should be fully aware of the risks and dangers involved. the number should include all reservists and SAF regulars. I think it will be a national shock to the country when they hear how many lives have been sacrificed for no good purpose.

This is one of the most desired questions.

 

[PTADER]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

I am upfront with my views no matter how unpopular they are and therefore do not need clones. Please name the clones that I am using. I have not moderated this forum for years. You may wish to refer the matter to the moderators. I do agree that it causing unnecessary pain to genuine members. I am sure others feel the same.

As for Chee, surely I cannot be blamed for his poor performance over the years. He is lying in the bed that he made. Honestly if a family member needs help with the government would you refer that person to Chee. I am dead certain that you would not .

By the way, nothing surreptitious, it is direct and an opinion. Just look at the people that have been with him for over 2 decades. Do you see quality? The good ones like VW and Jeremy Chen were there for a very short time. Why do you think that is?

Being "upfront" is not the issue. Hijacking a thread and turning it into a "Chinese dog", "Chee bashing", etc thread is. I am not particularly interested in your opinions of Chee or anyone else that you dislike.

I have created a "Screw Chee, I Scroobal, clones and friends say he is unelectable, untrustworthy, etc" thread. Feel free to use this particular thread for your rants against Chee. Request Sam to make it sticky so that it stays on the front page. Just don't fuck up other threads. There have been enough of good threads and discussions that have been hijacked and completely fucked up by such nonsense.

 

[PTADER]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

For those (older folks, mothers, sisters, etc) who have not done FIBUA and can't quite visualise this incident and hence, may be taken in by MINDEF bullshit replies, here is a screenshot.




In case the screenshot does not work, here's the video that it was taken from (o.46sec mark).

[video=youtube;TRscNDApf08]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRscNDApf08&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[PTADER]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

Because he was allergic to the smoke. That's his own fault it is not the government's fault or the SAF's fault.

Have you taken the effort to read the key findings of the COI that was posted in this thread as well as in other threads?

 

[yahoo55]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

In case the screenshot does not work, here's the video that it was taken from (o.46sec mark).

[video=youtube;TRscNDApf08]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRscNDApf08&feature=youtu.be[/video]

The reporter in the video said "police investigations are ongoing to determine whether to prosecute them in civil court". A good question to ask the police is why were they not prosecuted in civil court?

 

[PTADER]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

The SAF is one of the safest armies in the world. The chance of dying in the SAF is lower than dying from the flu or a car ride.

Do unfortunate things happen? Of course they do but that's life. It can happen anywhere and at any time. You don't have to be doing NS to run the risk of death.

The issue is not about dying or risks of death. It's about what happens when a death occurs.

Someone walks along, falls into a manhole left opened and dies. The issue arising from his death is who is responsible, must be held liable and accountable and what can be done to prevent or at least minimise the risk of future occurrence.

It's not simply an "unfortunate" manhole deaths that occur very rarely so it's not a big deal and therefore, no one needs to be held accountable or liable.

 

[Leongsam]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

The issue is not about dying or risks of death. It's about what happens when a death occurs.

Someone walks along, falls into a manhole left opened and dies. The issue arising from his death is who is responsible, must be held liable and accountable and what can be done to prevent or at least minimise the risk of future occurrence.

There is a point where the risks are minimised sufficiently for all practical purposes. Going any further would be ridiculous.

This smoke grenade incident is one of them.

If the smoke had built up to levels which were lethal, more than one soldier would have succumbed to the fumes. However in this case only one soldier died and it turns out he was allergic to the smoke.

You can just as well blame the MINDEF medical team for not conducting allergy tests on ALL enlistees for ALL POSSIBLE chemicals that soldiers might come in contact with in the course of their duties. He was declared fit for NS and sent to the training frontline and the training officer is therefore just as much a victim as the soldier is.

Life is not about removing all risk. It's about being practical and rational in assessing risk and MINDEF has done a pretty good job in this regard.

 

[PTADER]

Re: The "Punishment" of the two Captains and why MINDEF is so secretive about it –Par

The reporter in the video said "police investigations are ongoing to determine whether to prosecute them in civil court". A good question to ask the police is why were they not prosecuted in civil court?

Apparently, it is due to this (MINDEF's 2nd reply on 18 March 2016):

"Arising from the coroner's findings of fact, the Attorney-General's Chambers (AGC) decided not to prosecute anyone as the cause of death was an unforeseen allergic reaction that was unlikely to have been predicted." Lim Chuen Ni (Ms) Director, Public Communications Mindef Communications Organisation Ministry of Defence​

Suddenly, zero mention was made in this reply about the COI or the COI's findings of negligence and that the death would (not "could" not "might" but "would") have been prevented. This was after the General's screw up 11 days earlier on 7 March when he selectively quoted from the COI in which he sought to blame the soldier by stating:

The coroner also noted that PTE Lee “had under played and under declared his asthmatic condition” Brigadier General Chan Wing Kai Commander Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC)​

What this little sneak dishonestly omitted to mention was that his Minister had stated in Parliament in Nov 2012, i.e.,

"The COI was unable to establish with certainty if PTE Lee’s history of asthma was a contributory factor to his death. " Ng Eng Hen​

As such, whether the soldier "underplayed" or "under declared" his asthmatic condition is of no relevance. That's the problem when these duplicitous dummies such as BG Chan, Ms Lim Chuen Ni and their ilk from MINDEF refuse to come clean, don't play it straight and start lying or telling half-truths. They get entangled in the web of their own lies, spins and dishonesty.