MINDEF blames deceased soldier instead of accepting responsibility

halsey02 · Mar 10, 2016

winnipegjets said:
MINDEF didn't use this line of defence lah ...instead it just says we can kill your son and there is nothing you can do about it because the law protects us from lawsuit.

"to build a democratic society
based on justice and equality"

When our 'sons' are enlisted don't they recite the above??.."justice & equality"...ok! laws are laws, military law, civilian law, common law etc...but

WHAT ARE THE BASIC RIGHTS...they can just pass laws, regulation, without debate, consultation ( if there is, it is still a smoke screen), to protect their rights & give them the authority to do whatever they pleases....this has been going on the last 5 decades & still being carried out in 2016..the 'leopard never changes it's spot'...just unfortunate that the young man died...the issue will get even touchier if we bring in RACE....the whole point is...we are at their mercy, for example...look at the MEDISHIELD LIFE thing...., just unfortunate....this parents gave birth to the boy here...

what "justice & equality"???..what are our rights? this young person parents are of some standing in society with money & connections no doubt, if he was just another Chow Ah Beng & his parents are cleaners etc...you can bet, it will be swept under the carpet...., what are our rights, almost nothing! :rolleyes:

maxxi · Mar 10, 2016

The couple is seperated.She is in trauma.How you expect her to think straight?.

maxxi · Mar 10, 2016

No use quoting anthem, remember its only "an aspiration".

mojito · Mar 10, 2016

halsey02 said:
"to build a democratic society
based on justice and equality"

When our 'sons' are enlisted don't they recite the above??.."justice & equality"...ok! laws are laws, military law, civilian law, common law etc...but

WHAT ARE THE BASIC RIGHTS...they can just pass laws, regulation, without debate, consultation ( if there is, it is still a smoke screen), to protect their rights & give them the authority to do whatever they pleases....this has been going on the last 5 decades & still being carried out in 2016..the 'leopard never changes it's spot'...just unfortunate that the young man died...the issue will get even touchier if we bring in RACE....the whole point is...we are at their mercy, for example...look at the MEDISHIELD LIFE thing...., just unfortunate....this parents gave birth to the boy here...

what "justice & equality"???..what are our rights? this young person parents are of some standing in society with money & connections no doubt, if he was just another Chow Ah Beng & his parents are cleaners etc...you can bet, it will be swept under the carpet...., what are our rights, almost nothing!

These are but lies to fool lesser men. Loyalty will be rewarded, punishment is swift, that is all you need to know. :cool:

blissquek · Mar 10, 2016

halsey02 said:
"to build a democratic society
based on justice and equality"

When our 'sons' are enlisted don't they recite the above??.."justice & equality"...ok! laws are laws, military law, civilian law, common law etc...but

WHAT ARE THE BASIC RIGHTS...they can just pass laws, regulation, without debate, consultation ( if there is, it is still a smoke screen), to protect their rights & give them the authority to do whatever they pleases....this has been going on the last 5 decades & still being carried out in 2016..the 'leopard never changes it's spot'...just unfortunate that the young man died...the issue will get even touchier if we bring in RACE....the whole point is...we are at their mercy, for example...look at the MEDISHIELD LIFE thing...., just unfortunate....this parents gave birth to the boy here...

what "justice & equality"???..what are our rights? this young person parents are of some standing in society with money & connections no doubt, if he was just another Chow Ah Beng & his parents are cleaners etc...you can bet, it will be swept under the carpet...., what are our rights, almost nothing!

Quote:

parents are of some standing in society with money & connections

I always remember Mr. Heng when the chinese Seventh Month comes around.

The poor chap is emtombed under the Nicol highway bridge ....just because he is a peasant and his family cannot voice or stop work to find his body trapped under the rubbles.

So when i pass the place when it is the Seventh Month, i would quietly... murmur..Rest In Peace..Mr. Heng..

maxxi · Mar 10, 2016

I tot both parents work in airline industry?.

scroobal · Mar 10, 2016

When I saw the press report I was puzzled by the article and wondered why Mindef was playing hard ball. Did some checking and found out about the family from people involved. Note the Facebook posting where they mentioned they are not after money and do not want to crucify the 2 captains. Only looking for answers. Some of those involved feel that someone is providing bad advice. In fact they were surprised having handled similar cases that they were sure that person providing that advice was not legally trained but was seeking publicity.

Thick Face Black Heart said:
Welcome back, and interesting perspective on the issue, scroo. The family's behaviour is not that unusual IMO, and it's part and parcel of the psychology of grief which makes you do haphazard things. So they are pretty hard pressed in explaining why they are doing all these and it comes out as a big mumbo-jumbo.

Chee couldn't have been their first choice. They must have gone to other parties, WP presumably, got rejected, and then turned to Chee. Momentous error and they effectively politicized their own grief in the worst possible manner. But again, this is what grief does to human beings and I can understand.

scroobal · Mar 10, 2016

It does not have to be Chee. They would get the same treatment if they brought WP into the picture. Once it is politicised, its the family that will pay the price. You were with WP and JB and you know that even in those days for such cases, when the opposition is contacted by a family member, contact will be made with a decent servant who will assist in taking out down the red tape.

You know Chee well. He will grandstand, tell the whole World, get foreigners involved and the family will get burnt. He will then likely get another grant from Australia and or the US which will include travel, a stipend and more accolades but from the wrong quarters. Why do think he repeatedly gets screwed at the polls. Not every voting Singaporean is dumb. Why do you think that Chiam and Pritam can get elected. You think the PAP helped them get votes.

PTADER said:
What's so "unusual" about the family seeking justice???? Who is so "stirring the pot"? They can't think for themselves and seek justice? It's called "seeking accountability", a concept that should not be too foreign to you or anyone else.

For fuck sake, get over your obsession with Chee. This happened more than 3 years ago in April 2012. You mean CSJ patiently waited for almost 4 years, squandered the opportunity to raise this issue last year during the Sep 2015 election only to now, in March 2016, gleefully pounce on it after the mother e-mailed him 3-4 days ago and requested to see him???

Are those "some quarters" residing in your head next going to claim that the mother's e-mail was crafted by CSJ???

Let's be honest. Does this fucking shit that you have posted make sense or is even logical to you?

GoldenDragon · Mar 10, 2016

scroobal said:
It does not have to be Chee. They would get the same treatment if they brought WP into the picture. Once it is politicised, its the family that will pay the price. You were with WP and JB and you know that even in those days for such cases, when the opposition is contacted by a family member, contact will be made with a decent servant who will assist in taking out down the red tape.

You know Chee well. He will grandstand, tell the whole World, get foreigners involved and the family will get burnt. He will then likely get another grant from Australia and or the US which will include travel, a stipend and more accolades but from the wrong quarters. Why do think he repeatedly gets screwed at the polls. Not every voting Singaporean is dumb. Why do you think that Chiam and Pritam can get elected. You think the PAP helped them get votes.

To some in this forum, CSJ is God. An idiot even suggested he be president.

I once attended a function. CSJ was around too. A man in his 80s 'tekaned' CSJ so badly I felt sorry for the latter. CSJ is not a fool. He is smarter, much smarter than several bros in this forum. On getting elected, even an ordinary Lian in PE made it to parliament. CSJ will never succeed as a politician.

scroobal · Mar 10, 2016

My initial reaction was why Mindef and the courts seem harsh with this case. I did my background check before I wrote the post. They are been badly advised. As I pointed out, other cases were have gone to court and have been successful against the Mindef.

gsfosnis said:
If possible they want their son back. That's how the trauma of losing someone you love and treasure.
Maybe you are fortunate enough not to have experienced the emotional devastation of losing one of you own sons.
Therefore you may not be able to fully empathized with the plight of what the family is going through.

You should at least observe an iota of self-circumspection before penning forth your interpretation of the
situation surrounding the case involving the family. The family has already enough confusion and disappointment
at this juncture, your cynicism only paints you as an individual lacking empathy and compassion.

What political vantage do you think the family is hoping to realize from this, they are neither a member nor
a candidate of any political parties. It was the very establishment that the family and their son had once
so faithfully and obediently believed in that had failed them in carrying out their obligations as leaders
and legislators.

Would it lower the dignity of a Minister or even the President to apologize to the family for their loss that
was attributed to MINDEF's own safety negligence? Failing to do so only reinforce the impression and perception
that the establishment is inhumane and therefore should not be trusted.

Approaching Dr Chee was their last resort in the hope of getting justice for the beloved son, therefore their
motivation should not be suspiciously viewed as political but one of desperation.
It much too early to even speculate on how Dr Chee would fair in the handling of this matter.
Whether it is a mistake or blessing only time can tell.

GoldenDragon · Mar 10, 2016

scroobal said:
My initial reaction was why Mindef and the courts seem harsh with this case. I did my background check before I wrote the post. They are been badly advised. As I pointed out, other cases were have gone to court and have been successful against the Mindef.

In this particular case, Legal Services Dept MINDEF would have sought AGC's advice too? If so, why your comment that they were badly advised? I am quite sure this case would have passed through the SG. Maybe even AG himself.

PTADER · Mar 10, 2016

scroobal said:
It does not have to be Chee. They would get the same treatment if they brought WP into the picture. Once it is politicised, its the family that will pay the price. You were with WP and JB and you know that even in those days for such cases, when the opposition is contacted by a family member, contact will be made with a decent servant who will assist in taking out down the red tape.

Over more than 3 long years, they have approached at least 4 PAP MPs, a PAP Minister, a PAP GPC Chairman as well as written to the PAP PM. That is not "politicization" but suddenly , it becomes "politicization " when they approach CSJ 4-5 days ago??? And even if it is, what exactly is the problem??? That it will result in "the family [paying] the price" that you are talking about???

Haven't the family already paid and are still paying "the price" in not getting the apology they deserve and the answers they sought and are seeking??? Again, what "price" are you talking about???

"Those days" are those days. It's a new world out there. Nobody is going to crawl under their beds, pee in their pants or lose sleep in fear of "antagonising" Lee Hsien loong, Ng Eng Hen or by any absurd fearmongering by anyone including you.

PTADER · Mar 10, 2016

scroobal said:
You know Chee well. He will grandstand, tell the whole World, get foreigners involved and the family will get burnt. He will then likely get another grant from Australia and or the US which will include travel, a stipend and more accolades but from the wrong quarters. Why do think he repeatedly gets screwed at the polls. Not every voting Singaporean is dumb. Why do you think that Chiam and Pritam can get elected. You think the PAP helped them get votes.

Whether he grandstands, gets into Parliament, get grants, etc has nothing to do with me or the topic at hand no matter how you try to conflate two different issues just so you can take potshots at CSJ. You are the equivalent of that Jah chap where everything is turned into a "Chinese dog/race" rubbish or JW where everything is turned into a "Mark Andrew" issue. For you, everything will eventually turn into a CSJ issue even though you have claimed that CSJ is a PAP plant.

So what is your latest claim? Is CSJ a "PAP plant" or is he a genuine oppositionist seeking to grandstand and receive grants at every opportunity? (Rhetorical question. No need for any answers as I am really not interested in all your self-serving claims based on your self-proclaimed "sources", "inside track", etc.)

Like I said, get over your unhealthy obsession with CSJ. Your claims, arguments, POV, etc will at least be a lot more coherent, less contradictory, chaotic and confused if you do. Please stick to the issue. Don't let your obsession with CSJ rule your life.

virus · Mar 10, 2016

blissquek said:
Quote:

parents are of some standing in society with money & connections

I always remember Mr. Heng when the chinese Seventh Month comes around.

The poor chap is emtombed under the Nicol highway bridge ....just because he is a peasant and his family cannot voice or stop work to find his body trapped under the rubbles.

So when i pass the place when it is the Seventh Month, i would quietly... murmur..Rest In Peace..Mr. Heng..

After that did you ask for 4d number?

scroobal · Mar 11, 2016

GoldenDragon said:
In this particular case, Legal Services Dept MINDEF would have sought AGC's advice too? If so, why your comment that they were badly advised? I am quite sure this case would have passed through the SG. Maybe even AG himself.

Sorry bro, came out wrong. I meant the family was badly advised. Their first lawyer was the right person as he has history and good record for dealing with such cases. He has also has taken Mindef to High Court and won on a similar case for much higher compensation. Not sure why they changed tact on the lawyer and got this current chap whose is an interesting character. As mentioned before, someone is giving them bad advise.

Yes, certainly SG. So it is not just Mindef by the legal experts as well.

halsey02 · Mar 11, 2016

GoldenDragon said:
To some in this forum, CSJ is God. An idiot even suggested he be president.

I once attended a function. CSJ was around too. A man in his 80s 'tekaned' CSJ so badly I felt sorry for the latter. CSJ is not a fool. He is smarter, much smarter than several bros in this forum. On getting elected, even an ordinary Lian in PE made it to parliament. CSJ will never succeed as a politician.

We need people like CSJ & others, to prick the conscience of those in power & the 'gods' in the ruling party, or else they would have build 'ivory towers' so tall....you peasants on the ground is such a tiny speck from their telescopic sight...

yahoo55 · Mar 11, 2016

The compensation range mentioned by MINDEF yesterday is really pathetic, no wonder they are so secretive about it. PAP should compensate the family way more that, the compensation amount should at least be the one year pay of the current PAP defense minister.

This whole ordeal experienced by the dead boy's family shows that the lives of NS slaves are really dirt cheap for PAP, and how Sinkie peasants get bullied by PAP through their control of the civil service. Hope these PAP ministers, MINDEF generals and that fuckup judge burn in hell for eternity.

Macroeconomics101 · Mar 11, 2016

GoldenDragon said:
To some in this forum, CSJ is God. An idiot even suggested he be president.

I once attended a function. CSJ was around too. A man in his 80s 'tekaned' CSJ so badly I felt sorry for the latter. CSJ is not a fool. He is smarter, much smarter than several bros in this forum. On getting elected, even an ordinary Lian in PE made it to parliament. CSJ will never succeed as a politician.

Not just that Chee will never succeed as a politician. He was never succeed at anything remotely related to the well-being of Singaporeans. Period. To his credit, his one big accomplishment is that he made use of other people - activists, volunteers, etc, and used them as cannon fodder to get what he wants, which is attention and international recognition. His stipend from various human rights organizations as well as his book sales help feed his family. Imagine this - his wife is unemployed. He singlehanded raised his family using proceeds from his activism work and his book sales. He is a career champagne socialist and he has made a living out of it.

Macroeconomics101 · Mar 11, 2016

PTADER said:
"Those days" are those days. It's a new world out there. Nobody is going to crawl under their beds, pee in their pants or lose sleep in fear of "antagonising" Lee Hsien loong, Ng Eng Hen or by any absurd fearmongering by anyone including you.

Once the opposition gets involved, the entire system will be turned against you because you are now regarded as expendable. The system will rather sacrifice you and lose your support forever rather than favour you and indirectly put the opposition in a good light.

That is why in such cases, no matter what never go to the opposition. You might as well kill yourself.

PTADER · Mar 11, 2016

Macroeconomics101 said:
Not just that Chee will never succeed as a politician. He was never succeed at anything remotely related to the well-being of Singaporeans. Period. To his credit, his one big accomplishment is that he made use of other people - activists, volunteers, etc, and used them as cannon fodder to get what he wants, which is attention and international recognition. His stipend from various human rights organizations as well as his book sales help feed his family. Imagine this - his wife is unemployed. He singlehanded raised his family using proceeds from his activism work and his book sales. He is a career champagne socialist and he has made a living out of it.

Feel free to create a separate thread and bash Chee to your heart's content in that, whether you are an independent nick or the usual clones engaged in astroturfing.

Also, please request Sam to make this "bash Chee" thread sticky so that other threads will not constantly degenerate by nicks and clones for the issue very close to their hearts, be they about "Chinese dog/race issues", "Mark Andrew Yow something" or "Chee is a peace of unelectable, worthless shit" crap.

It really gets fucking tiresome when threads are hijacked by independent nicks or clones. To all the fuckwits doing this, please show some decency and have some fucking respect for visitors to this forum who, unlike registered forummers, are unable to block out independent nicks and clones hijacking threads to spew out their repetitive nonsense.

Will appreciate the cooperation. Thanks.

MINDEF blames deceased soldier instead of accepting responsibility

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Similar threads