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Opposition (dis)unity

SgParent

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I think folks here are thinking too many steps ahead.

We need the opposition to win more seats first. And dismantle the outdated idea that opposition is inherently radical or risky.

Only when Parliamentary presence is firmly established can we talk about cooperation, coalition, and other ideas............

Thumbs up!

This is precisely what I have sharing with any1 who bothers enough.

What we have now is a monopoly, artificial competition, false sense of choices.

Vote for more competition that always, always benefits the consumers. And Nature will take over.
 

SgParent

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Doesn't help the opposition when people start threads like the one below just weeks before the GE.

Oh and it doesn't help the opposition when people make bogus claims that LTK (whom you say took 20 years to take down a GRC) is a pap agent either.

And the guy who did both of these things: Manipulative Motherfucker Scroobal!

http://singsupplies.com/showthread.php?89550-The-Chen-Show-Mao-Affair

It takes all sorts of people to make this a beautiful World.

So we have spineless, shameless fake 40%. We also have brave, true pink 40%.
 

SgParent

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TS, start a thread on opposition unity and you draw out the entire WP IB. And their common target? Not the PAP, but the SDP. Makes you wonder why.

G'luck. Hope you thrive in this fascist environment.

Disagree.

I vaguely recall TS is from SDP, SDP supporter, etc, etc.

Read my comment
http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?149135-Opposition-(dis)unity&p=1489088#post1489088

His signature also gives others reasons to target SDP.

And TS only has himself to blame, for acting innocent to quote from a known anti-WP website. No?
 

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
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Disagree.

I vaguely recall TS is from SDP, SDP supporter, etc, etc.

Read my comment
http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?149135-Opposition-(dis)unity&p=1489088#post1489088

His signature also gives others reasons to target SDP.

And TS only has himself to blame, for acting innocent to quote from a known anti-WP website. No?

I think TS has identified himself as a supporter of the SDP. Is that a crime, or does it reduce his credibility?

Signature: he must have been infracted pretty often by WP supporters here, so no surprise if he's asking for a truce. (I myself have been zapped on many occasions by the WP & PAP IB here. That said, I'm not hung up on rep points at all.) More importantly, he did not bash WP in his signature.

On the other hand have you seen the SDP-bashing signatures here – should they be targets too?

TRE started as TR, an anti-PAP website under Joseph Ong, but it slowly morphed into an anti-PAP and anti-WP website for various reasons. But Joe has moved on to Temasek Times, and Richard Wan has taken over. At the old Delfi site Richard was never known for his anti-WP views; rather he was forever carping about foreigners taking away our jobs.

Personally, I think under Richard TRE has toned down its anti-WP rhetoric. If there's the occasional jibe at WP, it's probably out of sheer frustration at the perceived lack of bite of WP as the only voting opposition representatives in Parliament, a frustration that I, as an opposition supporter first and foremost, feel and understand all too well. WP's 'arrogance' vis-a-vis the other opposition parties is also another topic that comes up in kopitiam talk among non-partisan opposition supporters, not just SDP supporters (truth be told, there are not that many SDP supporters out there among the 40%).

I think posting Julie Ong's concerns about opposition unity is justified. Just about everyone these days, even erstwhile apolitical folks, is wringing their hands about how to stem the various PAP policies that are making life hell for them, and a common theme that crops up is: you opposition people should give us more choice, and avoid 3-corner fights to get more people into parliament. That's how the common man sees it – the lack of opposition co-operation is one factor in the lack of oppo voices in parliament. Just because WP supporters don't see the need for unity doesn't mean that other people don't have the right to discuss and champion it. e.g. Tan Jee Say, who has broken ranks with the SDP, is a fervent supporter of opposition unity.

It's understandable for WP supporters to react in a knee-jerk fashion every single time a negative comment is made about WP, but bear in mind the fact that because they outnumber everyone here (including PAP supporters) they risk suppressing free and fair comment in this forum if they keep pouncing on people of differing political persuasion.

Think about it; this forum would be much the poorer for it if it becomes the playground of a select group, the so-called 'elite' by virtue of their strength in numbers, rep points/power and their minions and hangers-on.
 
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SgParent

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I think TS has identified himself as a supporter of the SDP. Is that a crime, or does it reduce his credibility?

Pls lah. Can read my comment in its entirety or not?

Did I say him being a SDP supporter is a crime in itself or affects his credibility?

Pls let me know if you are still confused after reading my whole comment a few more times
 

wwabbit

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Asset
Opposition unity could be a good thing, but in the current state, any sort of opposition unity will only serve to slow down WP's momentum and drag WP down for no gains. The other opposition parties need to fix themselves first and make themselves viable and respectable because currently all of them are in some serious mess. Only then should we look again at whether opposition unity will serve us best.
 

3_M

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What sort of unity are they asking for? All parties dissolved and form a new party (which I doubt if this is what SDP, NSP or WP want)? Or an alliance like SDA (which have proved to be a failed experiment).

Or perhaps people just asking for greater effort in avoiding 3CF which is the status quo but can hardly be construed as sign of opposition unity.

I don't see why LTK or WP should be blamed for this supposedly lack of opposition unity since it never exist for the past 40 years. If there is such thing call opposition unity, there won't be so many parties in the first place.

I think it better for the respective party to focus their effort in intra-party building as a way forward rather than to waste time pursuing inter-party unity which isn't practical.
 

yellowarse

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As expected, I've been zapped again by the WP IB - 6 points. You know who you are. Proves my point about fascism in this forum. WP is becoming more PAP than the PAP.
 

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sleaguepunter

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What sort of unity are they asking for? All parties dissolved and form a new party (which I doubt if this is what SDP, NSP or WP want)? Or an alliance like SDA (which have proved to be a failed experiment).

Or perhaps people just asking for greater effort in avoiding 3CF which is the status quo but can hardly be construed as sign of opposition unity.

I don't see why LTK or WP should be blamed for this supposedly lack of opposition unity since it never exist for the past 40 years. If there is such thing call opposition unity, there won't be so many parties in the first place.

I think it better for the respective party to focus their effort in intra-party building as a way forward rather than to waste time pursuing inter-party unity which isn't practical.

bro yellowarse, i support what bro 3_M posted.

unity in book only mean prevention of 3CF. i only want pap to get lost so i want the party with most chance to win contest. what the point of having 30%++ votes when it still lose the seat. as it FPTP system here, not represeantation system. so those no hoper shd not choped seats like OLs at foodcourt. shd set the benchmark to 40% in order to contest again the next GE.

btw, not all WP supporters are SDP haters and not all SDP haters are WP supporters. i WP supporter but i didnt zap u rite? :wink:
 

yellowarse

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btw, not all WP supporters are SDP haters and not all SDP haters are WP supporters. i WP supporter but i didnt zap u rite? :wink:

That statement I agree with wholeheartedly. This should be the spirit of the forum. And thanks for the points.:smile:

I know where you and 3_M stand. My own feelings about unity I've expressed in other threads: we have to go beyond avoiding 3CF to form at the very least a loose alliance.

It's not just about 3CF and no-hopers choping constituencies. It's about spreading opposition talent equitably to achieve the maximum possible mileage in toppling the PAP by 2016. Remember, 87 seats means we need 44 good men to contest, win and form a coalition government.

It is doable, if all the opposition leaders can put aside their egos and petty party interests to achieve a historic result for the benefit of all Singaporeans. It took LTK 20 years to win one GRC. We don't want Singaporeans to be screwed for another 20 more years - there might not be any native-born Singaporeans left by then, and the Singapore we know might be totally gone as well.
 

Cosmos10

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Asset
SDP has a fairytale Foreign Policy based only on human rights and nothing else. It believes in no defence.
How to have unity.

Aiyo brother steffychun, I respect people even when our opinions are not the same. But one thing I do not respect is when they write lies and half-truths that are not backed up with facts.

Where and when is it stated that the SDP believes in no defence??? Show me please.

Where and when is it stated that the SDP "has a fairytale Foreign Policy based only on human rights and nothing else"??? Show me please.

By writing lies and half-truths, you are not reflecting well on the WP that you support, you know that?

Please remember that free speech does not mean irresponsible speech, ok? Thanks :smile:
 
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Cosmos10

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Asset
TS, start a thread on opposition unity and you draw out the entire WP IB. And their common target? Not the PAP, but the SDP. Makes you wonder why.

G'luck. Hope you thrive in this fascist environment.

Hi brother yellowarse, nice to meet you here for the first time :smile::smile:

I share the same feeling about the "fascist" environment. :p

I hope to be around here in this forum for the next three years until the GE in 2016, that is, if I can survive that long in this hostile environment. :rolleyes:
 

metalmickey

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Loyal
As expected, I've been zapped again by the WP IB - 6 points. You know who you are. Proves my point about fascism in this forum. WP is becoming more PAP than the PAP.

Just a thought. Suppose you were a PAP IB. It's a losing fight in here. No matter what you do, anything that just hints at "the PAP ain't that bad" is going to get your flamed from somebody. So you're a little bit sian. But suppose - just suppose there were a way of getting people to fuck off.

So you just built up your own characters on this forum. HAve them stay long enough to get some power. Then you just engaged in zapping people. You just zapped anybody - zapped indiscriminately without purpose. Maybe some people would feel really sian after that and leave.

And all that is so much more effective, so much easier than trying to steer the conversation away from PAP bashing. Just a few zaps here, and people start getting sian already.
 

peppertail

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An anonymous internet forum must be the worst place to discuss politics. Why should i believe people without a name and face??
 

metalmickey

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Why should I read the newspapers when there's no name and face either?

When I read something, I think about whether or not it's true. If it makes sense, I'll leave it there. If it's later on proven to be wrong, I'll strike it off. I don't really give a shit who said what. I listen first, and after that I judge. I have a habit, I never bother to look at who the author is until after I've read and thought about it.
 

yellowarse

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Asset
So you just built up your own characters on this forum. HAve them stay long enough to get some power. Then you just engaged in zapping people. You just zapped anybody - zapped indiscriminately without purpose. Maybe some people would feel really sian after that and leave.

And all that is so much more effective, so much easier than trying to steer the conversation away from PAP bashing. Just a few zaps here, and people start getting sian already.

That's a thought. But you'd have to build up your support base, your clique. You need numbers, people on your side, to increase your firepower. You need to create clones, and generate enough power for these clones by staying here long enough and posting lots of inconsequential posts. You need to build up rep points too, as a buffer against revenge zaps from guys who can see you – the Inf(P) members.

But ... not my cup of tea lah. I'd rather be outta here the moment I feel sian. I'm already posting a lot less than before.

Interestingly, the WP IB seems to be getting a much better handle on this strategy than the PAP IB which has the resources of the entire ISD behind them. Come to think of it, I hardly got zapped by the likes of Kinana, kopiuncle, cass888 even at the height of my anti-PAP rhetoric.
 
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yellowarse

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Asset
An anonymous internet forum must be the worst place to discuss politics. Why should i believe people without a name and face??

In a discussion what matters is the strengths and merits of an argument put forth, not who said it. If the validity of an argument depends on the identity of the person, you'd be either committing a fallacy of appeal to authority or an ad hominem fallacy.
 

Dreamer1

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Loyal
Dude, just follow the discussion here: http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?135627-Opposition-unity-is-a-madman-s-notion instead of bringing up this bullshit again.

There's already more than enough points brought up in there to show why with the current state of Singapore opposition parties, 'opposition unity' will be more harmful than helpful.
brothers,of course we the average voters like the opposition,and want them to win,but the fact of life is LTK is so far the most successful,perhaps the others who aspire to be in patrliament would learn from you,rather than complaining LTK is no co-operative,as Brother WWB said it was a long story,one Mr Goh meng seng would explain why Mr LTK acts as such
 

Dreamer1

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An anonymous internet forum must be the worst place to discuss politics. Why should i believe people without a name and face??
Brother peppertail ,the only reason is that I know for sure host boss Sam does not care much whether WP,PAp,SDP win,and that is the reason this is the best forum for discussion for politics
 

metalmickey

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Loyal
That's a thought. But you'd have to build up your support base, your clique. You need numbers, people on your side, to increase your firepower. You need to create clones, and generate enough power for these clones by staying here long enough and posting lots of inconsequential posts. You need to build up rep points too, as a buffer against revenge zaps from guys who can see you – the Inf(P) members.

Come now, all these are problems that can easily be solved. Not enough power? Make a small donation to the sammyboy fund. Or hang around long enough, your power will automatically go up.

InfP can see you? Don't zap them. Zap other people.

HAve multiple accounts, and give each other points.

All these are small problems that can easily be solved.
 
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