AWARE Sex Guide Suspended

[bellepepper02]

Trust the homophobes here to see this as a victory for Thio Su Mien and company. All this proves is that the group should have brought their issues to the govt and not tried to steeplejack a NGO.

Today, they acted against gays. Tomorrow they'll come for you. And then you won't be allowed to have sex unless it's for reproductive purposes. Hope you're still on their side then.

 

[cleareyes]

This just proves that the PAP plays to the masses
Face it, many Singaporeans (PAP voters) are homophobic
MOE's actions are well within my expectations

This is how PAP had always functioned, only act if there is a complain they cannot ignore.

I do not see any problem with the AWARE program. Creating awareness of the matter is not a form of encouragement. In fact thisthis falls very much in line with the intention of giving knowlegde and allow informed-choice to be made.

I see Thio and gang brought out the homosexual card as one to distract their actual intention and proving a focal point to those who disgree with them.

So what is wrong with giving information on a rather sensitive subject? Is creating awareness wrong or must we just keep on pretending the problem is not there and allow the bliss of ignorance create more problems?

Our kids today are smarter, more well informed then we were when we were at their age. I think its more of ignorance of the adults that is creating the problems and when they cant solve it, cant deal with it then they would try to hide it or force it to be opposed.

The PAP have no problems with a peaceful anti-homo stance (call it Pro-Family). Its the prospect of Christian Militancy that they discourage.

PAP had never go all the way out to arrest people of been gay neither had they deny gays of their basic rights of living.

But can a real gay couple really able to have a family? a proper functioning family? I do hope the gays in Singapore would think carefully and be realistic and asked themselves if all these is possible.

if the gays in singapore realy want acceptance, they have to find ways to convince the general public ad not behave like those fundamentalist who just ae interested in pushing down their own agenda into the throats of those who do not agree.

 

[cleareyes]

Trust the homophobes here to see this as a victory for Thio Su Mien and company. All this proves is that the group should have brought their issues to the govt and not tried to steeplejack a NGO.

There is no victory here.

Ignorance and discrimination of today will create problems for tomorrow's generation to solve.

 

[bellepepper02]

MOE stand is a clear message.

I won't be surprised that authorities will start looking at religious entities with wayward pipers that might swing votes for all the wrong reasons.

If the Archbishop had not stepped in, I am sure the vote tally might have been different and also the fact that Police got them to change the venue.

Agree with you that EGM would have had a different outcome if church statements hadn't come in over the last two days.

Also agree that govt will start looking at the "wayward pipers". After all, TSM and Company's real enemy was the govt. They just didn't have the guts to tackle it directly so they went for AWARE instead.

TSM and Co were also very interested in using AWARE to propel their Christian women into parliament. JL kept harping on the need to get 35% women into Parliament. They had some very nefarious plans.

 

[cleareyes]

The PAP

1. AWARE got a slap in the face for being too progressive

2. The Church leaders got their balls handed to them

3. Thio Su Mien and her militants were sent packing

4. The Pro Homo lobby got a warning that we'll tolerate you ONLY if you stay out of trouble

The PAPies just whacked all their troublemakers at one go

Yap...... but there could be more.

lets wait and see.........

 

[Zombie]

"YOU CAN DO IT........."


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[londontrader]

bellepepper02,

"TSM and Co were also very interested in using AWARE to propel their Christian women into parliament. JL kept harping on the need to get 35% women into Parliament. They had some very nefarious plans."

Very interesting! Can you elaborate on that?
Is this your own conclusion (no offence meant) or do you have information about their plans.

Cheers

 

[kingrant]

I just dont understand. Why did the MOE backpedal? Just because 1,300 parents petitioned? Why, we had 33% of voters who "petitioned" against the govt in the last elections, why didnt they acquiesce then? Petty politicians are indeed petty politicians, except ours come with not so petty pay packets!

 

[kingrant]

Dear Scroobal

Wait what I don't get If "Gays are Normal" equals "promotion of gays" and both LKY and GCT in announcing non discrimination against gays in the civil service saw gays as normal, opposed by the church BTW and Josie and GANG............then why is AWARE being blamed for a tone set by LKY first ?





Locke

This govt is like that. Since LKY always find plugging into the world's grid and embracing globalisation is a holy grail, he has no choice but to accept gays into govt service and also their equality as a fact of life. On the other hand, he doesnt want to go so far, so Section 377A is not repealed so asshole sex is condoned but not decriminalised on paper. If parents started to complain, as they have now, with 1,300 signed in a petition, he gets edgy and moves away from the edge back towards the centre. If not, his son will face the wrath at the next elections,and not him. That is the hypocrisy- one minute gungho, next minute tail between the legs, and the asshole shut!

 

[londontrader]

cleareyes,

"This is how PAP had always functioned, only act if there is a complain they cannot ignore."

You said it!
They always bend with the wind if it is blowing in their direction
If it isn't, the PAP will create their own wind

"I do not see any problem with the AWARE program. Creating awareness of the matter is not a form of encouragement. In fact thisthis falls very much in line with the intention of giving knowlegde and allow informed-choice to be made."

I did see a problem right from the beginning of this debacle.
The approach was too progressive for such a controversial topic.
Singaporeans are not matured enough to deal with this
Once it went public, I was expecting the MOE to cave in to pressure
Mention "homo" + "school programme" = panic amongst parents

"I see Thio and gang brought out the homosexual card as one to distract their actual intention and proving a focal point to those who disgree with them."

Actually, I'm still not sure what their long term intentions were.
There is some speculation that Thio wanted to use AWARE as a political platform for her fundamentalist views.

"So what is wrong with giving information on a rather sensitive subject? Is creating awareness wrong or must we just keep on pretending the problem is not there and allow the bliss of ignorance create more problems?"

That's why we need a comprehensive sexuality programme.
These days the average Primary School teacher encounters problems we once associated with older kids eg. youngsters having sex, pregnancy! etc....
I fear that Thio Su Mien's actions have set back sexuality education in Singapore by decades.

"PAP had never go all the way out to arrest people of been gay neither had they deny gays of their basic rights of living."

The message is quite clear: live your homosexual lives quietly and don't cause trouble.

"But can a real gay couple really able to have a family? a proper functioning family? I do hope the gays in Singapore would think carefully and be realistic and asked themselves if all these is possible."

Actually, a few of them do exist. Gay couples even manage to host "weddings" (no official recognition of course). It is perfectly possible to have gay couples who live very contented lives. The homo bashers here don't realize that homosexuality is about relationships and not just sex.

"if the gays in singapore realy want acceptance, they have to find ways to convince the general public ad not behave like those fundamentalist who just ae interested in pushing down their own agenda into the throats of those who do not agree."

The Pro Gay lobby needs to calm down a bit. They have been a touch too vocal in the past few years. Singaporeans are a socially conservative lot across all the religions. It'll be a long time before the public will accept homosexuality as a normal facet of life in Singapore.

 

[londontrader]

Cadres seem to have stepped in. The message was strong and clear to AWARE and Pro gay lobby. Iswaran sure fucked it up.

You can be sure that Iswaran's CEP grading just got slashed!
He should have taken the lead from his sharper PAP colleagues
poor judgement man!

 

[londontrader]

ah but that would never happen...because dr thio does not appear to be a real activist...unless you consider christian right fundamentalism as activism

TSM would have been an able and effective activist. She has the experience of managing real organizations (unlike Josie). She is very intelligent and has developed a deep network of the rich and powerful. It is unfortunate that since her CONVERSION, a religious nut she has become.

 

[londontrader]

lockeliberal,

"Wait what I don't get If "Gays are Normal" equals "promotion of gays" and both LKY and GCT in announcing non discrimination against gays in the civil service saw gays as normal, opposed by the church BTW and Josie and GANG............then why is AWARE being blamed for a tone set by LKY first ?"

Do you find that AWARE is being blamed?
In my opinion, the MOE is framing the issue as one of CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. It looks suspiciously like a political exercise more than assigning blame.
just my 1 cents worth

 

[londontrader]

I just dont understand. Why did the MOE backpedal? Just because 1,300 parents petitioned? Why, we had 33% of voters who "petitioned" against the govt in the last elections, why didnt they acquiesce then? Petty politicians are indeed petty politicians, except ours come with not so petty pay packets!

They caved under the same circumstances as the Section 377A affair.
These guys walk the ground and know just how conservative Singaporeans really are. It takes a courageous PAP to legislate in favour of homosexuals.

 

[londontrader]

This govt is like that. Since LKY always find plugging into the world's grid and embracing globalisation is a holy grail, he has no choice but to accept gays into govt service and also their equality as a fact of life. On the other hand, he doesnt want to go so far, so Section 377A is not repealed so asshole sex is condoned but not decriminalised on paper. If parents started to complain, as they have now, with 1,300 signed in a petition, he gets edgy and moves away from the edge back towards the centre. If not, his son will face the wrath at the next elections,and not him. That is the hypocrisy- one minute gungho, next minute tail between the legs, and the asshole shut!

Don't forget the PAP has nothing much to gain (and a lot to lose) from promoting homosexual rights. Gungho only when got $$$$$!

 

[banova888]

I think you would have read the MOE press release
They have carefully navigated the line between satisfying the largely homophobic masses and not agreeing with Thio Su Mien's ridiculous assertions.

The message for the homosexual lobby is clear : do whatever you want but keep it quiet.

Which means AWARE still supports gays!

 

[eatshitndie]

fyi - isd agents are in all the churches, especially the fervent ones that can potentially become politically explosive.

kudos should be given to the gov for making sure sg is not dominated by one religious group over the sorry asses of other groups.

if these fundamentals and evangelicals were to take over, they would screw everyone in their virginal rears and suck all with their twisting tongues, becoming what they loathe to become - ultimate gay lovers. what irony.

some of the most horny lovers here in the bay area are actually the religious fundies - they fuck like rabbits front, top, bottom and rear when no one is aware.

fucking wanking wanton hypocrites.

 

[scroobal]

The answer lies in the fact that both Mr, Mrs & Master Thio are heavily involved in the property industry. An industry whose favourites champions are you know who.

Business comes before religion and personal philosophy for many and they are no exception. If the vice Chancellor of NUS is a raging gay but well respected for being an academic power house, this event would not have taken place.

If Lien clan had lesbians in their midst, nothing would have come out.

The fact that the manoveure was initially via proxy indicates that hedging was taking place. The fact that Josie and the pussycats refused to reveal the real agenda speaks volumes.

Looks like Claire Nazar did not know about the good practice of hedging and thus paid dearly.

Dear Scroobal
Wait what I don't get If "Gays are Normal" equals "promotion of gays" and both LKY and GCT in announcing non discrimination against gays in the civil service saw gays as normal, opposed by the church BTW and Josie and GANG............then why is AWARE being blamed for a tone set by LKY first ?
Locke

 

[Iolabunny]

some of the most horny lovers here in the bay area are actually the religious fundies - they fuck like rabbits front, top, bottom and rear

and what religious ask you to stop fucking ?

 

[DrPanacea]

Thanks to me you now admit and agree that zeroo used the word 'religion' as as a metaphor and not religion per se. I don't need anyone to educated me, PAP or any others.

TSM and Josie did not push the religion onto others in the Aware issue. They were civic minded people wanting to protect their own and others' children from homosexuals. That's why they are against the CSE program.
Show me where did they forced religion into the issue.

The old guards and their homosexuals supporters hooligan and gangster behaviour were the militants in the EGM. Never Josie's supporters.
I say again if you still don't get it. Josie and her team was voted in constitutionally, legally and civically. Yes, LKY would very proud of me. Are you envious?
And what's wrong with having bus loads of supporters? Didn't you see this in GEs too? Wake up Rip Van Winkle!

Are you upset that the MOE had suspended the CSE program to prevent more homosexuals coming to join the likes of you?

TSM and Josie and her team has lost the battle, but they WON the war.

"That's why zeroo posted the word religion in ' ' and used the word as a metaphor. Any clear-headed educated mind would understand. "

I was demonstrating how SILLY that metaphor was. Clearly your "educated" brain can't get that. It's OK, the PAP has provided many avenues for you to upgrade your "education".

"As long as you have the mindset that Thio Su Mien and Josie and her team are trying to impress their Christian beliefs upon others, you will have everything against them. You gave me the impression that you too have been swayed by the bad press given to them."

Dude, I've actually met Thio Su Mien. Haven't had the pleasure of meeting Josie but I'm feeling rather sorry for her these days, for being used to further an agenda she didn't quite understand. I don't need any press (bad or otherwise) to impress on me that Thio Su Mien and her like are religious fundamentalists who have no space for anything else but their own beliefs.

"There will always be religious militants and fanatics who deviate from what their religion teaches them. And often these people are not condoned even by their own religious leaders in our modern times. So it is plain futile googling what is not relevant to the Aware context."

You mean Christian Militancy isn't relevant in the AWARE context?
I think you're been in the sun too long!

"The aggressors are certainly the old guards supporters at the EGM. They intimidated the others with their ruffian and thug like behaviour. "

Thio Su Mien and gang didn't resort to overt displays of bad behaviour
They used DECEIT instead
All Christians must feel very proud of them

"On the other hand, Josie and her team were never the aggressor. They were voted into the Aware committee constitutionally, legally and civilly."

You mean by busing in a truck load of voting fodder gathered from their religious network?
That's your definition of "legally, constitutionally and civilly"
I think Lee Kuan Yew will be very proud of you!

"You too can form a political party and try to get yourself and your team voted into parliament constitutionally too if you so wishes."

I'm not Thio Su Mien
I've no wish to change the world

"They were never deceitful and were clear in their objective and they have kept religion out of it."

YOU HAVE DEFINITELY BEEN IN THE SUN TOO LONG!
All that was exposed a long time ago

"It was the media that played the religious card just because they are Christians with some belonging to the same church."

The media didn't have to do much work
They (The Thio cabal)

-used a network of religious contacts
-got their pastor to support the cause from the pulpit
-rounded up a gang largely from the same church
-had their emails forwarded to all and sundry because level headed Christians found their tactics disgusting
-the list goes on and go

They shot themselves in the foot right from the beginning

"See zeroo's post below. He was careful to write 'religion'."

And a SILLY metaphor it is