Yawgate: What are your views?

[CalvinOng]

Reposting from Channel News Asia Forum:

"If there was no basis to the rumors/allegations both parties -- YSL and Angela Oon -- would have issued a statement denying a romantic or sexual relationship and then threatened legal action. But they did not. YSL dodged the allegations and Angela fueled the rumors by saying she could "neither confirm nor deny" them and that she hoped the media would not reveal the identity of the 'other woman.'

After the GE2011 Angela was accussed of getting her facts wrong about the Sultan Theater in Nee Soon. She posted on her Facebook page that she did not make mistakes like that. It was a minor matter yet she defended herself. But in response to an allegation that called her moral integrity into question she was silent. Why? Why did she allow her name to be dragged through the m&d if there was no basis to the allegations? And why did YSL give up a $1 million salary and a bright political future if the rumours were unfounded? Now both their lives are ruined, and the lives of their spouses. It was all so unnecessary. When the rumors first started YSL should either have denied them or admitted them and then apologized. People can forgive indiscretions but they do not like being lied to.

The "proof" has not been revealed and may never be. But for most Singaporeans the behavior of the two parties -- silence, dodging questions, "no comment", and then Yaw running away -- is sufficient proof.

That's wot I think anyway. What do others think?"

 

[wikiphile]

I think i just zapped you for trolling

 

[CalvinOng]

I think i just zapped you for trolling

Not trolling. I am not anti-WP and not a PAP supporter. But like other Singaporeans I want to make sure my tax dollars are used wisely. I helped pay for YSL's salary when he was an MP. During those 9 months he was farking around with married women. When he was caught with his pants down he was arrogant, evasive and decietful. Until he gives the people of Singapore an explanation and shows contrition for his unprofessional behavior the matter should not be allowed to rest.

 

[wwabbit]

I don't think it matters anymore. They are finished in WP.

 

[CalvinOng]

I don't think it matters anymore. They are finished in WP.

I think it does matter. As a public servant he should be held accountable to the public. But he has not accounted for his behavior or shown contrition. I agree tho, both of their political careers are finished.

 

[Perspective]

Be it whatever I think (and I've stated my views previously), the question the TS is probably more interested in is whether it affects people voting choice.

I can only speak for myself. Looking closely at the history of all the parties (in which I don't have to state examples), this matter will weigh little in the way I vote and I think it is myopic to vote based on one incident. I can't speak for other Singaporeans but it doesn't matter to me as an individual how other Singaporeans will vote.

 

[Unrepented]

I think your deduction is reasonable, but may we not lose sight for the need for effective check and balances in our system, that can only be achieved effectively with more political representation though the various political parties, inorder to make our lives better, and equitable in opportunities as well as rewards.

Reposting from Channel News Asia Forum:

"If there was no basis to the rumors/allegations both parties -- YSL and Angela Oon -- would have issued a statement denying a romantic or sexual relationship and then threatened legal action. But they did not. YSL dodged the allegations and Angela fueled the rumors by saying she could "neither confirm nor deny" them and that she hoped the media would not reveal the identity of the 'other woman.'

After the GE2011 Angela was accussed of getting her facts wrong about the Sultan Theater in Nee Soon. She posted on her Facebook page that she did not make mistakes like that. It was a minor matter yet she defended herself. But in response to an allegation that called her moral integrity into question she was silent. Why? Why did she allow her name to be dragged through the m&d if there was no basis to the allegations? And why did YSL give up a $1 million salary and a bright political future if the rumours were unfounded? Now both their lives are ruined, and the lives of their spouses. It was all so unnecessary. When the rumors first started YSL should either have denied them or admitted them and then apologized. People can forgive indiscretions but they do not like being lied to.

The "proof" has not been revealed and may never be. But for most Singaporeans the behavior of the two parties -- silence, dodging questions, "no comment", and then Yaw running away -- is sufficient proof.

That's wot I think anyway. What do others think?"

 

[ForFun]

@ TS..

was your wife a virgin when she married you?
and were you a virgin when you married her?

 

[CalvinOng]

@ TS..

was your wife a virgin when she married you?
and were you a virgin when you married her?

How is that relevant?

 

[Char_Azn]

The guy have left leave the issue alone already

 

[CalvinOng]

The guy have left leave the issue alone already

As I said earlier, he was a public servant and an elected official who should be made to account for his cowardly and disgraceful behavior. Until he explains himself -- especially to the people of Hougang who put their trust in him -- and shows contrition the matter should not be allowed to rest.

 

[Troll]

Not trolling. I am not anti-WP and not a PAP supporter. But like other Singaporeans I want to make sure my tax dollars are used wisely. I helped pay for YSL's salary when he was an MP. During those 9 months he was farking around with married women. When he was caught with his pants down he was arrogant, evasive and decietful. Until he gives the people of Singapore an explanation and shows contrition for his unprofessional behavior the matter should not be allowed to rest.

I almost agreed with you initially, but the moment you mentioned you helped pay for YSL's salary when he was an MP, then I have to take exception to your remarks. In absolute terms, the amount of money that went from your income tax (if you pay any) to his pocket is very very minuscule.

As a taxpayer myself, not just GST, but very substantial personal income tax, I have interest in seeing our people's diversed interest being fairly represented in Parliament. And I am also interested in better accountability.

And WP has shown us all what accountability is about. It is about facing the issues and rumors squarely and explaining it to the very people who voted you in. Failing which is letting down the people who voted you in, and fall short of the standard that the party requires. It is not about sweeping matters under the carpet, dismissing things as noise, or finding somebody to sue.

Like you I am not pro PAP, nor pro Opp. I'm a taxpayer too.

 

[CalvinOng]

I almost agreed with you initially, but the moment you mentioned you helped pay for YSL's salary when he was an MP, then I have to take exception to your remarks. In absolute terms, the amount of money that went from your income tax (if you pay any) to his pocket is very very minuscule.

As a taxpayer myself, not just GST, but very substantial personal income tax, I have interest in seeing our people's diversed interest being fairly represented in Parliament. And I am also interested in better accountability.

And WP has shown us all what accountability is about. It is about facing the issues and rumors squarely and explaining it to the very people who voted you in. Failing which is letting down the people who voted you in, and fall short of the standard that the party requires. It is not about sweeping matters under the carpet, dismissing things as noise, or finding somebody to sue.

Like you I am not pro PAP, nor pro Opp. I'm a taxpayer too.

Troll, I pay a substantial amount of personal income tax and I don't want even a penny of it to go to cowards like YSL. I agree that the people's interests should be represented in a diversified parliament, with more voices from the opposition parties. I just hope parties like the WP do a better job of vetting their candidates next time, as clearly YSL and Angela were not suitable holders of public office. You say that the WP has shown what accountability is all about -- but they only took action when the situation had become untenable and the party's credibility was on the line. Prior to that it was "no comment" -- hardly the actions of a party that believes in accountability and transparency.

 

[deepblue0911]

I just hope parties like the WP do a better job of vetting their candidates next time, as clearly YSL and Angela were not suitable holders of public office. You say that the WP has shown what accountability is all about -- but they only took action when the situation had become untenable and the party's credibility was on the line. Prior to that it was "no comment" -- hardly the actions of a party that believes in accountability and transparency.

I think you need to distinguish three distinct issues: (i) YSL's alleged adultery; (ii) YSL's handling of the incident; and (iii) WP's handling of the incident.

Personally, YSL's alleged adultery is not my concern even if he's my MP. It's his personal life and the only person who should be bothered is his wife. Unless his adultery rendered him ineffective in discharging his duties as MP.

I disagree with YSL for running away when the heat becomes unbearable. It's cowardly and he will pay the ultimate political price -- politically, I think he's finished. Who dare to vote for him again if he stands for election? By running away, he's basically telling me he can't be entrusted with responsibility.

I think if WP had acted earlier, it would be on an even higher moral ground. As it is, it did the honorable thing by sacking him. I disagree with you that if WP had done a better vetting job, this would not have happened. This is really naive. What "vetting activities" do you advocate all political parties should undertake for new political members? How about existing MPs? Should there also be ongoing vetting for them? No vetting can be 100% water-tight. And remember, people do change in life. Even if a person clears the vetting, what is to say that he would not change along the way? How could we blame the party (regardless of whether WP or PAP, or any other parties) when a party member gets into trouble for something which frankly, no one could foresee?

 

[CalvinOng]

I think you need to distinguish three distinct issues: (i) YSL's alleged adultery; (ii) YSL's handling of the incident; and (iii) WP's handling of the incident.

Personally, YSL's alleged adultery is not my concern even if he's my MP. It's his personal life and the only person who should be bothered is his wife. Unless his adultery rendered him ineffective in discharging his duties as MP.

I disagree with YSL for running away when the heat becomes unbearable. It's cowardly and he will pay the ultimate political price -- politically, I think he's finished. Who dare to vote for him again if he stands for election? By running away, he's basically telling me he can't be entrusted with responsibility.

I think if WP had acted earlier, it would be on an even higher moral ground. As it is, it did the honorable thing by sacking him. I disagree with you that if WP had done a better vetting job, this would not have happened. This is really naive. What "vetting activities" do you advocate all political parties should undertake for new political members? How about existing MPs? Should there also be ongoing vetting for them? No vetting can be 100% water-tight. And remember, people do change in life. Even if a person clears the vetting, what is to say that he would not change along the way? How could we blame the party (regardless of whether WP or PAP, or any other parties) when a party member gets into trouble for something which frankly, no one could foresee?

1. There are two main schools of thought on this issue. First, that the personal life of an elected official should be open to scrutiny because it reflects their judgment and capabilities; and second, that an MP's personal life should be his own business because it doesn't impact their ability to discharge their duties. This debate can never be resolved. Personally I subscribe to the first school because....

2. ...as you say, his running away demonstrates that he is immature and not capable of handling responsibility. I think the WP leadership were more concerned about the allegations of the PRC translator who claims she slept with Yaw to "prove her capabilities" -- this suggests he was using his official position to gain sexual advantage. If true, that is a clear cut case of his behavior rendering him unfit for public office.

3. I agree, no vetting process can be 100% watertight. But according to various sources, Yaw's womanizing was well known before the election. If the leadership knew about his proclivities for skirt they took an enormous risk as any sexual scandal involving an opposition MP would be seized on by the ruling party and do immense damage to the WP's image and reputation. Sadly, this is precisely what happened. I am quite sure the WP will be more thorough at looking into their candidates' backgrounds come the next election.

 

[Kinana]

I think you need to distinguish three distinct issues: (i) YSL's alleged adultery; (ii) YSL's handling of the incident; and (iii) WP's handling of the incident.

Personally, YSL's alleged adultery is not my concern even if he's my MP. It's his personal life and the only person who should be bothered is his wife. Unless his adultery rendered him ineffective in discharging his duties as MP.

Would you say the same if it Lee Hsien Loong who committed serial adultery?

I disagree with YSL for running away when the heat becomes unbearable. It's cowardly and he will pay the ultimate political price -- politically, I think he's finished. Who dare to vote for him again if he stands for election? By running away, he's basically telling me he can't be entrusted with responsibility.

His adultery already disqualified him to be a leader. Run or no run. Why do you think he ran if adultery if an ok thing? Maybe it matters to Yaw although it doesn't matter to you. In a sense, maybe Yaw has better moral sense than you.

I think if WP had acted earlier, it would be on an even higher moral ground.

Why bother about morality if it doesn't matter to you if Yaw committed adultery or not? What moral grounds you want to talk about bro?

As it is, it did the honorable thing by sacking him.

It was a cop out really. A real bo pian. He ran away remember? What else could WP have done?
What honorable are you talking about?

I disagree with you that if WP had done a better vetting job, this would not have happened. This is really naive.

Don't be naive my fren. Do you really think LTK is ignorant of all these Yaw nonsence? Worked closely with him for 11 years in a small party and cannot tell? He must be stupid.

What "vetting activities" do you advocate all political parties should undertake for new political members? How about existing MPs? Should there also be ongoing vetting for them?

You mean no vetting necessary?
After becoming MP no more need to monitor?

No vetting can be 100% water-tight. And remember, people do change in life. Even if a person clears the vetting, what is to say that he would not change along the way? How could we blame the party (regardless of whether WP or PAP, or any other parties) when a party member gets into trouble for something which frankly, no one could foresee?

Thats why it is LTK job to be alert and smart.
He hasn't been effective in that sense, he can't even vet or monitor what his MPs say in parliament.

Best for Singapore like that? World class parliament like that? The co driver needs to be slapped too. Are you doing the slapping?

 

[deepblue0911]

1. There are two main schools of thought on this issue. First, that the personal life of an elected official should be open to scrutiny because it reflects their judgment and capabilities; and second, that an MP's personal life should be his own business because it doesn't impact their ability to discharge their duties. This debate can never be resolved. Personally I subscribe to the first school because....

2. ...as you say, his running away demonstrates that he is immature and not capable of handling responsibility. I think the WP leadership were more concerned about the allegations of the PRC translator who claims she slept with Yaw to "prove her capabilities" -- this suggests he was using his official position to gain sexual advantage. If true, that is a clear cut case of his behavior rendering him unfit for public office.

3. I agree, no vetting process can be 100% watertight. But according to various sources, Yaw's womanizing was well known before the election. If the leadership knew about his proclivities for skirt they took an enormous risk as any sexual scandal involving an opposition MP would be seized on by the ruling party and do immense damage to the WP's image and reputation. Sadly, this is precisely what happened. I am quite sure the WP will be more thorough at looking into their candidates' backgrounds come the next election.

What is factual is YSL did run away, the rest remain as rumours until such time they're proven? Probably never, given the nature of these matters. To make a good judgement on a person, hopefully only facts are used.

You said a public official's personal life is open to scrutiny. For me, if a MP could not perform his duties, then whether it's due to his messy relationships with women is irrelevant. The fact is he failed, and he should be judged on his failure. If an MP sleeps with someone by virture of his office, then that's not personal anymore, it's an abuse of his authority and he should be held accountable accordingly. Everytime I read about YSL in the papers, I sense that many people confuse the issues.

Could WP have better vetted YSL before he joined? I really can't say. But I know in life, there are always people who say wise things after they happened. In Chinese, it's called 马后炮 or 事后诸葛亮. I never believe that we act on rumours. Instead, we should focus on behaviours, objectively. If a person is busy chasing skirts in office, apart from gossips, surely there must be observable signs. Unless the bosses themselves are too busy chasing skirts too. Haha!

 

[Ramseth]

A man chasing skirt, especially skirt of another man's wife all the way up his bed, is epic success. If got caught, it's epic fail, nothing to do with anyone else, whether MP or minister. How to vet? Pray tell.

 

[deepblue0911]

Would you say the same if it Lee Hsien Loong who committed serial adultery?

Yes, I would.

His adultery already disqualified him to be a leader. Run or no run. Why do you think he ran if adultery if an ok thing? Maybe it matters to Yaw although it doesn't matter to you. In a sense, maybe Yaw has better moral sense than you.

If I'm an adulterer and a public office holder, and caught, I'll come out and apologise, ask for forgiveness and ask that I be judged for my work.

Why bother about morality if it doesn't matter to you if Yaw committed adultery or not? What moral grounds you want to talk about bro?

As an individual, I don't care whether he's an adulterer provided he does what he's elected to do. As an organisation, if you've a member who absconds and fails to discharge his duties, you sack him, that's the moral ground I mentioned.

It was a cop out really. A real bo pian. He ran away remember? What else could WP have done? What honorable are you talking about?

What is not honourable? Err, not doing anything?

Don't be naive my fren. Do you really think LTK is ignorant of all these Yaw nonsence? Worked closely with him for 11 years in a small party and cannot tell? He must be stupid.

So what do you think LTK knows FOR A FACT, not hearsay (I'm hoping you know the difference)? If you're saying that YSL has been committing adultery all these years (and please define which year to which year), why don't you identify yourself, go to a MSM, and repeat your accusations? Accuse LTK that he knew YSL has been committing adultery from year (____) to year (____) and LTK has knowingly and wilfully fail to take actions against YSL.

You mean no vetting necessary?
After becoming MP no more need to monitor?

Did you hear me say no vetting? I'm merely saying vetting can only do so much in selecting candidates. You also cannot claim failure in vetting each time a candidate fails. Besides, if we're so sure candidates need to be vetted to ensure they're sound, are our current public officer holders being vetted as an ongoing process?

Thats why it is LTK job to be alert and smart.
He hasn't been effective in that sense, he can't even vet or monitor what his MPs say in parliament.

Best for Singapore like that? World class parliament like that? The co driver needs to be slapped too. Are you doing the slapping?

Looks like you're really angry. I look at the facts and give my comments. You sounded very emotional. Get hold of yourself. If need be, come visit me in HK and I bring you to pray before the Buddha statue. Maybe we ask GMS to come along. Then you both can have inner peace.

Oh by the way, you may want to sign up for a course on intellectual discourse. Cheers!

 

[Kinana]

Yes, I would.

If I'm an adulterer and a public office holder, and caught, I'll come out and apologise, ask for forgiveness and ask that I be judged for my work.

Why would you then need to apologise if you think adultery is nothing wrong and does not affect your work?
What is there to apologise for?

As an individual, I don't care whether he's an adulterer provided he does what he's elected to do. As an organisation, if you've a member who absconds and fails to discharge his duties, you sack him, that's the moral ground I mentioned.

If you can play your wife out, you can play anyone out. Just like your idol Yaw.

What is not honourable? Err, not doing anything?

maybe you are right, not honourable at all.

So what do you think LTK knows FOR A FACT, not hearsay (I'm hoping you know the difference)? If you're saying that YSL has been committing adultery all these years (and please define which year to which year), why don't you identify yourself, go to a MSM, and repeat your accusations? Accuse LTK that he knew YSL has been committing adultery from year (____) to year (____) and LTK has knowingly and wilfully fail to take actions against YSL.

If LTK doesn't know Yaw was sleeping around in this small party, then he's a dummy.

Did you hear me say no vetting? I'm merely saying vetting can only do so much in selecting candidates. You also cannot claim failure in vetting each time a candidate fails. Besides, if we're so sure candidates need to be vetted to ensure they're sound, are our current public officer holders being vetted as an ongoing process?

So you do need to vet then.
You want to compare managing the entire civil service with managing WP?
Well, both vetting and monitoring this small WP party was not well done.

Looks like you're really angry. I look at the facts and give my comments. You sounded very emotional. Get hold of yourself. If need be, come visit me in HK and I bring you to pray before the Buddha statue. Maybe we ask GMS to come along. Then you both can have inner peace.

I'm not angry sir, I'm just amused.

Oh by the way, you may want to sign up for a course on intellectual discourse. Cheers!

Thats right, you need that one.