WWW.Japanese F3 vs Chinese J20

[Sideswipe]

KMT and IJA forces were about equal in WW2, about 3 million to 3 million. However, IJA was stretched from China all the way down SEA to Indonesia. On the other hand, KMT was bogged down with CCP forces about 1 million.

the CCP forces numbered no more than 300K throughout the war. barely 1/3 owned a rifle. ( sources from Vladimirov Diaries, Hurley and Wedemeyer )

regarding KMT forces strength during the war. Li Zongren memoir mentioned that many regional armies commanders like to falsify a high troop count numbers in order to get more funds and supplies from the central govt. he must be one of the culprits, falsify a non-existent high troops strength and colluded with Bai Chongxi to get the $$$.

KMT troops strength would be lesser than the typical figures given.

 

[Ramseth]

The ROC-KMT troop numbers could be verified roughly there. Roughly 2 million were evacuated to Taiwan after their defeat to CCP-PRC. That figure couldn't be made up. It was logistical and historical figure. PRC troops bloated to above 3 million after their victory as could be seen, committing 1 million troops to the Korean War wasn't a big deal to them. KMT took whatever's left of the Chinese navy and air force with them to Taiwan.

PRC had no navy or air force and had to start building from scratch, relying very heavily on USSR. It's also true that in WW2, even if KMT matched IJA man-to-man, they were seriously under-equipped. There was no Chinese navy since the Qing dynasty northern fleet defeat and annihilation by the Japanese navy. The ROC Chinese air force then was supplied and trained by US because Chiang and Soong sisters managed to talked US onto their side.

The ROC air force then fighting Japanese warplanes were outnumbered about 1:5 and yet they won with Japanese blown out of their skies. That incensed Japanese who were still dominant in naval and land warfare with China that they committed atrocities against civilians out of spite.

To be fair, Japanese fighter pilots were also very good as could be seen by their success over Malaya, Singapore and Pearl Harbor. Japan also had the advantage that they were able to build their own warplanes and train their own pilots, a foresight not to be belittled as China had missed catching up in time.

However, given the limits of time and resources, the motley crew gathered by KMT to fight off the Japanese air force was certainly the best.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Chiang completely trusted his new US Chief of Staff. there were no more supplies issues. the two eventually developed a great working relationship. soon after his arrival in China, Wedemeyer did an extensive check of all Chinese army equipments and reported that not a single US gun or bullet had gone to Chinese armies east of Yunnan ( don't know what that mean ) with the exception of 500 tons belatedly delivered to Kweilin and Liuchow ( given by Wedemeyer ). source was from Chennault.

Wedemeyer was honest/frank and always spoke his mind on the good and bad of Chiang/KMT. he never mentioned anything about Chiang hoarding lend-lease supplies before and after the war.

in 1937, half or less the entire Chinese armies obeyed Nanking orders. China to Japan aircrafts - 1:8? China had a weak or non existent navy. Japan had one of the largest and powerful navy in the world. Japan army equipments standard, i don't really know.

East of Yunnan should be the main front facing the japanese in china proper. Stiwell had been using supplies to equip the KMT corp trapped in India after the fall of burma and also to reequip the 15+ divisions of KMT troops that were transferred from central china aka changsha sector to support the Slim's 14th Army thrust into burma during the dry season of 1944.

there was accussation from the KMT general aka warload holding the line in changsha that lao chiang order him to withdraw in the face of IJA advance as lao chiang dont want to waste troops in a war that about to end. chiang even withhold supplies and reinforcements from him during the I-chigo operation to force him to withdraw.

While KMT on paper have 5m troops but chiang personally control maybe only 40-50%. His best troops were the german trained divisions which chiang withheld from action in the frontline number about 20 divisions. Many of the so-call KMT troops facing the japanese were troops belong to warlords who are allied with KMT. These troops technically dont belong to chiang so equipment not as lavish as chiang personal troops.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-trained_divisions_in_the_National_Revolutionary_Army

i know KMT had very little heavy equipments and aircrafts compare to the japanese but it the same case as the CCCP "volunteers" in korea where they attack in human wave where only the first wave have firearms and the later wave can pick up from the fallen. Compare to the firepower of the US firepower, japanese so call better technologies suddenly look puny. Why the communist troops can push the US troops from Yalu to the current borders while the KMT lost 40% of China to japan?

while IJA had better aircrafts and heavy artillery than KMT, but chinese copies of the mauser were better rifle than the japanese arisaka. The more numerous 7.92mm Hanyang88 and the newer 8mm Chiang Kaishek rifles have longer range and better stopping power than the 6.5mm arisaka. jap light and heavy MGs are a joke. The KMT was using the Czech version of the bren LMG ZB vr.26. Bren was the best LMG in the world, much better than the US BAR. the british army use the bren till the 80s. HMG were the maxim 08 and the MG34, which were use by the wehmacht in WW2. semi automatic pistol we saw on tv that have red hankie tie to it was the C96 broomhandle, fire a 7.63mm round or if a chinese copy, 0.45ACP same as the tommy gun. Almost all were build in chinese factories, so the supplies should not be a big problem. by 1943, KMT/US airforces no longer allow IJA to bomb at will.

by the way, IJA lost more than a million KIA in the conflict which is almost par with KMT losses. So it not as one sided as one perviced.

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/张自忠

the above was the highest ranking Allied Powers' general to be kill in the war. Taiwan just made a TV drama serial on him.

 

[sleaguepunter]

The ROC-KMT troop numbers could be verified roughly there. Roughly 2 million were evacuated to Taiwan after their defeat to CCP-PRC. That figure couldn't be made up. It was logistical and historical figure.

2 million evacuated to taiwan but not all were soldiers, plenty of civilians in their midst.

lucky u not a historian as 50% of what u wrote are not true.

 

[Ramseth]

2 million evacuated to taiwan but not all were soldiers, plenty of civilians in their midst.

lucky u not a historian as 50% of what u wrote are not true.

There're two ways to answer you.

1. Lucky at least 50% of what I said was true.

2. Almost no civilians tagged along with the KMT evacuation to Taiwan except some from Fujian province. There was no way to evacuate so many civilians and most civilians had their hearts turned to CCP anyway which was why KMT lost the war. Most of the evacuated were KMT military and relatives.

 

[Cestbon]

What over is over. No need to argue who is better.
What is future is more important. F3 or J20 I think to money and economy speak louder.
Who have more money sure can afford to build/buy better weapon or even spy on enemy.

 

[singveld]

What over is over. No need to argue who is better.
What is future is more important. F3 or J20 I think to money and economy speak louder.
Who have more money sure can afford to build/buy better weapon or even spy on enemy.

of course the japs better, PRC design product? I afraid it will crash by itself, not even able to get close to japs fighter.

 

[Liquigas]

Taiwan benefitted alot from the huge influx of talent from the Chinese mainland during that period. The civilians in the midst include the best and brightest from China - university professors, scientists, entrepreneurs, industrialists, bankers, novelists, film makers, actors and song writers. A small group of business elite (families of Tung Che Hwa and Henry Tang) ended up in Hong Kong.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

of course the japs better, PRC design product? I afraid it will crash by itself, not even able to get close to japs fighter.

You sure cos the prc made commerical products in which some of them have a bad rep means that their military grade type of equipment would be equally as bad?

Let's put things into perspective. The reason why some china made products aren't good is cos the manufacturers want to cut corners. Not because they don't know how to make them. In this case since it will be military stuff which is sanctioned by the govt of china itself would they cut corners and make inferior planes? Obviously not. FYI the majority of stuff come from china. Iphones and also on but they aren't inferior in any way. The way you write it it's like they don't know how to make these things.

Also the japanese covered up their radiation leak from their nuclear reactors and yet aren't japanese supposed to be above and beyond that? Looks like they want face too.

 

[singveld]

product like apple, manage by taiwanese, product like toyota, manage by japs. product like j20 manage by fat, useless, communist party members and their sibling, only got the jobs by connection. You think leh, their military grade equipment good? much worse than their commercial product. Just like their so call bullet train but worse.

You sure cos the prc made commerical products in which some of them have a bad rep means that their military grade type of equipment would be equally as bad?

Let's put things into perspective. The reason why some china made products aren't good is cos the manufacturers want to cut corners. Not because they don't know how to make them. In this case since it will be military stuff which is sanctioned by the govt of china itself would they cut corners and make inferior planes? Obviously not. FYI the majority of stuff come from china. Iphones and also on but they aren't inferior in any way. The way you write it it's like they don't know how to make these things.

Also the japanese covered up their radiation leak from their nuclear reactors and yet aren't japanese supposed to be above and beyond that? Looks like they want face too.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

product like apple, manage by taiwanese, product like toyota, manage by japs. product like j20 manage by fat, useless, communist party members and their sibling, only got the jobs by connection. You think leh, their military grade equipment good? much worse than their commercial product. Just like their so call bullet train but worse.

But those products are made by the equipment in china.

How many times has their trains broken down?

 

[singveld]

But those products are made by the equipment in china.

How many times has their trains broken down?

pls lah. use your common sense, PRC fighter plane cannot be better than japs. No matter how you twist the facts.

 

[Cestbon]

You sure cos the prc made commerical products in which some of them have a bad rep means that their military grade type of equipment would be equally as bad?

Let's put things into perspective. The reason why some china made products aren't good is cos the manufacturers want to cut corners. Not because they don't know how to make them. In this case since it will be military stuff which is sanctioned by the govt of china itself would they cut corners and make inferior planes? Obviously not. FYI the majority of stuff come from china. Iphones and also on but they aren't inferior in any way. The way you write it it's like they don't know how to make these things.

Also the japanese covered up their radiation leak from their nuclear reactors and yet aren't japanese supposed to be above and beyond that? Looks like they want face too.

Agree with u ! As long as willing to pay the price sure quality will be no barrier. Just look at the space rocket by China. Japan still have long to go not because they dont have the technology is money count.
How long US can afford to pay for it expensive toy?
Now no more space shuttle/rocket that available to send passenger to space station. Have to buy ticket on Russia rocket? Even Malaysia also can sent all is money matter.
Singapore is stupid dont know how to negotiate the the deal after buying so many F15. Should ask for 2 ticket on space shuttle to space station. Now too late.

 

[singveld]

what a retard reasoning. money can buy quality? They do not have the techical know how to make a high tech fighter, throwing money will not help at all.

Agree with u ! As long as willing to pay the price sure quality will be no barrier. Just look at the space rocket by China. Japan still have long to go not because they dont have the technology is money count.
How long US can afford to pay for it expensive toy?
Now no more space shuttle/rocket that available to send passenger to space station. Have to buy ticket on Russia rocket? Even Malaysia also can sent all is money matter.
Singapore is stupid dont know how to negotiate the the deal after buying so many F15. Should ask for 2 ticket on space shuttle to space station. Now too late.

 

[Zombie]

pls lah. use your common sense....

pls lah. stop always behaving like a bulldozer..

 

[sleaguepunter]

not sure how good the mitsubishi fighter is but if it is good, then why japan still in the F35 program?

 

[Cestbon]

what a retard reasoning. money can buy quality? They do not have the techical know how to make a high tech fighter, throwing money will not help at all.

Trowing money always improve quality. Just treat it as R&D if fail, learn,improve and slove it.
US have many plane prototype only selected get into production.
If no money. There will be no material,parts,labor......................nothing start/nothing out.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

pls lah. use your common sense, PRC fighter plane cannot be better than japs. No matter how you twist the facts.

ROFL!!! Priest lah priest lah they can NEVER be better Oh and i twisted the facts when i asked you if their bullet train has ever broken down. Seems like you're not here for a sensible discussion cos you don't have the facts to back up your words.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Trowing money always improve quality. Just treat it as R&D if fail, learn,improve and slove it.
US have many plane prototype only selected get into production.
If no money. There will be no material,parts,labor......................nothing start/nothing out.

The top universities in the world which are usually located in the US or the UK all have chinese ppl working and studying in there. I find it ridiculous when this singhveld says that china doesn't know how to do it and obviously money helps. He's like trying to say the chinese are too dumb to build a modern fighter jet and fyi the japs learnt all their tech from the west too. If you read on their history they sent all their students to foreign unis to learn inventions and stuff and they brought it back to japan and built it just like what china is doing now.

The reason for the failure of certain china products is cos of their cost cutting measures or improper business practices. What this singhveld here is trying to do is to snake around it and make it look like the chinese are too dumb to build them which isn't true.

 

[Orion]

US embargoed Japan of supplies of oil and other raw materials and blockaded Pacific sealanes. That was why Japan raided Pearl Harbor. You think Japan was so free, nothing else better to do even after being bogged down in China? If the supply lanes kept being shut, Japan would lose their main war in China.

The US did cut off oil before Pearl Habor but the US has already supplied Japan with oil at the onset of the China-Japan war for many years. Moreover not all supplies have been embargoed.

Before Pearl Habour, Japan and US are still trading with one another and there are diplomatic exchanges. That is why there are many demonstrations to boycott Japanese products pior to pearl habour.

It is undeniable that the US been supplying raw materials against Chinese for many years. The US isn't always the good guys. They have imperial ambitions and want to keep China weak.