Vikram Nair's u-turn

[Kinana]

It actually turned out to be a fluke that the two figures came to be very close. The important difference seems to have been lost on Singapore, due to the way the PAP has twisted the WP's arguments.

The Review C'ttee came to the figure by a top down approach that was derived from the PAP's. The WP came to the fig from a bottoms up or people up approach. From a moral perspective, WP had the moral high ground, arguing from the basis that all Ministers start from being MPs first.

With the WP's approach, there is a consistent link to the lower income section of the pop and Ministers shld get paid higher only when they can pull up the lower income levels. This will make the govt ministers work harder for the people.

The PAP's approach allows them to 'cheat' by pushing up the top echelons which is not that difficult to do. Import more billionaires, more Wall St type CEOs and businesses and voila! you have it, the top median will go up and so will the pay of Ministers. It is a perverse approach.

The PAP can and will see the Ministerial salaries move up faster and widen the income gaps. The WP's approach will anchor their pays to the ground. This time around, the diff betw the 2 figs may not be much; but mark my words, compare again at the next salary review using both approaches. I bet you that the RC's approach a.k.a PAP's approach will see the income gap moving farther apart faster.

And Vikram exposed the WP for holding back from the Review Comittee for selfish political purposes.
Gerald ended up being caught and even contradicted himself and his own WP colleague and even their own earlier campaign speeches during the elections.
Not only that, Teo exposed Gerald for his unpreparedness and ignorance of what MX9 really is about.
Gerlad claimed he had no privy to it when it can all be found on the net.

 

[Kinana]

Like I said, I don't have to be precise. It was close, similar, same whatever - the key issue was that he was trying to paint the impression that the WP agreed with PAP not the other way round. You watched the debate and saw that VN stood up after GG had presented the paper and said "Isn't that close/similar" - what picture was that painting.

You tried to distort what Vikram said and tried to paint him as some sort of snake while the real distorter is you. What else?

 

[Perspective]

You tried to distort what Vikram said and tried to paint him as some sort of snake while the real distorter is you. What else?

Yes, one last thing. Children shouldn't argue.

 

[Kinana]

I presented the truth, you distorted it and I exposed your folly. What else?

Can I suggest that you stop lying to us Singaporeans?

 

[Zombie]

Not only that, Teo exposed Gerald for his unpreparedness and ignorance of what MX9 really is about.
Gerlad claimed he had no privy to it when it can all be found on the net.

i went to the govt website to search for "MX9" but got zero result

can you show me where it is on the net? how reliable is the source?

 

[Kinana]

Try google MX9 salary scale.

 

[Zombie]

Try google MX9 salary scale.

google and you get mostly post-debate info...

i am talking about the source...

please help

 

[zhihau]

please help

bro,

me did a lil' CSI, found these 2 sites, how reliable they are, me is clueless.

http://forums.salary.sg/income-jobs/885-compare-civil-service-salary-5.html

http://www.salarysingapore.com/civil-service-pay-scale-in-singapore.html

 

[bullfrog]

I dont think you appreciate the profoundness of these arguments we are making. Singaporeans deserve the truth that PAP liars dont reveal.

I presented the truth, you distorted it and I exposed your folly. What else?

Can I suggest that you stop lying to us Singaporeans?

 

[scroobal]

Lets all be frank here.

WP did screw Up with salary debate. It was not a fluke that the figures became close. The PAP more or less knew WP would not ask for drastic cuts because of their non-confrontational approah and guessed right. The committee must have known WP position during representation porocess. It was a major tactical error by the WP. No point sugar-coating it. I am sure that GG being a gentleman would agree. He is also new. It will certainly temper the WP to be smarter, stronger and more wily in such sensitive matters going forward. A valuable lesson.

As for Nigerian Nair, he is a dishonest arsehole who tried to distory CSM's position, having fallen thru a hole, tried to act smart and theathen to sue. Now falling into a deeper hole.

I can tell you this little arsehole was called up and given a lesson on basic politics. He was also told to fix it and therefore had make a tacit but a clear apology to CSM. This prick did not realise that CSM has tremendous appeal to those who traditionally support the PAP. Between CSM and Nigerian Nair anyone with an ounce of political acumen will know insulting CSM or questioning his integrity is playing into the race arena. The same playground rules have been in place when dealing with Malay and Muslim matters. No non-malay PAP MP is authorised to deal with malay and muslim matters without checking with the whip and no permission will be given.

 

[scroobal]

I don't know why you bother.

The PAP will distort, mis represent etc 99 times out of 100 but this prick will take that correct one and make a mountain out of molehill.

If you argue with him continously, he will lose conventration and his mouth gripping around his local PAP MP's dick will losen and he will be upset. Do you want that on your shoulders.

Yes, one last thing. Children shouldn't argue.

 

[Kinana]

As we can clearly see, it wasn't vikram who distorted but yu.

Vikram highlighted the inconsistencies and contradictions of statements made by WP MPs and they kena tng kor in public, thats why you are so sore and need to distort his words. BTW there is no U turn at all on Viki's part, don't distort again. We singaporeans are not so dumb for you to fool.

cheers

 

[brocoli]

As we can clearly see, it wasn't vikram who distorted but yu.

why didnt he whack denise phua for proposing higher tax ...... the bitch really deserve a slap...

if this guy is so principled, he should whack denise phua as well ..... and he shouldnt have flipflop now

.... why do you need to be an apologist for a flipflop who doesnt even stand for his own stance.... why are you such a cocksucker?

and you still haven answer my rebuttal in the HDB thread....

at least gerald didnt flip flop and say Mx9 is a mistake...

I too think that CSM make a mistake in asking for more spending but the mistake is in not identifying which specific area need more....

instead he choose to get personal and question csm intention and cominng back now....
that is a really low blow... he deserve whatever tongue lashing he got .... even Chua Lee Hong sneer at him in the next day ST

he is really a siau kau... totally not politically astute at all....

the politically astute are those like Tin tin, denise Phua and Lily Neo who tried to outleft the left..... yes even tin tin is more politically astute than him... can see she change many of her stance liao....

What I am unimpressed with is now his u-turn on his approach.

Personally, I have no issue with any PAP MP firing opposition MPs as long as you have your facts right.

exactly

lky would nv have flip flop...at most he stand corrected...

 

[Kinana]

What has higher tax got to do with the salary debate? Where is the contradiction? You don't even know what a contradiction is my fren.

Whacking that FT Chen was correct. How can Chen call for more spending with no specific? Anyone can do that you know?

 

[kingrant]

That would be the strawman tactic in argument.

I am not impressed by Vikram's approach to WP MPs but only because he takes to the old trick of distorting his opponent's position then attack the distorted position. T

 

[brocoli]

What has higher tax got to do with the salary debate? Where is the contradiction? You don't even know what a contradiction is my fren.

didnt she ask for higher tax to fund more social spending during her budget speech which is exactly what csm propose.... if you are so ignorant please STFU and GTFO

 

[Kinana]

There was no strawman attack involved.
And if indeed it wa s starwman attack, why aren't WP MPs smart enough to expose it.

Seems like you don't even know what is a strawman attack nor followed the debates in parliament.

 

[kingrant]

Good point. Then he wanted to sue TOC for saying that he was "taking a dig" at CSM. Is "taking digs" sueable for slander? what type of Indian degree is that?

Vikram admits to "taking a dig at" fellow MP Chen Show Mao in Parliament. He wasn't showing proper decorum for an occasion as solemn as Parliament. He ought to have been censured by Speaker of Parliament.

He did compare CSM's proposal of "helping the poor" to "Nigerian scam". And now in his own words, he was "taking a dig at" CSM. It's a confirmation that he was just being mischievous in Parliament when a subject as important as helping the poor was being discussed.

So why did he even threaten to sue TOC for something that arose from his personal mischief ? If Vikram is man enough, he should accept TOC's invitation to reply to TOC. If he felt he was wrong to have compared CSM's proposal with "Nigerian scam" (or worse than a Nigerian scam), then he should perhaps apologize to Parliament as well as CSM.

 

[Kinana]

didnt she ask for higher tax to fund more social spending during her budget speech which is exactly what csm propose.... if you are so ignorant please STFU and GTFO

Asking for higher tax is different from asking for more spending.
In the case of Denise, the focus was on taxation while the claim and focus by Chen was not adequate spending which he can't even be specific. Its a shame

 

[brocoli]

Asking for higher tax is different from asking for more spending.
In the case of Denise, the focus was on taxation while the claim and focus by Chen was not adequate spending which he can't even be specific. Its a shame

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_771944.html
Tax rich more to fund social spending, says Denise Phua

The rich in Singapore were eyed by Ms Denise Phua (Moulmein-Kallang GRC) on Tuesday as a possible source of funds to pay for increased social spending.

Make them pay more income tax, she suggested, pointing out that the rate for top earners is 'way below' those in countries such as the Nordic nations, Australia, New Zealand, China and the United States.

It is 20 per cent for those making more than $320,000 a year in Singapore, while in the other countries, the rates range from 30 per cent to 50 per cent, she said.

Noting that Singapore reportedly has the highest proportion of millionaires in the world, she said: 'Perhaps those who are most blessed can be persuaded to bear more responsibility for the society in which they live.'


which part of the above dun you understand...???

the problem with CSM is he doesnt have the guts to ask for higher tax directly but only imply it....

but the claim and focus by VN was not targetting the part of adequate spending which he can't even be specific.
he get personal about CSM intention of helping
Its a shame your arguement is as weak as VN and CSM...

you are pathetic.... fishing for stuffs to humtum... passing off my criticism as VN and your own .... pathetic... now if you have some integrity... please whack denise phua for trying to steal from the rich.... because this is what you say earlier...

That is actually a good model indeed.
If people want to be generous towards the poor and needy, let them be generous with their own money and not force govt to use other people's money to be generous while they pay nothing much.