To all Sg fugitives in Thailand : Is Ramkamhaeng a nice place to live ?

[Khun Ying Pojaman]

Guys, assuming that money is not an issue at this point of time, if you're settling down in Thailand, would you prefer to live in a big condo (either penthouse or duplex unit) complete with modern facilities and security or a Moo Baan ?

As a Singaporean I have always dreamed about living in a Moo Baan, but to be honest condo offers more security and social life for a foreigner. What say you ?

 

[Narong Wongwan]

Guys, assuming that money is not an issue at this point of time, if you're settling down in Thailand, would you prefer to live in a big condo (either penthouse or duplex unit) complete with modern facilities and security or a Moo Baan ?

As a Singaporean I have always dreamed about living in a Moo Baan, but to be honest condo offers more security and social life for a foreigner. What say you ?

By moo baan you mean a house? I would choose a condo.

 

[middaydog]

I would choose a condo.

Maha Nakorn Condo_ 300m Baht

 

[Froggy]

My answer to you is very clear

#1 Reasonable condo NOT IN Sukhumvit/Sathorn/Silom area ok? Say in Ratchayothin area 60 sqm 1 bedroom cost about 2-3mil. Two bedrooms about 100qwm easily 5 to 8 million.

#2 Lets come back to landed in Ramintra, Ramkhampaeng, Wongwaen, Minburi areas, cluster housing type meaning: Security guards ; clubhouse ; gym ; estate management etc same same condo for facilities. But land size 200-350 sqm and buildup 160 - 180 sqm usually with 2 parking spaces cost 6 - 8 mil.

#3 You still have a 3rd choice. Instead of buying a housed already built for you by developer why not buy a land inside a cluster housing development and build your own house? If you look hard enough you should be able to find something reasonable price. In Minburi there are still land going for 25,000 THB for a sqwa or 4sqm but then it usually comes in a rai that is 1600sqm so it will easily cost 10mil THB for the land but then for 1600sqm its damn big la. Building cost is another say 5mil THB for a very big house of about 300sqm. (Note for a comfortable size will be land size 70sqwa (280sqm) with 2 storey house 200 sqm build-in). I went for this choice and was very lucky to find a very good location in Ramintra/Minburi. Be ready in 1.5 yrs.

The choice is so clear between #1 and #2 should be #2 right? Only problem is foreigners cannot own so must get your palayia to buy or company.

Guys, assuming that money is not an issue at this point of time, if you're settling down in Thailand, would you prefer to live in a big condo (either penthouse or duplex unit) complete with modern facilities and security or a Moo Baan ?

As a Singaporean I have always dreamed about living in a Moo Baan, but to be honest condo offers more security and social life for a foreigner. What say you ?

 

[Froggy]

In up country Moo Bann literally mean village, kampong.

In Bangkok Moo Baan usually mean a cluster of houses built by a developer with condo facilities like security, gym, swimming pool etc etc.

People still want to stay in condo because of convenience to get to work as condos usually build along MRTs. Now a days also more and more old people who has money moving to condos because ease of taking care of house as landed property may be too big for them. Also condos very often near shopping malls.

By moo baan you mean a house? I would choose a condo.

 

[Froggy]

Maha Nakorn Condo_ 300m Baht

Ding Ding Bah mak mak

 

[Narong Wongwan]

In up country Moo Bann literally mean village, kampong.

In Bangkok Moo Baan usually mean a cluster of houses built by a developer with condo facilities like security, gym, swimming pool etc etc.

People still want to stay in condo because of convenience to get to work as condos usually build along MRTs. Now a days also more and more old people who has money moving to condos because ease of taking care of house as landed property may be too big for them. Also condos very often near shopping malls.

So i guess i am an old person then.....but not in the league of owning a Maha Nakorn Condo though.....
Thank you for teaching me a new word today หมู่บ้าน

 

[Khun Ying Pojaman]

My answer to you is very clear

Lets put money issue aside. Just in terms of living comfort and convenience, and now coupled with the threat of a sinking BKK and flash flood, if given the choice would you prefer a Moo Baan or a big condo ?

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

if only queen seok duk was here. She lived in many countries before including thailand and can read and write thai.

 

[johnny333]

My answer to you is very clear

#1 Reasonable condo NOT IN Sukhumvit/Sathorn/Silom area ok? Say in Ratchayothin area 60 sqm 1 bedroom cost about 2-3mil. Two bedrooms about 100qwm easily 5 to 8 million.

#2 Lets come back to landed in Ramintra, Ramkhampaeng, Wongwaen, Minburi areas, cluster housing type meaning: Security guards ; clubhouse ; gym ; estate management etc same same condo for facilities. But land size 200-350 sqm and buildup 160 - 180 sqm usually with 2 parking spaces cost 6 - 8 mil.

#3 You still have a 3rd choice. Instead of buying a housed already built for you by developer why not buy a land inside a cluster housing development and build your own house? If you look hard enough you should be able to find something reasonable price. In Minburi there are still land going for 25,000 THB for a sqwa or 4sqm but then it usually comes in a rai that is 1600sqm so it will easily cost 10mil THB for the land but then for 1600sqm its damn big la. Building cost is another say 5mil THB for a very big house of about 300sqm. (Note for a comfortable size will be land size 70sqwa (280sqm) with 2 storey house 200 sqm build-in). I went for this choice and was very lucky to find a very good location in Ramintra/Minburi. Be ready in 1.5 yrs.

The choice is so clear between #1 and #2 should be #2 right? Only problem is foreigners cannot own so must get your palayia to buy or company.

Why won't you consider a condo in the Sukhumvit/Sathorn/Silom area Is it because of the high cost? How much are we talking about?

From what I understand foreigners aren't allowed to buy land/house am I right? Heard of some kind of loophole some foreigners are using by buying under a company but we all know what happened to Ho Ching

 

[Khun Ying Pojaman]

Why won't you consider a condo in the Sukhumvit/Sathorn/Silom area Is it because of the high cost? How much are we talking about?

From what I understand foreigners aren't allowed to buy land/house am I right? Heard of some kind of loophole some foreigners are using by buying under a company but we all know what happened to Ho Ching

Hm....not really talking about where to live. It's more about one's personal preference for condo or Moo Baan, assuming that money is not an issue (though it will always be).

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

guys is it raining everyday in BKK?

I might pop over to phuket when i go BKK but was told that there might be a storm in phuket.

 

[Khun Ying Pojaman]

Companies as a vehicle to own land for a foreigner is not allowed under Thai law

Thai law allows land ownership by a legitimate partly foreign owned Thai company if the foreign shareholding does not exceed 49% in number of shareholders and percentage of shares. It is not allowed for foreigners to use nominee Thai shareholders to create a majority Thai owned company for the purpose of land ownership. The use of nominee shareholders to circumvent the Thailand Land Code Act or Foreign Business Act is illegal and any foreigner setting up a company with nominee shareholders is violating foreign ownership restrictions and creates an unlawful foreign ownership, irrespective the number of shares he owns in the company.

Up to the May 2006 Land Office guidelines aimed at preventing the use of Thai nominee shareholders by foreigners, it was common practice for foreigners to purchase land or condominium beyond the foreign ownership quota through a nominee structured majority Thai owned foreign controlled Thai limited company. As long as the company had a majority Thai shareholdings there were no practical restrictions when purchasing a property and the partly foreign owned company was treated as any other Thai company. Currently the government has issued new regulation preventing circumvention of the law by foreigners through Thai companies and currently this structure is only possible by circumventing the law and regulations.
Is the company foreign or Thai?

In the Land Code Act a company is defined as 'foreign' or 'alien' if more than forty-nine per cent of its capital is owned by foreigners or more than half of whose shareholders are foreigners. Since July 2008 the private limited company must have a minimum of 3 shareholders at all times, and to be considered Thai under the Land Code Act the company must have 2 Thai shareholders opposite 1 foreign shareholder who may hold up to 49 of the shares.

Under the Foreign Business Act a company is deemed foreign if half or more of the juristic person's shares held by foreigners or a juristic person having foreigners investing with a value of half or more of the total capital of the juristic person. A company is still considered Thai under the Foreign Business Act if the company has only 1 Thai shareholder as long as he owns the majority of the shares in the company.

If it is deemed that the partly foreign owned company is using Thai nominee shareholders the company is deemed foreign irrespective the number of shares held by the foreigner and is violating foreign ownership restrictions.

Currently the bar on the use of nominees lies in the source of the capital investments, but there are plans in the Thai government to change the foreign definition of Thai companies to close loopholes in the law.
The main drawbacks and requirements:

* Setting up a company with the purpose to circumvent the laws prohibiting foreign ownership of land or condominium exceeding the foreign ownership quota has an illegal purpose and this structure will in court be deemed void pursuant to sections 150 and Section 172 of the Civil Code and its ownership on behalf of the foreigner is illegal or unlawful.
* Foreigners are restricted from using Thai nominee or proxy shareholders partners in the company. The use of nominees by foreigners is illegal and will lead to unlawful foreign land ownership or unlawful engagement in protected businesses under the Foreign Business Act.
* The foreigner will be a director of a Thai Limited company and will thus be obliged to fulfill his duty as a director, comply with the Foreign Business Act and Alien Employment Act. A foreigner acting on behalf of a company without a work permit could be prosecuted and deported out of Thailand.
* The company must comply with the law and money should pass through the company books, shareholder meetings must be held, minutes of meeting prepared, and yearly accounting must be filed or the director could be liable for fines and even removal from the register of companies.
* The company formation must have a legitimate business purpose which are stated in the company objectives registered with the Business Registration Department and be considered active. A dormant company can be removed from the register for companies.
* The company structure is not immune for future changes in the law or stricter enforcement of existing laws.

New Regulations

Until the May 25 2006 guidelines and July 21 2006 Standard Practice Letter (how to deal with a partly foreign owned company) the practice of the local Land Offices in the tourist resort areas was to investigate only the number of shares held by the foreigner and if the majority of the shareholders were Thai nationals read initial articles in the press...

New regulations restricting the use of Thai nationals as nominee or proxy shareholders:

In case of foreign involvement in a company applying registration of land the land officer must under the new Land Office Guidelines investigate the Thai shareholders. The Thai shareholders must present themselves at the land office and among others supply proof of income and monthly salary they earned. The Thai shareholders must be financially able to actually invest the amount of capital in the company. In case the purchase price is higher than the registered capital of the company this shall mean the source of the capital used for the purchase of the land and not only the registered capital of the company.

Under the new regulations a shareholder can't be the cleaner from the law office setting up the company.

The guidelines order the officials to enforce Section 74 of the Land Code:

Section 74 of the Land Code:

'In recording rights and legal acts by the competent authority under Section 71, the competent authority shall have the power to interrogate the parties and summon persons concerned to give oral testimony or send relevant written evidence as may be necessary and then proceed as may be appropriate under the circumstances. If there is reason to believe the recording of such rights and legal acts is in evasion of the law or there is reason to believe the purchaser is purchasing on behalf of an alien, instructions shall be asked of the Minister whose word shall be final'.

The Business registration rules preventing the use of Thai nominee shareholders also order the Department of Business officials to investigate the Thai shareholders when dealing with registration of a company with more than 40% foreign ownership or when the company has a foreigner managing director. When submitting the application for registration the Thai shareholders must in this case submit evidences showing the source of their investment together with the business registration application.

The planned Foreign Business Act amendments did not yet pass, but the idea was to include voting rights and management as a criterion in defining partly foreign owned companies foreign. Juristic persons incorporated under Thai law which are deemed foreign are not allowed to own land and land owned must be disposed of by the foreigner read ups...

There is still no general restriction on the nationality of directors in a Thai company and foreigners are allowed to control a Thai company, but as every year (section 1152 Civil and Commercial Code) one third or the number nearest to one-third of the directors must retire from office the amendments would also affect existing partly foreign and foreign controlled companies. It would simply make a foreign director ineligible for re-election or ineligible for re-election as the sole director of a Thai company. In case of re-election it would make itself automatically a foreign company!
Beware of the dodgy advice you get in Thailand

Most of the local property law and accounting offices in the tourist areas of Thailand aiming their services at foreigners have the same interest as the real estate agents and fully depend for their income on property sales or have a direct interest in the real estate market. Can you trust them? Not really (read article 'foreign developer setting up his own law firm'). They still suggest loopholes as it generates income, but it is not using a loophole when you transfer land to a 100% Thai owned company and the next day transfer 49% or 39% of the (preference) shares to the foreigner. If the company uses nominees (currently defined in the Land Office guidelines and Business registration rules) or is not in operation or set up to circumvent the law the foreigner is violating the law and could on investigation at a later date be forced to sell the land and will be liable for severe penalties.

The only reason to set up the company without a foreign shareholding is obviously because the land office would not allow registration as the structure is illegal. Despite the complicated lengths some will go to suggest ways around the law, it is all doubtful if not obviously illegal.

Section 100 Land Code Act:

'If a juristic person who acquired land while not within the scope of the provisions of Section 97 and 98 (meaning foreign), but later comes within their scope, the provisions of Section 95 shall apply mutatis mutandis'
Local corruption

The recent land registration rules from the Land Department and Ministry of Interior must effectively prevent the use of nominee structured limited companies by foreigners for land purchase. Though, local land officials may turn a blind eye because of corruption and pressure from leading figures with a financial interest in the property market. The law is actually applied in different ways and you could say that because of corruption on a local level the law and latest regulations are not fully enforced. It is well known that several high-end officials were involved in land transactions or have a direct financial interest in the property market. Just look at the alleged involvement of Thai Rak Thai politicians in forest encroachment and land speculation on the Samui island or a recent Samui land scam involving government men and ranking civil servants. There are many more examples where the officials who must apply the law allow a breach of the law because they have a financial interest in the deal where land is in fact sold to foreign investors operating through a Thai company.

This latest policy change by the government is not the closing or removing of a loophole but enforcement of existing laws. Even though offered by local law and accounting firms, setting up companies with nominee shareholders to own land on behalf of foreigners is and always has been an unlawful evasion of the law. Law enforcement and procedures may change rapidly in Thailand and selective or poor law enforcement in the past is no guarantee for the future.

 

[Narong Wongwan]

During thaksin time there was the ELITE card thingy when members could own land.....now after card demise, wonder what happen to those who bought....

 

[Khun Ying Pojaman]

During thaksin time there was the ELITE card thingy when members could own land.....now after card demise, wonder what happen to those who bought....

By Suchat Sritama
The Nation
Published on May 4, 2011

A decision by the Cabinet yesterday to shut down Thailand Privilege Card Co (TPC), issuer of Thailand Elite Card, was deferred to the next meeting under the new government as the company's dissolution plan was not ready yet, the Ministry of Tourism and Sports said.
This means that the budget of approximately Bt2.5 billion expected to be allocated to cardholders as compensation will be put off until the next government takes over.

The ministry's permanent secretary, Sombat Kuruphan, said the new cabinet would make a final decision as well as take further actions related to the move.

TPC was supposed to send its plans for closure of operations to the minister by yesterday, who would have then sought Cabinet approval.

"TPC did not complete its closure plan so the matter was not discussed at the Cabinet meeting yesterday," Sombat said.

The Cabinet held its last meeting yesterday before the proposed dissolution of the House.

Sombat said the new government would have the liberty to continue operations of the company or shut it down.

On April 26, the Cabinet ordered TPC to close its business and asked the company to seek a compensation budget for member and staff. Most of the Bt2.5 billion budget is expected to be used to compensate cardholders.

The Thailand Elite Card was introduced by former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in 2003 as an exclusive programme aimed at attracting wealthy travellers and business into the Kingdom.

Members are entitled to privileges such as a lifetime visa, unlimited golf and spa usage. The scheme also offers fasttrack immigration and longterm property leases.

The company currently has 2,500 cardholders. Key markets are from Korea, Japan, Taiwan and the Middle East countries.

The company has recorded a loss of Bt1.4 billion.

Sombat said Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva last week ordered the termination of operations and asked the company to return to the Cabinet with plans and budget estimates.

The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT), as a major shareholder of the card project, stated that a budget will be needed to pay off the remaining Bt500 million in registered capital.

TAT Governor Suraphon Sawetseranee said that related officials should also consider the negative impact on Thailand after the project is cancelled.

 

[Narong Wongwan]

yes i meant what happend to those who bought land under this scheme.....forced to sell?

By Suchat Sritama
The Nation
Published on May 4, 2011

A decision by the Cabinet yesterday to shut down Thailand Privilege Card Co (TPC), issuer of Thailand Elite Card, was deferred to the next meeting under the new government as the company's dissolution plan was not ready yet, the Ministry of Tourism and Sports said.
This means that the budget of approximately Bt2.5 billion expected to be allocated to cardholders as compensation will be put off until the next government takes over.

The ministry's permanent secretary, Sombat Kuruphan, said the new cabinet would make a final decision as well as take further actions related to the move.

TPC was supposed to send its plans for closure of operations to the minister by yesterday, who would have then sought Cabinet approval.

"TPC did not complete its closure plan so the matter was not discussed at the Cabinet meeting yesterday," Sombat said.

The Cabinet held its last meeting yesterday before the proposed dissolution of the House.

Sombat said the new government would have the liberty to continue operations of the company or shut it down.

On April 26, the Cabinet ordered TPC to close its business and asked the company to seek a compensation budget for member and staff. Most of the Bt2.5 billion budget is expected to be used to compensate cardholders.

The Thailand Elite Card was introduced by former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in 2003 as an exclusive programme aimed at attracting wealthy travellers and business into the Kingdom.

Members are entitled to privileges such as a lifetime visa, unlimited golf and spa usage. The scheme also offers fasttrack immigration and longterm property leases.

The company currently has 2,500 cardholders. Key markets are from Korea, Japan, Taiwan and the Middle East countries.

The company has recorded a loss of Bt1.4 billion.

Sombat said Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva last week ordered the termination of operations and asked the company to return to the Cabinet with plans and budget estimates.

The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT), as a major shareholder of the card project, stated that a budget will be needed to pay off the remaining Bt500 million in registered capital.

TAT Governor Suraphon Sawetseranee said that related officials should also consider the negative impact on Thailand after the project is cancelled.

 

[Ramseth]

In up country Moo Bann literally mean village, kampong.

Moo baan หมู่บ้าน literally means pig sty but in practice means village.

 

[johnny333]

During thaksin time there was the ELITE card thingy when members could own land.....now after card demise, wonder what happen to those who bought....

Heard about the Elite card but I think many would find it too expensive$$ since it cost
1,500,000 baht + 4,000baht

 

[Khun Ying Pojaman]

yes i meant what happend to those who bought land under this scheme.....forced to sell?

It says:

Members are entitled to privileges such as a lifetime visa, unlimited golf and spa usage. The scheme also offers fasttrack immigration and longterm property leases.

Leases are okay, I supposed.

 

[Ramseth]

Heard about the Elite card but I think many would find it too expensive$$ since it cost
1,500,000 baht + 4,000baht

I was approached for it too, US$25,000 I think, came with visa waiver and some land ownership right. I didn't take it up of course. Too expensive and no point.