The next Lehmen Minibond Saga

[Hangover]

The Emperor's New Clothes

I read in the press that Najib was sincerely wondering why he lost. Up to the final moments, his wife was still happily texting the minister's wives that victory was secured with over 133 votes.

I lost money in both Hyflux and Noble's collapse. Easily more than 56,000 investors (shares, bonds and those using CPF OA accounts) are affected by these two companies, so I truly have no right to complain.

The silence of those in MAS and SGX is deafening indeed. For years, Singaporeans had been indifferent to many issues and wouldn't vote for change unless something affected them directly.

Hyflux has became the largest corporate failure in modern Singapore history (based on the number of investors affected). Let's just hope these losses will bring about a catalyst for change in Singapore.

 

[bart12]

Based on the 2017 annual report, there are 20,104 (N2H) holders.
Based on the IPO allocation table, there are 23,868 (BTWZ) holders.

Many investors will be badly hurt by hyflux bond defaults!!

 

[JohnTan]

The Emperor's New Clothes

I read in the press that Najib was sincerely wondering why he lost. Up to the final moments, his wife was still happily texting the minister's wives that victory was secured with over 133 votes.

I lost money in both Hyflux and Noble's collapse. Easily more than 56,000 investors (shares, bonds and those using CPF OA accounts) are affected by these two companies, so I truly have no right to complain.

The silence of those in MAS and SGX is deafening indeed. For years, Singaporeans had been indifferent to many issues and wouldn't vote for change unless something affected them directly.

Hyflux has became the largest corporate failure in modern Singapore history (based on the number of investors affected). Let's just hope these losses will bring about a catalyst for change in Singapore.

You seem to be quite unlucky when it comes to investing. Perhaps you are better off leaving your money in a bank's fixed deposit. Try our local big banks. They are less likely to collapse. If you can even lose your capital in fixed deposit, then even the heavens can't help you anymore.

 

[Hangover]

Based on the 2017 annual report, there are 20,104 (N2H) holders.
Based on the IPO allocation table, there are 23,868 (BTWZ) holders.

Many investors will be badly hurt by hyflux bond defaults!!

Good sharing. Like the ordinary shares, there are significantly more than 20K people in preference shares (N2H) because many purchased with their CPF account which will only reflect the bank nominee name.

 

[Hangover]

You seem to be quite unlucky when it comes to investing. Perhaps you are better off leaving your money in a bank's fixed deposit. Try our local big banks. They are less likely to collapse.

Yes very true because I don't have lobang from RCs like you, so I got exposures in these low SES investments.

 

[rotiprata]

Good sharing. Like the ordinary shares, there are significantly more than 20K people in preference shares (N2H) because many purchased with their CPF account which will only reflect the bank nominee name.

bro your hangover with hyflux still not over?? .. you must have lost a lot... even OL also can sleep well, you cannot

 

[Hangover]

bro your hangover with hyflux still not over?? .. you must have lost a lot... even OL also can sleep well, you cannot

So many people die with me, I cannot complain rite? haha

 

[rotiprata]

So many people die with me, I cannot complain rite? haha

KPKB will only make you more miserable.... move on lah… you invest in hyflux is your own decision.. cannot blame OL... Hyflux is my competitor, but I do have high regards and respect for OL "Hyflux Boleh" spirit

 

[bart12]

So many people die with me, I cannot complain rite? haha

How many % of your portfolio are in Hyflux and noble? I have been very unlucky in my investment in the past and now I try to diversify so that no single investment is more than 5%..

 

[SNTCK]

How many % of your portfolio are in Hyflux and noble? I have been very unlucky in my investment in the past and now I try to diversify so that no single investment is more than 5%..

I have Hyflux preference share since their ipo and get dividend about 3k+
80 share

I earn a lot from dbs and ocbc about 60-70k

But semb Corp and Marco Polo make me lost big about 40k.

Well. Sometime I also hate myself for keep making stupid mistake

 

[Hangover]

How many % of your portfolio are in Hyflux and noble? I have been very unlucky in my investment in the past and now I try to diversify so that no single investment is more than 5%..

I don't diversify or spread thinly. So it's like 80%.
Don't be like me.

 

[Hangover]

You see, about $2-3billions are lost in Hyflux from the shares, preference shares, perpetuals and vanilla bonds.
Another $3-4 billions are lost in Noble.

So assuming 50,000 people (likely much more) lost a total of $5 billion from these two companies,
on average every one lose $100,000.

Assuming 50000 couples or family (2pax each) got killed, so 100,000 got affected.

 

[Hangover]

I don't perceive people who buys Hyflux preference shares or bonds as speculators.
It is just an alternative fixed income instrument for low SES people who can't afford the $250k a lot secondary market bonds.

 

[SNTCK]

Actually since the company got problem in redeem their preference shares. I should just sell.
But I just want to gamble and think there will be better

Sigh

 

[Hangover]

Actually since the company got problem in redeem their preference shares. I should just sell.
But I just want to gamble and think there will be better

Sigh

I don't perceive people who owns preference shares as gamblers too.
6% yield is not greedy too.

 

[SNTCK]

I don't perceive people who owns preference shares as gamblers too.
6% yield is not greedy too.

Problem is when the company has huge debt and we still buy.

So? Really like a gambling

 

[bart12]

I don't perceive people who buys Hyflux preference shares or bonds as speculators.
It is just an alternative fixed income instrument for low SES people who can't afford the $250k a lot secondary market bonds.

The bond market in Spore is lousy with only a few junk bonds available for retail investors.. I invest primarily in US bonds market because there are tons of choice and u can start as low as 1k.. . Most are graded by credit agencies and there are plenty of liquidity in US bonds market.

 

[bart12]

I have Hyflux preference share since their ipo and get dividend about 3k+
80 share

I earn a lot from dbs and ocbc about 60-70k

But semb Corp and Marco Polo make me lost big about 40k.

Well. Sometime I also hate myself for keep making stupid mistake

Overall you still make some money is very good... nowadays I invest for interest/dividend as passive income ..not too keen on capital gain.. as long as company can pay interest/dividend and don't go bankrupt, I am happy

 

[SNTCK]

Overall you still make some money is very good... nowadays I invest for interest/dividend as passive income ..not too keen on capital gain.. as long as company can pay interest/dividend and don't go bankrupt, I am happy

My semb corp still ok
Marco Polo now at least making profit

Yes. I receive dividend around 15-20K per year

 

[Hangover]

The bond market in Spore is lousy with only a few junk bonds available for retail investors.. I invest primarily in US bonds market because there are tons of choice and u can start as low as 1k.. . Most are graded by credit agencies and there are plenty of liquidity in US bonds market.

Thanks for sharing. I am low SES, no assess to US.

Honestly, Hyflux is not that bad too, just that Maybank holding them hostage now.