Thanks god Sun Yat Sen didn't pick Hokkien as China National Language, can you imagine everywhere you go, these PRC KNNCCB here n there (Chinatown, hawker center, bus, MRT, school, shopping mail, airport....) :p
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Tang Dynasty people did not speak Mandarin !
- Thread starter Extremist
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Knn why he keep chanting my name !!! KNNBCCB :oIo:
So, we are all losers with some hiding in enclaves to seek sanctuary.
Why are we so proud to be associated to Tang?
This is a great thread - much thought and scholarship. Even Kinana has risen above his usual rants. Congratulations. Let me add a little of what I know.
Not only were 19th century Chinese emigrants to the West, especially the US, mainly from the southern provinces, most were in fact from just 4 counties in Guangdong, collectively known as Seiyup (四邑 - siyi in hypy). They were pressed into working on the east west railroad that made the US possible. This is why for a long time, the US perception of the Chinese language was not Mandarin but Seiyup.
This brings me to the common misconception that the southern provinces had one language each, i.e. Guangdong had Cantonese, Fujian had Fujianhua, etc. In fact, the southern provinces were extremely diverse linguistically. The variants of Seiyup, for instance, are incomprehensible to most other Cantonese speakers. The same can be said for the more distinct forms of Shun Tuck (Shunde in hypy). Similar distinctions can be found in Fujian, Guangxi, Anhui, etc.
One could never hope to learn, let alone master all these languages. For that, I'm happy that there is a common Mandarin to facilitate communication among Chinese people in China. But what I cannot understand is why the PAPzis under LKY chose the option of linguisticide - murdering these other languages, or else denigrating them to the level of market dialects. This is cultural destruction.
Not only were 19th century Chinese emigrants to the West, especially the US, mainly from the southern provinces, most were in fact from just 4 counties in Guangdong, collectively known as Seiyup (四邑 - siyi in hypy). They were pressed into working on the east west railroad that made the US possible. This is why for a long time, the US perception of the Chinese language was not Mandarin but Seiyup.
This brings me to the common misconception that the southern provinces had one language each, i.e. Guangdong had Cantonese, Fujian had Fujianhua, etc. In fact, the southern provinces were extremely diverse linguistically. The variants of Seiyup, for instance, are incomprehensible to most other Cantonese speakers. The same can be said for the more distinct forms of Shun Tuck (Shunde in hypy). Similar distinctions can be found in Fujian, Guangxi, Anhui, etc.
One could never hope to learn, let alone master all these languages. For that, I'm happy that there is a common Mandarin to facilitate communication among Chinese people in China. But what I cannot understand is why the PAPzis under LKY chose the option of linguisticide - murdering these other languages, or else denigrating them to the level of market dialects. This is cultural destruction.
So, we are all losers with some hiding in enclaves to seek sanctuary.
Why are we so proud to be associated to Tang?
it's called denial. and a clueless sense of misplaced nostalgia and pride. just like sinkies pining for good old days of the 80s before the cuntry was invaded by hordes of neh, tiong and pinoy.
I wish to set the record straight.
Li Bian 李昪 was an orphan who usurped power in the State of Wu in 937 AD during the "Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms" 五代十国 period. He later proclaimed himself to be the legitimate successor of the Tang Dynasty and he established the Southern Tang Dynasty. There is no evidence to prove that he was a direct descendant of the royal family of the Tang Dynasty.
Conclusion: The Southern Tang Dynasty was not a continuation of the Tang Dynasty.
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Mandarin Chinese and its many variants is the mother tongue of the Chinese people living in north, central and southwestern China. Incidentally these regions are also the ancestral land of the Han Chinese for thousands of years. As for the southern provinces of Guangdong and Fujian, the original inhabitants of these regions are not Han Chinese but the ancient Yue tribes. Over the centuries Han settlers from the north intermixed with the natives and the local population gradually adopted Han culture and custom and finally became totally sinified.
So Mandarin actually is the native language of the Han Chinese and not that of people inhabiting in the southern provinces which therefore should be encouraged to retain their respective native languages. Mandarin is only a unifying tool and the central government will never force the use of Mandarin in the south. Chiang Kai-Shek tried that when KMT fled to Taiwan in 1949 but failed in his effort to replace the local languages with Mandarin.
So Mandarin actually is the native language of the Han Chinese and not that of people inhabiting in the southern provinces which therefore should be encouraged to retain their respective native languages. Mandarin is only a unifying tool and the central government will never force the use of Mandarin in the south. Chiang Kai-Shek tried that when KMT fled to Taiwan in 1949 but failed in his effort to replace the local languages with Mandarin.
Beijing Opera not very popular here, only for the elite. Hokkien, Teochew, Cantonese & lesser others, like Hainanese, Hakka, Hock Chew ( I hope I got this right)...& there was the "mong kar chng " or puppet shows, in dialects...
Beijing Opera only for those private viewing or play houses in Chinatown, North Bridge Rd areas...
Now we have PAP Opera...
Can you elaborate? Thank you.
Unfortunately hokkkien in Sg is seen as low class and mostly spoken by lower educated ppl and famous for its swear words.
Seiyup or Taishanese..were the bulk of the people moving to North America...Australia...Seiyup has almost or completely died here, I have not heard Shun Tuck spoken for ages here..for the people of that generation have all died..even the "seiyup" people, if I am not mistaken, most of the "hong Tau Ping"..the women that worked in the construction industry in SINgapore were mostly "seiyup". My ancestors were from that region of Taishan, Gongzhou, I am the last of the "dinosaur" that can speak a little "seiyup", understand simple sentences..
No...there were a large population of Cantonese living in what is known as cholon, aka Saigon & now Ho Chi Minh City...the vietnamese maybe incorporated some Cantonese into their spoken language..
This is a very informative thread even though the first post is obviously debunked in in other forums/blogs where it was originally posted in this blog: http://kosongcafe.blogspot.sg/2009/01/hokkiens-connection-with-tang-dynasty.html
Like you, I believe it is a cultural influence.
I am open to a different view, except UFO.
Though I am not a Chinese. But i like to watch Teochew opera during those kampong days. May not really ustand wat they r saying/singing. But their high pitch tone sounds nice. Definitely sounds nicer than those beijing or mandarin opera, imo.
Never neglect or lost touch of ur own dialect. Be proud of where u come fm. Use or converse it at home. Pity most of the Chinese children nowadays. They cant even converse with their grand parents who cant speak Mandarin...
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白话 is the term used by non native Cantonese to describe Cantonese language
Thought I share with you guys. A pretty lengthy disourse.....http://blog.hiddenharmonies.org/2011/07/on-chinese-language-dialects-and-chinese-people/
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