Tang Dynasty people did not speak Mandarin !

[Jah_rastafar_I]

thank god i am not hokkien but teochew so more refined.

 

[eatshitndie]

thank god i am not hokkien but teochew so more refined.

teochew nang, kar chng ang ang (because they sit around too often)
hokkien nang, kar chng sey tang (because they shit around too often)

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

teochew nang, kar chng ang ang (because they sit around too often)
hokkien nang, kar chng sey tang (because they shit around too often)

Hip hip hooray!!!

 

[Orion]

Did you do any research to back your views?

From many sources in the Internet (see links below), many linguistics experts think that southern dialects like Hokkien, Teochew and Cantonese resemble ancient Middle Chinese (中古汉语) more than Mandarin. Ancient Middle Chinese is the language spoken during the Northern-Southern (more than 1000 ago), Sui and Tang dynasties. Also, Tang poems rhyme better when recited in the southern dialects than in Mandarin.

So how can your premise that the southern dialects have more in common with the languages spoken by the Nan Yue and Min Yue people than the Tang people be true unless it is the Nan Yue and Min Yue tribes who wrote the Tang poems?

How can the southern dialects resemble ancient Middle Chinese (中古汉语) more than Mandarin if they had more in common with the Nan Yue/Min Yue tribes?

A lot of Singaporean Chinese nowadays are Yellow Bananas. They learn everything they know from Western sources, and as a result, their thinking is also always one sided - always from the Western perspective. They don't even know that ancient Chinese was once a world superpower, just like England in the 19th century and USA in the 20th century and now. In ancient times, China (meaning Han Chinese) was so much more advanced than its neighbors and most of the rest of the world that it is impossible that minority tribes like Nan Yue/Min Yue and Vietnam could influence the Chinese immigrants more than vice versa. During the Tang dynasty, Japan and Korea would send their scholars to China to study, just like we send our scholars to USA or UK to study nowadays.

As recent as half a century ago, inter-dialect marriage was frowned upon. The Teochews would avoid marrying the Hokkiens or Cantonese and vice versa. So you could imagine that inter-racial marriage was taboo. Now, do you think the Chinese who fled from the Central Plains to the south more than 1,000 years ago would inter-marry with the Yue and Min minority tribes in great numbers? Remember that the Chinese were much more advanced than anybody else at that time. Do you think the local tribes could influence the Chinese settlers more than vice versa? Read my
earlier post on the terms the Chinese use to refer to foreigners (or non-Chinese).

Regarding the Cantonese, some said that they were descendents from the 50,000 Qin soldiers Qin Shih Huan (the first Chinese Emperor) sent to Guangdong more than 2000 years ago.

Some said that the Chinese immigration to the areas now occupied by the Teochews, Hokkiens actually started in the Jin dynasty (after then 3 Kingdoms) - way before the Tang dynasty. But the mass immigration probably occurred during the Tang dynasty.

Only you read your history books.

At the beginning of the Tang Dynasty in 61X AD, Fujian is still a undeveloped place unlike the more populous area of Jiangsu and Zhejiang where the Grand Canal starts. It pure nonsense that Fujian Min Nam or a Yue Language is used as the official language from a under developed place.

And also, Tang Ren Jie don't comes from the Tang Dynasty. Walao. ABCs said that and LKY mention that once and he soon delete it from his memoirs. At that time, it is a pre-dynasty name for Tangshan. Tangshan means 中国，before the term 中国 officially comes into use when the Qing Dynasty is overthrown.

唐山，简称唐，唐山是亚非国家和美洲国家对中国大陆的一种称呼，东南亚和美洲华侨对中国自称，同时也是台湾方言中对中国大陆的一种称呼。

Tang Ren Jie means 中国人街 in modern usage.

Vomit blood. It have nothing to do with the Tang Dynasty. The young nowadays...

 

[watchman8]

Only you read your history books.

At the beginning of the Tang Dynasty in 61X AD, Fujian is still a undeveloped place unlike the more populous area of Jiangsu and Zhejiang where the Grand Canal starts. It pure nonsense that Fujian Min Nam or a Yue Language is used as the official language from a under developed place.

And also, Tang Ren Jie don't comes from the Tang Dynasty. Walao. ABCs said that and LKY mention that once and he soon delete it from his memoirs. At that time, it is a pre-dynasty name for Tangshan. Tangshan means 中国，before the term 中国 officially comes into use when the Qing Dynasty is overthrown.

唐山，简称唐，唐山是亚非国家和美洲国家对中国大陆的一种称呼，东南亚和美洲华侨对中国自称，同时也是台湾方言中对中国大陆的一种称呼。

Tang Ren Jie means 中国人街 in modern usage.

Vomit blood. It have nothing to do with the Tang Dynasty. The young nowadays...

ah, nowadays people believe internet like they believe the bible

 

[The_Hypocrite]

I posted this in the other thread and I am posting it here,..

I dont see your reasoning as valid. The reason why the theory that the ancient Tang language is similar to Cantonese is cause the southern regions was flooded with the Tang people escaping the collapse of the Tang Dynasty. The natives of those areas were overwhelmed by the Han Chinese going into the area. Many of the natives of the region went into Vietnam and Cambodia. I dont believe that the Tang would assimilate into the culture and the language of the Southern natives. They would just speak the Tang language etc. Someone also say the southern regions were under developed. That means less people,,,so why would the Tang people (who see themselves as the pinnacle Empire) assimilate into a 'native' culture? The southern natives were displaced by the Tang people. That explains why Cantonese language is the closest to the Tang language as the people who dominate southern China was from the Tang.

Only you read your history books.

At the beginning of the Tang Dynasty in 61X AD, Fujian is still a undeveloped place unlike the more populous area of Jiangsu and Zhejiang where the Grand Canal starts. It pure nonsense that Fujian Min Nam or a Yue Language is used as the official language from a under developed place.

And also, Tang Ren Jie don't comes from the Tang Dynasty. Walao. ABCs said that and LKY mention that once and he soon delete it from his memoirs. At that time, it is a pre-dynasty name for Tangshan. Tangshan means 中国，before the term 中国 officially comes into use when the Qing Dynasty is overthrown.

唐山，简称唐，唐山是亚非国家和美洲国家对中国大陆的一种称呼，东南亚和美洲华侨对中国自称，同时也是台湾方言中对中国大陆的一种称呼。

Tang Ren Jie means 中国人街 in modern usage.

Vomit blood. It have nothing to do with the Tang Dynasty. The young nowadays...

 

[watchman8]

I posted this in the other thread and I am posting it here,..

I dont see your reasoning as valid. The reason why the theory that the ancient Tang language is similar to Cantonese is cause the southern regions was flooded with the Tang people escaping the collapse of the Tang Dynasty. The natives of those areas were overwhelmed by the Han Chinese going into the area. Many of the natives of the region went into Vietnam and Cambodia. I dont believe that the Tang would assimilate into the culture and the language of the Southern natives. They would just speak the Tang language etc. Someone also say the southern regions were under developed. That means less people,,,so why would the Tang people (who see themselves as the pinnacle Empire) assimilate into a 'native' culture? The southern natives were displaced by the Tang people. That explains why Cantonese language is the closest to the Tang language as the people who dominate southern China was from the Tang.

Where do you confirm that there was mass exodus of Han people to canton area at end of Tang Dynasty?

After tang, china was in succession of warlords rule, until Song Dynasty took over. The people largely stayed put, unless there is major famine in their province. The Mongolian hordes came at end of song, and even that, there was no major exodus of people escaping to canton.

The Ming dynasty came after the short lived yuan dynasty, followed by Qing dynasty.

I would venture to postulate that the inner centre china dialects found in xi an, wuhan and chengdu are probably the closest to ancient Chinese.

The dialects of coastal regions like canton and hainan probably have greater influences from Indochina and Philippines. Similarly, the dialects in harbin and shenyang has more Korean influences.

 

[scbccb]

Now, the whole world knows you have a pinkish ass. What do you think?

thank god i am not hokkien but teochew so more refined.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Now, the whole world knows you have a pinkish ass. What do you think?

That's perfectly fine cos i don't expose my ass in the open.

 

[blackmondy]

Guess KNNCCB has been used thousands of years back then...

 

[The_Hypocrite]

I would not be surprised if it did.

Guess KNNCCB has been used thousands of years back then...

 

[Orion]

I posted this in the other thread and I am posting it here,..

I dont see your reasoning as valid. The reason why the theory that the ancient Tang language is similar to Cantonese is cause the southern regions was flooded with the Tang people escaping the collapse of the Tang Dynasty. The natives of those areas were overwhelmed by the Han Chinese going into the area. Many of the natives of the region went into Vietnam and Cambodia. I dont believe that the Tang would assimilate into the culture and the language of the Southern natives. They would just speak the Tang language etc. Someone also say the southern regions were under developed. That means less people,,,so why would the Tang people (who see themselves as the pinnacle Empire) assimilate into a 'native' culture? The southern natives were displaced by the Tang people. That explains why Cantonese language is the closest to the Tang language as the people who dominate southern China was from the Tang.

It is not as easy to flee from one place to another in those days, especially from Farmers. There are multiple dynasties and Kingdoms that followed the collapse of the Tang. Do you think it is so easy to escape from one kingdom to another?

 

[The_Hypocrite]

During the Tang dynasty, Canton was already an established port and was China,'s gate way to the world. Not surprise if the roads and traffic to Canton was already established. When ever a dynasty fell. Its common for the people to flee south. Southern china was easier to defend due to the mountains n rivers that seperate north n south. I think its the yangtze river that seperate the north n south. Southern china was also the main argricultural hub. That is why there was a southern song and southern ming dynasty. Moving south and following the Emperor n escaping the tragedy that befalls the north is not hard at all.

One other point the migration of the han chinese from the north to the south has been going on for 2000 years. The north is not very hospitable and was becoming more inhospitable due to climate change. Its not like people flee only when the dynasty collapse. They move about all the time. Southern China was undeveloped so the han chinese just move downwards.

It is not as easy to flee from one place to another in those days, especially from Farmers. There are multiple dynasties and Kingdoms that followed the collapse of the Tang. Do you think it is so easy to escape from one kingdom to another?

 

[Devil Within]

During the Tang dynasty, Canton was already an established port and was China,'s gate way to the world. Not surprise if the roads and traffic to Canton was already established. When ever a dynasty fell. Its common for the people to flee south. Southern china was easier to defend due to the mountains n rivers that seperate north n south. I think its the yangtze river that seperate the north n south. Southern china was also the main argricultural hub. That is why there was a southern song and southern ming dynasty. Moving south and following the Emperor n escaping the tragedy that befalls the north is not hard at all.

One other point the migration of the han chinese from the north to the south has been going on for 2000 years. The north is not very hospitable and was becoming more inhospitable due to climate change. Its not like people flee only when the dynasty collapse. They move about all the time. Southern China was undeveloped so the han chinese just move downwards.

Yes, you are right. It's a historical fact that northern Han Chinese ran to the South during the war in the old days. The Hakkas were one of those remained in their traditions of migrating to the south.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

The 'Kan' people were the last to reach the South. Guess they like the north more.

Yes, you are right. It's a historical fact that northern Han Chinese ran to the South during the war in the old days. The Hakkas were one of those remained in their traditions of migrating to the south.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Where do u think the word Tong Shan comes from? It came from reference to the Tang Dynasty.

Only you read your history books.

At the beginning of the Tang Dynasty in 61X AD, Fujian is still a undeveloped place unlike the more populous area of Jiangsu and Zhejiang where the Grand Canal starts. It pure nonsense that Fujian Min Nam or a Yue Language is used as the official language from a under developed place.

And also, Tang Ren Jie don't comes from the Tang Dynasty. Walao. ABCs said that and LKY mention that once and he soon delete it from his memoirs. At that time, it is a pre-dynasty name for Tangshan. Tangshan means 中国，before the term 中国 officially comes into use when the Qing Dynasty is overthrown.

唐山，简称唐，唐山是亚非国家和美洲国家对中国大陆的一种称呼，东南亚和美洲华侨对中国自称，同时也是台湾方言中对中国大陆的一种称呼。

Tang Ren Jie means 中国人街 in modern usage.

Vomit blood. It have nothing to do with the Tang Dynasty. The young nowadays...

 

[watchman8]

During the Tang dynasty, Canton was already an established port and was China,'s gate way to the world. Not surprise if the roads and traffic to Canton was already established. When ever a dynasty fell. Its common for the people to flee south. Southern china was easier to defend due to the mountains n rivers that seperate north n south. I think its the yangtze river that seperate the north n south. Southern china was also the main argricultural hub. That is why there was a southern song and southern ming dynasty. Moving south and following the Emperor n escaping the tragedy that befalls the north is not hard at all.

One other point the migration of the han chinese from the north to the south has been going on for 2000 years. The north is not very hospitable and was becoming more inhospitable due to climate change. Its not like people flee only when the dynasty collapse. They move about all the time. Southern China was undeveloped so the han chinese just move downwards.

There are many places in china to hide from the Mongolians. Sichuan, fujian, hainan, Taiwan, guizhou etc. there is no special reason or historical evidence that all the tang officials escape to canton only.

 

[chootchiew]

Be proud to use KKNCCB too, it evolves from Tang dynasty.