Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party. Time to stop the Reform?

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear GMS

Just wry observations :_)) after all I am one of the few that can profess zero political ambition in any form




Locke

Anyway, frankly speaking, WP has missed a gem in Tony Tan. I have met him, talked to him and work with him on this little Happy Camper project. A very intelligent and compassionate guy... a very rare combination of character nowadays.

Most importantly, he has the necessary political acumen though may not be an impressive speaker. But that could be easily trained and strengthened upon in time to come.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[sinren67]

We used to say PKMS exports Malay candidates to opp camps that enable them to contest GRCs, now i've learnt that WP exports elites and scholars to others opp camps and claim that it's a good thing for diversity causes.

 

[scroobal]

I was surprised to find out today that Tony has joined and left WP within a few months. A person of that background must have strong reasons to do that. There are too many signals as well. Contrary to Perspective portraying WP as germination lab for budding politicians, I am of the opinion that it going back to the old days of one man, one show - pretty much the local landscape. Their reticence is going to bite them in the arse.

I spent time on RP website and they have done a dazzling job. I just hope that WP repeat the 2006 surprise of having some pretty good chaps and covering most of the bases.

WP seriously need an image consultant - for its web, its party uniform and a lot more buzz.

Dear Scroobal

If you believe Perspective, you would believe that the opposition are a happy bunch of brothers and not really in competition with each other for scarce political talent, leaders and or worker bees, right and pigs will fly. People like Tony and wife are the equivalent of Political Gold Diamonds Dynamite :_)), 2 for the price of one :_)).

 

[Hawkeye1819]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

Looks like there are more choices now for aspiring candidates in terms of which party to join, so the party that can project a more progressive image will over time get ahead of the pack.

The problem in Singapore is that the MSM plays up personalities and deliberately neglects to highlight party branding. This obvious works against the oppositions' interest.

To build a good party brand you need savvy people in the party ranks to run a tight ship. If, as you say, WP is losing people like water, the hull will eventually burst through because there will be no smart folks left to steer the rudder.

Yes, I have just checked with Tony yesterday when we both joined TOC in their visit to another group of Homeless Happy Campers.

He was in the policy group, the think tank of WP but quit. Didn't talk about specifically why he quits but seems that WP is losing people like water.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

Don't worry, was taking the piss out of you. Still got a lot of respect for your political acumen and overall common sense. Could you try and save WP.

LOL! Yes, I was just kidding and making a punt on Americans taking the 5th Ammendment, particularly the right not to be witness against onself.

 

[scroobal]

Good observation.

We used to say PKMS exports Malay candidates to opp camps that enable them to contest GRCs, now i've learnt that WP exports elites and scholars to others opp camps and claim that it's a good thing for diversity causes.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I am not surprised at all that Tony joined and left WP within a few months. There are a couple of people before him that experienced the same thing; but they did not join any other party thereafter.At the very least, Tony is not disheartened and continue his political path by joining RP.

But as I have said, WP is big enough to withstand such high turnover of people. They have a pretty much larger pool of people to choose from. I believe there may be some good new ones around and they will be introduced to the public in time to come.

If you read about WP Youth Wing forum, you will understand that their focus is not on the net. They have this consensus among themselves that the internet is not very important and it is just a tool. Internet cannot get people to do ground work. It has smaller outreach etc etc.

Selling Hammers and knocking doors are still their main political focus. Right or wrong, only time can tell.


Goh Meng Seng

I was surprised to find out today that Tony has joined and left WP within a few months. A person of that background must have strong reasons to do that. There are too many signals as well. Contrary to Perspective portraying WP as germination lab for budding politicians, I am of the opinion that it going back to the old days of one man, one show - pretty much the local landscape. Their reticence is going to bite them in the arse.

I spent time on RP website and they have done a dazzling job. I just hope that WP repeat the 2006 surprise of having some pretty good chaps and covering most of the bases.

WP seriously need an image consultant - for its web, its party uniform and a lot more buzz.

 

[Perspective]

Contrary to Perspective portraying WP as germination lab for budding politicians, I am of the opinion that it going back to the old days of one man, one show - pretty much the local landscape. .

I think it can be both and the 2 things you stated are not mutually exclusive. Whether it is a one man show or not it has been around much longer hence the impression sticks deeper including those with the first ray streaks of political inclinations. You "destroy" the shared door to different "lounges" and you won't even get people in the "lounge" you particularly own.

Their reticence may or may not bite them but by now you know my world view is bigger than just WP. FYI, I am much converted from the school of two-party to the school of multi-parties. This is because I think the former merely leads to hegemonic replacement one after another. Only through diversity and coalitions will consultativeness come of age, or consultativeness would merely be non-obligatory.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

Hi Hawkeye,

I was talking to somebody lately about this concept of branding. If we study GE 2006 results carefully, I would say that WP has only a slight advantage in party branding.. of maybe 3 to 5%. Taking out the outliers, mainly the top scorers like Potong Pasir, Hougang, Aljunied and Choa Chu Kang, if you compare the average percentage of votes between the rest of WP and SDA contest, you would find that the difference is about 3% to 5%. For WP, the variance is larger, from 31.3% in Nee Soon East to 36.1% in East Coast. SDA has a more consistent vote percentage from 30.7% to 31.7% in Yio Chu Kang.

What does it mean? Party branding only plays a minor part while individual candidates' profile is more important to the voters. SDA team is consistent because their candidates are equally low profile (other than Steve Chia and Uncle Chiam). In the case of WP, Chia Tilik's East Coast team is relatively stronger, followed by Lian Chin Way. Take the strongest of WP compare to SDA's weakest, the difference is about 5%. That's how much party branding difference between SDA and WP.

Even for the top profile team/SMC, Aljunied and Chao Chu Kang is also about 5% in difference.

Thus my conclusion is that beside party branding, individual candidates play a big part in winning votes. Whether we like it or not, publicity of candidates and their profiles do make a significant difference.. about 8% to 9%.

We have to live with such mindset of voters.

Goh Meng Seng

Looks like there are more choices now for aspiring candidates in terms of which party to join, so the party that can project a more progressive image will over time get ahead of the pack.

The problem in Singapore is that the MSM plays up personalities and deliberately neglects to highlight party branding. This obvious works against the oppositions' interest.

To build a good party brand you need savvy people in the party ranks to run a tight ship. If, as you say, WP is losing people like water, the hull will eventually burst through because there will be no smart folks left to steer the rudder.

 

[scroobal]

Thanks for sharing. Hopefully that will be the case. We had a similar discussion with Melvin, Locke and you circa 2004/5 and the WP focusing too much on the work brigade and the bread and butter issue rather than Politics.

I am not surprised at all that Tony joined and left WP within a few months. There are a couple of people before him that experienced the same thing; but they did not join any other party thereafter.At the very least, Tony is not disheartened and continue his political path by joining RP.

But as I have said, WP is big enough to withstand such high turnover of people. They have a pretty much larger pool of people to choose from. I believe there may be some good new ones around and they will be introduced to the public in time to come.

If you read about WP Youth Wing forum, you will understand that their focus is not on the net. They have this consensus among themselves that the internet is not very important and it is just a tool. Internet cannot get people to do ground work. It has smaller outreach etc etc.

Selling Hammers and knocking doors are still their main political focus. Right or wrong, only time can tell.


Goh Meng Seng

 

[Ramseth]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

Don't worry, was taking the piss out of you. Still got a lot of respect for your political acumen and overall common sense. Could you try and save WP.

It's neither within my purview nor power. Hopefully, it needs no saving.

 

[theDoors]

Re: Reform Party: Ex SAF scholar joins Reform Party

I think the prime target is Kenneth.

Let's see if his brother will sit on the fence.

Temasek review trying to trigger some family feud to weaken Reform?

Gopalan Nair lashes out at Philip Jeyaretnam for “betraying” his father
http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/0...t-philip-jeyaretnam-for-betraying-his-father/

 

[Perspective]

For a blog that tries to position itself as a news blog and writes in a journalistic format the actual fruit (news) is certainly old. 2 months backward.

Might as well report that the PAP will be introducing GRCs in the next elections.

 

[Hawkeye1819]

If as you say WP still has considerable manpower resources surely they can find the time to do both -- grassroots/leg work as well as internet work.

Would be foolish to ignore the internet given the rapid growth. Perception of smaller outreach is just myopic if what you say is true. I suspect (and you probably know better) that it is due to lethargy and over-caution.

If you read about WP Youth Wing forum, you will understand that their focus is not on the net. They have this consensus among themselves that the internet is not very important and it is just a tool. Internet cannot get people to do ground work. It has smaller outreach etc etc.

Selling Hammers and knocking doors are still their main political focus. Right or wrong, only time can tell.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

If as you say WP still has considerable manpower resources surely they can find the time to do both -- grassroots/leg work as well as internet work.

Would be foolish to ignore the internet given the rapid growth. Perception of smaller outreach is just myopic if what you say is true. I suspect (and you probably know better) that it is due to lethargy and over-caution.

I have raised points on such strategy.

If IPS election study done in 2006 (right after GE) is reliable, knocking doors is not as effective and efficient as it seems. Most of the people interviewed cited influences or talking to family members and friends are more important in deciding who to vote during elections. Less people are influenced by people coming knocking their doors.

The most important thing is selling the political messages to people and let them talk to others and influence their friends and people around them. It is the political education of talking politics that matters.

Internet has provided the most efficient and cheap platform for everyone to utilize. The so call "outreach" may not be as big as the MSM but it may just influence enough voters to go back to talk to other people around them. The influence of such network sales of political messages cannot be underestimated.

Obviously, WP is more cautious to have its members roaming the internet. May be they are right in doing so, after having seen YPAP members making PR blunders now and then. But as politicians, it is the necessary learning path for them to adapt and learn the ropes of managing PR or any mass media form. Making mistakes and errors (e.g. me and YSL) are inevitable in the learning process. The important thing is you could learn quite substantially from the whole process.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[IR123]

Right or wrong, only time can tell.

They have not been listening to Father Time.

 

[IR123]

FYI, I am much converted from the school of two-party to the school of multi-parties. This is because I think the former merely leads to hegemonic replacement one after another. Only through diversity and coalitions will consultativeness come of age, or consultativeness would merely be non-obligatory.

I read your sentence as one talking about the endpoint of singapore politics - whether a two-party system or a multi-party system is better for singapore.


My own perspective concentrates on the starting point of singapore politics. Today some had made a case that there is a two-party system in Singapore - the PAP and WP. Others with equal justification will say that there is a multi-party system in Singapore, counting in SDA, NSP and Gopalan.

The point is whichever way you look at them, the bottom-line is that they are ineffective. On the one hand they will say the PAP is unfair. On the other hand, they are not prepared to engage in new techniques, allow new leadership to emerge that can make the PAP tremble.

Many of the things they said are not without justification.

What is without justification is the repetition of the same old techniques that led them nowhere in the past.

Thus the starting point of singapore's politics should be the emergence of a new generation of leaders. The hope therefore lies in the single seat wards whereby independents can emerge without the need of affilating to any party.

Salvation lies not in the established parties. It lies in the emergence of new talent.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Well said.

I read your sentence as one talking about the endpoint of singapore politics - whether a two-party system or a multi-party system is better for singapore.


My own perspective concentrates on the starting point of singapore politics. Today some had made a case that there is a two-party system in Singapore - the PAP and WP. Others with equal justification will say that there is a multi-party system in Singapore, counting in SDA, NSP and Gopalan.

The point is whichever way you look at them, the bottom-line is that they are ineffective. On the one hand they will say the PAP is unfair. On the other hand, they are not prepared to engage in new techniques, allow new leadership to emerge that can make the PAP tremble.

Many of the things they said are not without justification.

What is without justification is the repetition of the same old techniques that led them nowhere in the past.

Thus the starting point of singapore's politics should be the emergence of a new generation of leaders. The hope therefore lies in the single seat wards whereby independents can emerge without the need of affilating to any party.

Salvation lies not in the established parties. It lies in the emergence of new talent.

 

[Perspective]

I read your sentence as one talking about the endpoint of singapore politics - whether a two-party system or a multi-party system is better for singapore.

There is no end point in politics. Or it's as good as an end point of the world.

That being said, Singapore is far from being 2 or multi party. WP can hardly constitute the 2nd party when it is closer in status quo to any of its peer opposition than to PAP. NSP which does not have a seat and even less so Gopalan Nair who is not even a citizen can hardly be deemed as part of a plethora of parties in Parliament.

When I was talking about 2 or multiparty, I was talking about 2 or multiparty in Parliament, not 2 or multiparty in Singapore. You're entitled to delude yourself but neither is clearly the case.

 

[IR123]

There is no end point in politics. Or it's as good as an end point of the world.

That being said, Singapore is far from being 2 or multi party. WP can hardly constitute the 2nd party when it is closer in status quo to any of its peer opposition than to PAP. NSP which does not have a seat and even less so Gopalan Nair who is not even a citizen can hardly be deemed as part of a plethora of parties in Parliament.

When I was talking about 2 or multiparty, I was talking about 2 or multiparty in Parliament, not 2 or multiparty in Singapore. You're entitled to delude yourself but neither is clearly the case.

Which is what i am saying: your endpoint is the number of parties in Parliament. You misinterpreted.

You are probably talking in a theoretical sense.

I am offering another point of view: that there is no value in talking theory when the opposition is hardly able to even make headway on the third seat.

In a very real sense, there is no opposition in Singapore today that can exist on its own merit and not by the grace of PAP.