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Racist Europeans sore loser in Electric Vehicle competition!

superpower

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Hydrogen refueling stations too will not be built in sparsely inhabited region.
Battery technology is being upgraded as we speak and sodium ion batteries have no problems with very low temperatures.

Japanese car companies claim to have mastered the heavy battery issued with solid state batteries suppose to store twice the energy of current lithium ion ones. But let's see when it rolls out.
End of day, batteries can only be an interim solution: it is still dependent on fossil fuels, disposal and recycling are big problems.

The hydrogen fuel cell addresses carbon neutrality targets. Recycling has its problems and costs but the technology is improving.
 

duluxe

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Already overtook Japan as world's largest car exporter.

China surpasses Japan as world's top auto exporter


By total cars manufactured, i agree with you they overtook japan. But by the real human driving the car, the statistics is flawed.

China EV manufacturers are over producing above market demand. The EV companies just registered the excess cars and send them to EV graveyards to rot, the objective is to add to the global sale quota. Our bro @nightsafari and @congo9 are correct in saying china under CCP does not produce real value. It another great leap forwards to hit quota that serves not real value just like the fake 'steel' quota giving by MAO during the first great leap forward.


grave.webp
 

duluxe

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See China’s Abandoned EV Graveyard: Thousands Of Cars Rot In Huge Fields​


https://insideevs.com/news/672926/china-abandoned-electric-car-graveyard-byd-geely/

China has emerged as the global powerhouse in electric vehicle manufacturing and sales. But there might be a dark side to its rise. A recent video showcases enormous fields filled with thousands of abandoned Chinese electric cars.

Some of these EVs appear to be the Geely Kandi K10 EV, Neta V and BYD e3 models. These cars are seen parked in one of the districts of Hangzhou, the capital of the Zhejiang Province in eastern China.

The scene appears eerie as the white paint is tainted by layers of dust and tires partly covered by encroaching grass. Inside, they appear spanking new, as the plastic seat wraps are untouched and the screens still shining.

They all have registration plates. YouTuber Winston Sterzel, who reshared the drone footage, alleges that Chinese EV makers register the cars and claim to have sold them to show numbers and obtain subsidies from the government.

One caption, translated to English, reads “BYD inventory flooded, 600 cars waiting to be processed.” In a related video, a registration form reveals the size of the plot where the surplus inventory is left to rust in Hangzhou. The field is over 15,000 square meters in size, and the nature of the property is “commercial business.”
 

Hightech88

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If you can beat 'em, join 'em.

* * *

Mercedes-Benz to launch BYD-powered EVs to keep pace with Tesla, Chinese automakers

Avatar for Peter Johnson Peter Johnson | Sep 8 2023 - 7:27 am PT

Mercedes-CLA-concept

According to a new report, Mercedes-Benz plans to launch new EVs powered by BYD’s LFP Blade battery. The move comes after the German luxury automaker revealed its new CLA electric sedan concept, the first of its entry-level class designed to take on EV leaders like Tesla.

Chinese newspaper CBEA reported that Mercedes-Benz will begin production of the new EVs fitted with BYD’s blade battery in 2025 (via Car News China).

Mercedes-Benz officials claim the newly revealed CLA electric sedan concept will have cruising range of 466 miles (750 km) featuring LFP batteries from BYD.

The move would make sense as Mercedes-Benz (Daimler) and BYD have a history of cooperating. In 2010, the two companies established an R&D joint venture to develop and produce new energy vehicles (NEV). Under the Denza sub-brand, the JV launched a new NEV in China.

Rumors have been swirling as early as 2020 that Mercedes would partner with BYD to use its blade batteries.

Like many luxury automakers, Mercedes uses ternary (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) batteries for its current EV lineup.

Mercedes-Benz-BYD-EVs
Mercedes-Benz electric CLA concept (Source: Mercedes-Benz)
However, LFP batteries are gaining popularity due to the cheaper costs. LFP batteries require less precious metals like Cobalt, enabling them to be produced for cheaper.

Mercedes-Benz CEO Ola Kallenius explained at the IAA Mobility show in Munich how the company will deal with costs, including battery raw materials, to enhance profit margins.

Mercedes-CLA-concept


Mercedes CLA electric sedan concept to rival Tesla​

The new CLA concept will be the first Mercedes EV to use its next-gen 800V MMA platform. Mercedes is nicknaming it the “one-liter car” in reference to its energy consumption of around 5.2 mi/kWh (12 kWh/ 100km).

The newly developed EV will kick off an entirely new class of entry-level Mercedes EVs starting in 2025 to compete with Tesla and automakers in China.

Mercedes-CLA-concept
Mercedes-Benz electric CLA concept (Source: Mercedes-Benz)
One of the biggest reasons for the lower price point – LFP batteries. Many automakers are moving to LFP to lower costs.

Tesla confirmed that nearly half of its vehicles produced in the first quarter of the year were LFP. CEO Elon Musk has mentioned several times that the EV maker plans to shift more vehicles to LFP to overcome raw material supply constraints.

Mercedes-benz-byd-evs
Mercedes-Benz CLA concept interior (Source: Mercedes-Benz)
The EV leaders uses BYD blade batteries in some Model 3 versions and the new Model Y built at Gigafactory Berlin.

https://electrek.co/2023/09/08/mercedes-benz-launch-byd-powered-evs-keep-up-tesla/

Good luck to Mercedes...:


" BYD's Blade Battery equipped HAN EVs are catching fire.. But that's only the beginning..."
 

superpower

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By total cars manufactured, i agree with you they overtook japan. But by the real human driving the car, the statistics is flawed.

China EV manufacturers are over producing above market demand. The EV companies just registered the excess cars and send them to EV graveyards to rot, the objective is to add to the global sale quota. Our bro @nightsafari and @congo9 are correct in saying china under CCP does not produce real value. It another great leap forwards to hit quota that serves not real value just like the fake 'steel' quota giving by MAO during the first great leap forward.
We're talking about exports, not domestic sales, which have stagnated. The export figures include cars manufactured by foreign companies in China, e.g. Tesla, Hyundai, Nissan, Ford.

In fact, China car sales peaked in 2017, resulting in massive overproduction and overcapacity since, both for ICE and EV. A lot of the excess EVs are rotting in graveyards, but they're not exported, so are not part of export figures.

The rest are exported mainly to developing markets in Europe and Asia, but increasingly companies like BYD are targeting developed markets, which are 5 years behind in EV technology. They have already surpassed Japan as the world's #1 exporter (surprising more ICE than EV) as of Q2, and experts expect them to maintain the lead for years.

* * *

China set to overtake Japan as world’s biggest car exporter

Foreign shipments boost industry as domestic carmakers struggle to sell at home

Edward White and Song Jung-a in Seoul, Leo Lewis in Tokyo and Andy Lin in Hong Kong

SEPTEMBER 12 2023
https://www.ft.com/content/cdcb0d7e-3ec2-42bc-bfcc-9489290aa9ae

China is set to become the world’s biggest car exporter this year, overtaking Japan. The watershed moment will mark the end of decades of dominance by European, American, Japanese and South Korean groups.

Yet driving China’s global ascendancy are deep structural problems in the domestic auto industry, which threaten to upend car markets across the world.

A stark mismatch between production at Chinese factories and local demand has been caused, in part, by industry executives mis-forecasting three key trends: the rapid decline of internal combustion engine car sales, the explosion in popularity of electric vehicles and the declining need for privately owned vehicles as shared mobility booms among an increasingly urbanised Chinese population.

The result has been “massive overcapacity” in the number of vehicles produced in factories across the country, said Bill Russo, former head of Chrysler in China and founder of advisory firm Automobility. “We have an overhang of 25mn units not being used,” he said.

Years of supportive industrial policy and private sector investment have boosted China’s competitiveness in the industry. Domestic manufacturers, including EV champion BYD, are now outselling foreign automakers and targeting overseas markets for growth.

China’s annual vehicle exports, which surpassed those of South Korea in 2021 and Germany in 2022, are now on track to beat Japan’s this year, according to Moody’s data.

However, sales volumes in China peaked in 2017, data from Automobility shows, in line with slowing growth in the country’s middle-class boom and wider economic weakness.

Screenshot 2023-09-25 at 9.03.26 AM.png

A chart showing monthly car exports, 12-month moving average, for China, Japan, Germany
and South Korea, highlighting that China poised to export more cars than Japan in 2023.

The overcapacity problem is hitting both local companies such as Chery, SAIC, BYD, Geely and Changan, and an increasing number of foreign groups. Companies including Tesla, Ford, Nissan and Hyundai are among those repositioning their Chinese factories towards export markets, analysts said.

As of the end of July, 2.8mn vehicles had been exported from China this year, including 1.8mn petrol-powered vehicles — up 74 per cent on the previous year — as more domestic consumers opt for EVs and second-hand cars.

Despite overcapacity and slowing sales growth, the expected wave of consolidation in China’s auto industry has not yet materialised, according to one senior western auto executive. This was partly because financial support from Chinese local governments and banks had helped keep unprofitable companies afloat, he said.

“You have some 100 manufacturers who put 80 to 100 models on the market every year . . . we have been expecting that consolidation to have taken place already, and it didn’t,” the executive said.

Screenshot 2023-09-25 at 9.10.18 AM.png


South Korea’s Hyundai is emblematic of the pain felt by legacy auto groups in China. Of the group’s four factories there, two are being used for exports and the other two are up for sale.

“But the thing is, where can it sell its cars made in China? It already has plants in India, Vietnam, Indonesia and Brazil,” said Lee Hang-koo, executive adviser at the Korea Automotive Technology Institute.

“Because of the low utilisation rates in China, its losses there have ballooned in recent years and it won’t be easy to make money out of exports as most of the cars produced there are gasoline cars,” he added.

Hyundai declined to give more details on its strategy in China.

Analysts expect China to hold its top position for years. According to forecasts by consultancy AlixPartners, overseas sales of cars produced by Chinese companies will hit 9mn by the end of the decade, pushing their global market share to 30 per cent in 2030, up from 16 per cent in 2022.

Chinese auto exports have mostly targeted developing markets in Europe and Asia, Automobility data shows, with sanctions-hit Russia the top destination this year. Geely’s Coolray crossover is one of the most popular models exported to Russia and sells for about Rbs1.4mn ($14,000).

The export wave is expected to intensify as Chinese EVs, which are significantly less expensive than rivals, gain a foothold, especially in Europe, said Yuqian Ding, a Beijing-based analyst with HSBC.

Tesla already exports electric cars from its Shanghai facility to Europe and about one-fifth of all EVs sold in Europe are manufactured in China.

Screenshot 2023-09-25 at 9.09.48 AM.png


BYD is spearheading China’s EV exports into developed markets. Following a recent briefing with BYD founder and chair Wang Chuanfu, Citi analysts said the company was “confident” of an export sales target of 400,000 units next year, double this year’s forecast.

The Warren Buffett-backed Tesla rival, which is also one of the world’s biggest battery makers, told the bank’s analysts that the Chinese EV industry was three to five years ahead of foreign legacy automakers in terms of technology and scale, and as much as 10 years ahead in terms of cost advantage.

Still, analysts have warned that companies exporting from China must navigate worsening geopolitical tensions and limited brand recognition as well as rising protectionism and consumer nationalism.

“How long will the rest of the world tolerate massive imports from China, and will Chinese companies come under pressure to relocate production overseas?” asked Christopher Richter, autos analyst at CLSA.

Additional reporting by Gloria Li in Hong Kong and Peter Campbell in Munich
 

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Hypocrite-The

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Hydrogen will not be able to compete with EV's in cost and simplicity. Forget it. You 9nly need chargers for EV's connected to grid which is available everywhere.
Hydrogen, you need to build up its infrastructure from ground up.
Tat why I don't understand the obsession with hydrogen. Since EVs are on the roll, improving on its tech is just evolutionary n improving infrastructure... hydrogen is unproven n had issues and it's basically reinventing the wheel which makes no economic sense
 

Hypocrite-The

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We're talking about exports, not domestic sales, which have stagnated. The export figures include cars manufactured by foreign companies in China, e.g. Tesla, Hyundai, Nissan, Ford.

In fact, China car sales peaked in 2017, resulting in massive overproduction and overcapacity since, both for ICE and EV. A lot of the excess EVs are rotting in graveyards, but they're not exported, so are not part of export figures.

The rest are exported mainly to developing markets in Europe and Asia, but increasingly companies like BYD are targeting developed markets, which are 5 years behind in EV technology. They have already surpassed Japan as the world's #1 exporter (surprising more ICE than EV) as of Q2, and experts expect them to maintain the lead for years.

* * *

China set to overtake Japan as world’s biggest car exporter

Foreign shipments boost industry as domestic carmakers struggle to sell at home

Edward White and Song Jung-a in Seoul, Leo Lewis in Tokyo and Andy Lin in Hong Kong

SEPTEMBER 12 2023
https://www.ft.com/content/cdcb0d7e-3ec2-42bc-bfcc-9489290aa9ae

China is set to become the world’s biggest car exporter this year, overtaking Japan. The watershed moment will mark the end of decades of dominance by European, American, Japanese and South Korean groups.

Yet driving China’s global ascendancy are deep structural problems in the domestic auto industry, which threaten to upend car markets across the world.

A stark mismatch between production at Chinese factories and local demand has been caused, in part, by industry executives mis-forecasting three key trends: the rapid decline of internal combustion engine car sales, the explosion in popularity of electric vehicles and the declining need for privately owned vehicles as shared mobility booms among an increasingly urbanised Chinese population.

The result has been “massive overcapacity” in the number of vehicles produced in factories across the country, said Bill Russo, former head of Chrysler in China and founder of advisory firm Automobility. “We have an overhang of 25mn units not being used,” he said.

Years of supportive industrial policy and private sector investment have boosted China’s competitiveness in the industry. Domestic manufacturers, including EV champion BYD, are now outselling foreign automakers and targeting overseas markets for growth.

China’s annual vehicle exports, which surpassed those of South Korea in 2021 and Germany in 2022, are now on track to beat Japan’s this year, according to Moody’s data.

However, sales volumes in China peaked in 2017, data from Automobility shows, in line with slowing growth in the country’s middle-class boom and wider economic weakness.

View attachment 189242
A chart showing monthly car exports, 12-month moving average, for China, Japan, Germany
and South Korea, highlighting that China poised to export more cars than Japan in 2023.

The overcapacity problem is hitting both local companies such as Chery, SAIC, BYD, Geely and Changan, and an increasing number of foreign groups. Companies including Tesla, Ford, Nissan and Hyundai are among those repositioning their Chinese factories towards export markets, analysts said.

As of the end of July, 2.8mn vehicles had been exported from China this year, including 1.8mn petrol-powered vehicles — up 74 per cent on the previous year — as more domestic consumers opt for EVs and second-hand cars.

Despite overcapacity and slowing sales growth, the expected wave of consolidation in China’s auto industry has not yet materialised, according to one senior western auto executive. This was partly because financial support from Chinese local governments and banks had helped keep unprofitable companies afloat, he said.

“You have some 100 manufacturers who put 80 to 100 models on the market every year . . . we have been expecting that consolidation to have taken place already, and it didn’t,” the executive said.

View attachment 189245

South Korea’s Hyundai is emblematic of the pain felt by legacy auto groups in China. Of the group’s four factories there, two are being used for exports and the other two are up for sale.

“But the thing is, where can it sell its cars made in China? It already has plants in India, Vietnam, Indonesia and Brazil,” said Lee Hang-koo, executive adviser at the Korea Automotive Technology Institute.

“Because of the low utilisation rates in China, its losses there have ballooned in recent years and it won’t be easy to make money out of exports as most of the cars produced there are gasoline cars,” he added.

Hyundai declined to give more details on its strategy in China.

Analysts expect China to hold its top position for years. According to forecasts by consultancy AlixPartners, overseas sales of cars produced by Chinese companies will hit 9mn by the end of the decade, pushing their global market share to 30 per cent in 2030, up from 16 per cent in 2022.

Chinese auto exports have mostly targeted developing markets in Europe and Asia, Automobility data shows, with sanctions-hit Russia the top destination this year. Geely’s Coolray crossover is one of the most popular models exported to Russia and sells for about Rbs1.4mn ($14,000).

The export wave is expected to intensify as Chinese EVs, which are significantly less expensive than rivals, gain a foothold, especially in Europe, said Yuqian Ding, a Beijing-based analyst with HSBC.

Tesla already exports electric cars from its Shanghai facility to Europe and about one-fifth of all EVs sold in Europe are manufactured in China.

View attachment 189244

BYD is spearheading China’s EV exports into developed markets. Following a recent briefing with BYD founder and chair Wang Chuanfu, Citi analysts said the company was “confident” of an export sales target of 400,000 units next year, double this year’s forecast.

The Warren Buffett-backed Tesla rival, which is also one of the world’s biggest battery makers, told the bank’s analysts that the Chinese EV industry was three to five years ahead of foreign legacy automakers in terms of technology and scale, and as much as 10 years ahead in terms of cost advantage.

Still, analysts have warned that companies exporting from China must navigate worsening geopolitical tensions and limited brand recognition as well as rising protectionism and consumer nationalism.

“How long will the rest of the world tolerate massive imports from China, and will Chinese companies come under pressure to relocate production overseas?” asked Christopher Richter, autos analyst at CLSA.

Additional reporting by Gloria Li in Hong Kong and Peter Campbell in Munich
Chicon lands can easily export more EVs or batteries etc as the west is lagging behind in these fields and major car manufacturers are already using BYD batteries..so no issues in chicon land
 

superpower

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Tat why I don't understand the obsession with hydrogen. Since EVs are on the roll, improving on its tech is just evolutionary n improving infrastructure... hydrogen is unproven n had issues and it's basically reinventing the wheel which makes no economic sense
Carbon neutrality. EV is still dependent on fossil fuels, if attached to a grid, hence CO2 emissions.

China aims to achieve carbon neutrality by 2060, the EU by 2050. So the race is on in EU, Japan and China for the next generation of cars - and the hydrogen fuel cell is the most promising. There are definitely cost hurdles to overcome, so government subsidies are probably inevitable.
 

Hypocrite-The

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Carbon neutrality. EV is still dependent on fossil fuels, if attached to a grid, hence CO2 emissions.

China aims to achieve carbon neutrality by 2060, the EU by 2050. So the race is on in EU, Japan and China for the next generation of cars - and the hydrogen fuel cell is the most promising. There are definitely cost hurdles to overcome, so government subsidies are probably inevitable.
There is no such thing as carbon neutrality as there are humans and all life on earth is carbon based...so eliminate all life on earth...than will be carbon neutral
 

Hypocrite-The

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Carbon neutrality. EV is still dependent on fossil fuels, if attached to a grid, hence CO2 emissions.

China aims to achieve carbon neutrality by 2060, the EU by 2050. So the race is on in EU, Japan and China for the next generation of cars - and the hydrogen fuel cell is the most promising. There are definitely cost hurdles to overcome, so government subsidies are probably inevitable.
Hydrogen in future might be for power generation etc..than EV cars are charged via such generators than it makes sense...anyway a hydrogen vehicle is total BS
 

ChinaCommunistSG

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It's a security threat, if you understand what kind of a country China is you would know this. Deluded Tiong fanboys still believe it's all about angmohs persecuting their beloved 祖国. So low IQ indeed. :biggrin:

dicksonyeo_facebook.jpg
Dickson Yeo is working for George Yeo now as as speech writer cum personal assistant
 

superpower

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There is no such thing as carbon neutrality as there are humans and all life on earth is carbon based...so eliminate all life on earth...than will be carbon neutral
Theoretically if you balance the carbon emissions by humans and animals with CO2 absorption by plants and carbon sequestration technology, you achieve carbon neutrality.

Tall order, though. But we can start with vehicles.
 

Hypocrite-The

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Theoretically if you balance the carbon emissions by humans and animals with CO2 absorption by plants and carbon sequestration technology, you achieve carbon neutrality.

Tall order, though. But we can start with vehicles.
Why start at all with vehicles when it's placing the economic prosperity of major economies...and better batteries are coming in like the sodium and Graphene... hydrogen for cars is totally uneconomical..

And this is the real climate issue..
 

duluxe

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In fact, China car sales peaked in 2017, resulting in massive overproduction and overcapacity since, both for ICE and EV. A lot of the excess EVs are rotting in graveyards, but they're not exported, so are not part of export figures.

1. why are these abandoned EVs registered with number plates?
2. leaving to rot, the batteries not contributing to environmental hazards?
 

superpower

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1. why are these abandoned EVs registered with number plates?
Bought and registered by ride-hailing companies which later failed, resulting in mass dumping.

Those vehicles were mostly bought by ride-hailing companies that leased them to drivers. “At the beginning of China’s EV market, delivery numbers were driven by car-sharing fleets,” said Young Huang, a senior analyst with JSC Automotive, a consultancy with offices in Shanghai and Stuttgart. “Only a few private customers chose to buy them.”

But that lightning-fast development also left behind plenty of casualties. Many of the ride-hailing companies that were early adopters of EVs have gone out of business. There are now around 100 Chinese electric-car makers, down from roughly 500 in 2019.


2. leaving to rot, the batteries not contributing to environmental hazards?
That's the point. EV is seen as 'clean', but how do you dispose of the batteries? Landfills are almost full, recycling is incomplete and not cost-efficient.

That's EV is just an interim solution. The world needs to transition on to genuinely clean automotive technology.
 

duluxe

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Bought and registered by ride-hailing companies which later failed, resulting in mass dumping.

Those vehicles were mostly bought by ride-hailing companies that leased them to drivers. “At the beginning of China’s EV market, delivery numbers were driven by car-sharing fleets,” said Young Huang, a senior analyst with JSC Automotive, a consultancy with offices in Shanghai and Stuttgart. “Only a few private customers chose to buy them.”

But that lightning-fast development also left behind plenty of casualties. Many of the ride-hailing companies that were early adopters of EVs have gone out of business. There are now around 100 Chinese electric-car makers, down from roughly 500 in 2019.
Please re-read the blog post i posted.

Inside, they appear spanking new, as the plastic seat wraps are untouched and the screens still shining....Chinese EV makers register the cars and claim to have sold them to show numbers and obtain subsidies from the government.
 

superpower

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Please re-read the blog post i posted.

Inside, they appear spanking new, as the plastic seat wraps are untouched and the screens still shining....Chinese EV makers register the cars and claim to have sold them to show numbers and obtain subsidies from the government.
I'm sure there were companies who abused the system to obtain subsidies, since the subsidies were very generous. Why do you think there was a 'massive overcapacity'?

But they all landed in the graveyard... and are not included in export figures.

We are talking about all cars that were exported, ICE & EV, local & foreign makes.

Good article by Bloomberg:

China’s Abandoned, Obsolete Electric Cars Are Piling Up in Cities

A subsidy-fueled boom helped build China into an electric-car giant but left weed-infested lots across the nation brimming with unwanted battery-powered vehicles.
By Bloomberg News
17 August 2023 at 7:00 PM SGT

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/
 
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