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Puteri Harbour Community

IskandarRocks

Alfrescian
Loyal
I visited Puteri Harbour a few weeks back. I saw vast plots of land, mostly visitors and hardly any residents. I'm not sure how the business and maintenance of the entire area can be sustained in the next few years. Investors really need to have good holding power and wait for more people and companies to shift in.

No completed condos yet, where will the residents live? We will see some temporary residents once Traders is completed. :smile:

But I agree with you. This is a longer term play. Holding power is essential. Risks are high. But rewards may be handsome.

Every investment has a risk component. We like to think that Singapore is a safe bet. Someone I know last year bought a condo at from the developer at d'leedon at around SGD 1350 psf. The developer started giving 15% discount after the cooling measures. Down went his investment immediately by 15%. He is majorly upset but cannot do anything.

No one can predict the future. We all can look at the master plan, credibility and financial strength of the master developer, and take calculated risks.
 
Last edited:

avelc

Alfrescian
Loyal
No completed condos yet, where will the residents live? We will see some temporary residents once Traders is completed. :smile:

But I agree with you. This is a longer term play. Holding power is essential. Risks are high. But rewards may be handsome.

Every investment has a risk component. We like to think that Singapore is a safe bet. Someone I know last year bought a condo at from the developer at d'leedon at around SGD 1350 psf. The developer started giving 15% discount after the cooling measures. Down went his investment immediately by 15%. He is majorly upset but cannot do anything.

No one can predict the future. We all can look at the master plan, credibility and financial strength of the master developer, and take calculated risks.

A slightly different view: the cynical part of me feels that SG is one of the riskiest places for property investment, as prices are extremely high. Yes I know high can get even higher, but there is a ceiling limit for prices.

About Puteri Harbour, yes the price premium is definitely there and holding power is a must.

Perhaps it is time for us to diversify to KL properties? In the bigger scheme of things, Msia property prices are still quite low compared to other Asian cities, so buying in the capital city should be worth to consider for those wanting to diversify out.
 
Last edited:

Dfiris

Alfrescian
Loyal
I attended Gavin Tee's seminar over the weekend.

A few points to share with brothers of this community since we are all or mostly vested in PH:

2013-2015 : Hot years for Iskandar (his meaning of Iskandar is Nusajaya,
especially Puteri Harbour)

2015-2016 : Correction for Iskandar, people whom bought in 2013-2015 might not make profit or even small loss (those whom will make are the earlier investors)

2016-2018: KL's turn to be hot, with Tun Razak, High Speed Rail & 118 storey tower

if u belong to 10% of the crowd whom are genuine property investors, they would be sniffing out KL now at this point (and investing in a bigger way after elections), and the 70% of the crowd whom follows the herd would be buying into Iskandar.

A slightly different view: the cynical part of me feels that SG is one of the riskiest places for property investment, as prices are extremely high. Yes I know high can get even higher, but there is a ceiling limit for prices.

About Puteri Harbour, yes the price premium is definitely there and holding power is a must.

Perhaps it is time for us to diversify to KL properties? In the bigger scheme of things, Msia property prices are still quite low compared to other Asian cities, so buying in the capital city should be worth to consider for those wanting to diversify out.
 

avelc

Alfrescian
Loyal
I attended Gavin Tee's seminar over the weekend.

A few points to share with brothers of this community since we are all or mostly vested in PH:

2013-2015 : Hot years for Iskandar (his meaning of Iskandar is Nusajaya,
especially Puteri Harbour)

2015-2016 : Correction for Iskandar, people whom bought in 2013-2015 might not make profit or even small loss (those whom will make are the earlier investors)

2016-2018: KL's turn to be hot, with Tun Razak, High Speed Rail & 118 storey tower

if u belong to 10% of the crowd whom are genuine property investors, they would be sniffing out KL now at this point (and investing in a bigger way after elections), and the 70% of the crowd whom follows the herd would be buying into Iskandar.

Thanks for sharing sir. Hope to learn more from you. Definitely keen on KL, will hunt around. Landed G&G could be beyond my budget, so will also consider subsale or almost VP condos.
 

allanckk

Alfrescian
Loyal
I attended Gavin Tee's seminar over the weekend.

A few points to share with brothers of this community since we are all or mostly vested in PH:

2013-2015 : Hot years for Iskandar (his meaning of Iskandar is Nusajaya,
especially Puteri Harbour)

2015-2016 : Correction for Iskandar, people whom bought in 2013-2015 might not make profit or even small loss (those whom will make are the earlier investors)

2016-2018: KL's turn to be hot, with Tun Razak, High Speed Rail & 118 storey tower

if u belong to 10% of the crowd whom are genuine property investors, they would be sniffing out KL now at this point (and investing in a bigger way after elections), and the 70% of the crowd whom follows the herd would be buying into Iskandar.

hi Bro,

not sure what your mean since you say... 2013-2015 : Hot years for Iskandar (his meaning of Iskandar is Nusajaya,
especially Puteri Harbour) then why people whom bought in 2013-2015 might not make profit or even small loss this doesn't seem to be tally to your statement if the region is hot should have more investor come in and the price will boom accordingly to??
 

Investor

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I attended Gavin Tee's seminar over the weekend.

A few points to share with brothers of this community since we are all or mostly vested in PH:

2013-2015 : Hot years for Iskandar (his meaning of Iskandar is Nusajaya,
especially Puteri Harbour)

2015-2016 : Correction for Iskandar, people whom bought in 2013-2015 might not make profit or even small loss (those whom will make are the earlier investors)

2016-2018: KL's turn to be hot, with Tun Razak, High Speed Rail & 118 storey tower

if u belong to 10% of the crowd whom are genuine property investors, they would be sniffing out KL now at this point (and investing in a bigger way after elections), and the 70% of the crowd whom follows the herd would be buying into Iskandar.

What I see is nothing but contradictions in their own prediction.
They are just trying to pull a fast one on those gullible and ignorant novices.
 

Bluereeff

Alfrescian
Loyal
hi Bro,

not sure what your mean since you say... 2013-2015 : Hot years for Iskandar (his meaning of Iskandar is Nusajaya,
especially Puteri Harbour) then why people whom bought in 2013-2015 might not make profit or even small loss this doesn't seem to be tally to your statement if the region is hot should have more investor come in and the price will boom accordingly to??

If i interpret correctly, iskandar is very hot now. Every new launch sells like hot cake and pricing is getting higher and higher. Guess when those properties are completed, there would be many vacant units since most are investor and may cause a price correction.
 

Dfiris

Alfrescian
Loyal
Its all about price points... let me just put an example, new launches continue to hit benchmark record prices, lets say 2013 : RM1600, 2014 : RM1700 and 2015: RM1800.

If we look at 2015, assuming peak of the hot period, new launches and media reports of magic figure "RM1800psf" would be spreading around, but dun forget that it could be because the unit's size, facing, branding and amenities and most importantly the good job in marketing done by the team in the primary launch. Comparatively, the resale market at that time for units bought in 2013 (assuming he bought the highest price of RM1600psf) most likely will not be able to sell at "RM1800psf". From experience, u k put that as "asking", but the period of the peak is often quite short, like chinese saying "got price but no market", more seasoned investors would sell at the "bid price" to realise their profit gains. And that would be at RM1700psf or even RM1650psf, therefore buyers of earlier launches in 2010-2012 should be able to make a comfortable gain after all the outgoings. But for the newer buyers might not be so..

That does not mean if buying in 2013-2015 is wrong, its just that there might not be a resale market for your price range yet to make a comfortable profit. The new buyers will have to sit out the correction peiod first (could be minor adjustments) and ride on the next cycle to realise the profits in the resal market, by then the new primary market will have to reach RM1800-RM2000psf.

Please note that I do not have a crystal ball... the prices I used above is just for illustration to let some understand my point better. There are reasons for people to buy property at different price points, to different people from different markets and countries, the perception of "expensiv or not" is very different. We got to think more from a broader and open perspective. And there is no right and wrong for people to agree or disagree with me, ultimately we are all different because we are humans.


hi Bro,

not sure what your mean since you say... 2013-2015 : Hot years for Iskandar (his meaning of Iskandar is Nusajaya,
especially Puteri Harbour) then why people whom bought in 2013-2015 might not make profit or even small loss this doesn't seem to be tally to your statement if the region is hot should have more investor come in and the price will boom accordingly to??
 

Funniman

Alfrescian
Loyal
Hey, I was there too at the talk on Saturday. May I add a few more points:

All the panel speakers all agree that Iskandar is the top hotspot in Malaysia in 2013. Yes when he said iskandar, he is referring to Nusajaya, funnily he did not mention the JB CBD. Maybe he is engage by the organisers who had vested interests in Nusajaya, therefore his emphasis is more into this area.
In terms of correction, I think he is saying that developers who keep keep rising prices would realise the market acceptance level instead of raising the prices blindly.
Same applies to sellers in the subsale market.




I attended Gavin Tee's seminar over the weekend.

A few points to share with brothers of this community since we are all or mostly vested in PH:

2013-2015 : Hot years for Iskandar (his meaning of Iskandar is Nusajaya,
especially Puteri Harbour)

2015-2016 : Correction for Iskandar, people whom bought in 2013-2015 might not make profit or even small loss (those whom will make are the earlier investors)

2016-2018: KL's turn to be hot, with Tun Razak, High Speed Rail & 118 storey tower

if u belong to 10% of the crowd whom are genuine property investors, they would be sniffing out KL now at this point (and investing in a bigger way after elections), and the 70% of the crowd whom follows the herd would be buying into Iskandar.
 

Funniman

Alfrescian
Loyal
And I believe there are some unofficial fire sale of unsold condos in Spore as well....

No completed condos yet, where will the residents live? We will see some temporary residents once Traders is completed. :smile:

But I agree with you. This is a longer term play. Holding power is essential. Risks are high. But rewards may be handsome.

Every investment has a risk component. We like to think that Singapore is a safe bet. Someone I know last year bought a condo at from the developer at d'leedon at around SGD 1350 psf. The developer started giving 15% discount after the cooling measures. Down went his investment immediately by 15%. He is majorly upset but cannot do anything.

No one can predict the future. We all can look at the master plan, credibility and financial strength of the master developer, and take calculated risks.
 

IskandarRocks

Alfrescian
Loyal
Hey, I was there too at the talk on Saturday. May I add a few more points:

All the panel speakers all agree that Iskandar is the top hotspot in Malaysia in 2013. Yes when he said iskandar, he is referring to Nusajaya, funnily he did not mention the JB CBD. Maybe he is engage by the organisers who had vested interests in Nusajaya, therefore his emphasis is more into this area.
In terms of correction, I think he is saying that developers who keep keep rising prices would realise the market acceptance level instead of raising the prices blindly.
Same applies to sellers in the subsale market.

I think you are right. Some of these guys were recently invited by UEM to give talks in Singapore, Nusajaya, and KL. Since then, I have noticed that they have started blowing the Nusajaya and Cyberjaya horn (UEM has projects in Cyberjaya). So, I would take these guys with a grain of salt.
 

suntzu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Hello,

I'd like to pose this question here. I would appreciate some comments from fellow forumers here.

According to public reports, Rowsley is buying 9.23 hectares of land near Johor CIQ for S$358million. 1 hectare of land = 107,639 sq feet. So 9.23 hectares - 993508 sq feet. So Rowsley (Peter Lim's stock vehicle) is paying S$360 psf or about Rm890psf for land. From reading the threads here, latest purchase by the 4 tycoons around Puteri harbour was for about Rm167-296psf.
 

btravelling

Alfrescian
Loyal
I attended Gavin Tee's seminar over the weekend.

A few points to share with brothers of this community since we are all or mostly vested in PH:

2013-2015 : Hot years for Iskandar (his meaning of Iskandar is Nusajaya,
especially Puteri Harbour)

2015-2016 : Correction for Iskandar, people whom bought in 2013-2015 might not make profit or even small loss (those whom will make are the earlier investors)

2016-2018: KL's turn to be hot, with Tun Razak, High Speed Rail & 118 storey tower

if u belong to 10% of the crowd whom are genuine property investors, they would be sniffing out KL now at this point (and investing in a bigger way after elections), and the 70% of the crowd whom follows the herd would be buying into Iskandar.

Those who can, do, those who can't, teach (or give seminars).
I have never taken the real estate "experts and seminars" seriously. If they know so much why not just invest and make money, is it out of the goodness of their heart they want to share their knowledge, or is there is more money to be made in diverting the public the way they want, they are like boiler room stock promoters.
I am not an expert…and I don’t give seminars, I based the following on my research and experience.
I watched my hometown Vancouver become a part of the Pacific Rim by developing land adjacent to the city into a thriving water front community over a 15 year period (which the locals did not buy into at first, sound familiar?) The foreigner factor continues to influence the Vancouver real estate market, and from all indications Nusajaya is following in the same path.
Hearing about the investment by people from Japan, Taiwan, China, Thailand and Indonesia indicates Iskandar is not only driven by Singaporeans and Malaysians. Nor does it appear to be driven only by short term investment. It appears to be the birth or an ideally situated city, where people will want to live, work, play, visit, and retire. There have been parallels drawn with Shen Zhen to Hong Kong in terms of a support of the larger city but I see Iskandar being even more.
Yes a new government could create a self fulfilling prophecy creating restrictions which strangle foreign investment bring the entire thing down (Iskandar won't survive on local investors and buyers alone, nor could have Vancouver).
Yes Singapore could lock the gates and allow no one over the bridges.
Yes the real estate bubble in China could burst, dragging down stock markets, killing investment and the world economy, yes this would affect investment in Iskandar, and the rest of the world so nowhere is safe in that situation.
And there are other possibilities that could hurt Iskandar (what that guy said about rising sea water a while back :biggrin: ), however with the investment that has been made by gov and influential organization and people, the direction appears solid and positive. Where else has this kind of money being invested outside the Middle East and China?
When it comes to investing in KL, been there, don’t want to live there. I drink Coke, so why would I invest in Pepsi.
An in regards to prices, I do not believe they are as related to local historical prices and local debt service ratios then in other markets. This is a new city targeting foreign investors and foreigners to live there, and this has an impact.
I would not have paid 150,000 US for the first apartments in the waterfront of Vancouver when they were build, now they are now 700,000+ and as a well paid local I could not afford one, too bad for me, now is my chance at my waterfront condo and lifestyle.
And lastly Malaysia being rated #4th best place in the world to retire (if it was not for the bad climate rating of 60 out of 100, it would be close to number #1, what are they talking about I love the climate).
With the degrading security issues in Mexico and central America (I have to smile at the security concerns Singaporeans have with Iskandar), I expect a more baby boomer, early retiree wanabies, and people who figured out they are not funded well enough to retire in Europe and North America, will catch on and continue to spur demand for years to come.
I remember when there was only 4 billion people in the world, now there is 6, when Iskandar is done in 2025 there will be 8 billion, we have to live somewhere and God’s not making any new waterfront.
 

siacw

Alfrescian
Loyal
Hey, I was there too at the talk on Saturday. May I add a few more points:

All the panel speakers all agree that Iskandar is the top hotspot in Malaysia in 2013. Yes when he said iskandar, he is referring to Nusajaya, funnily he did not mention the JB CBD. Maybe he is engage by the organisers who had vested interests in Nusajaya, therefore his emphasis is more into this area.
In terms of correction, I think he is saying that developers who keep keep rising prices would realise the market acceptance level instead of raising the prices blindly.
Same applies to sellers in the subsale market.

whether the speaker was engage to promote nusajaya or not, i'm not sure but my view comparing JB CBD and nusajaya,

We have industrial park near nusajaya, we have port near nusajaya, we have theme park near nusajaya, we have educity near nusajaya, we have lots and lots and lots of project happening around nusajaya.

what does JB CBD has? build a few condo here and there doesn't really excite me.
 

Newbie11

Alfrescian
Loyal
Lots of happening bcos it's a greenfield. Cbd is many years ahead. U don't hear super news in matured area unless its a regeneration. But it has many news too.. And most imply, it has a population now.
 

tigerbear

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think you are right. Some of these guys were recently invited by UEM to give talks in Singapore, Nusajaya, and KL. Since then, I have noticed that they have started blowing the Nusajaya and Cyberjaya horn (UEM has projects in Cyberjaya). So, I would take these guys with a grain of salt.

Agree too...I felt his really bullish on few developer's projects...i was there also and he emphasis the next big thing will be 'government driven project-developers market'...his top 2013 - globalised ,tourism, urbanization , special economic zone . The best choices property in Johor : high end and low medium cost.
 

tigerbear

Alfrescian
Loyal
Same view! JBD and Danga bay both areas seems only Supply, Supply ,Supply coming out for condos,commercial and office... So,far i dont hear any major themes yet others than tourism....The latest was Capital Land bought a piece of land at Danga Bay according to the edge malaysia paper. They do not have strong theme like Nusajaya (ie, educity,industrial, theme park , movie studiometc etc)
 

allanckk

Alfrescian
Loyal
Its all about price points... let me just put an example, new launches continue to hit benchmark record prices, lets say 2013 : RM1600, 2014 : RM1700 and 2015: RM1800.

If we look at 2015, assuming peak of the hot period, new launches and media reports of magic figure "RM1800psf" would be spreading around, but dun forget that it could be because the unit's size, facing, branding and amenities and most importantly the good job in marketing done by the team in the primary launch. Comparatively, the resale market at that time for units bought in 2013 (assuming he bought the highest price of RM1600psf) most likely will not be able to sell at "RM1800psf". From experience, u k put that as "asking", but the period of the peak is often quite short, like chinese saying "got price but no market", more seasoned investors would sell at the "bid price" to realise their profit gains. And that would be at RM1700psf or even RM1650psf, therefore buyers of earlier launches in 2010-2012 should be able to make a comfortable gain after all the outgoings. But for the newer buyers might not be so..

That does not mean if buying in 2013-2015 is wrong, its just that there might not be a resale market for your price range yet to make a comfortable profit. The new buyers will have to sit out the correction peiod first (could be minor adjustments) and ride on the next cycle to realise the profits in the resal market, by then the new primary market will have to reach RM1800-RM2000psf.

Please note that I do not have a crystal ball... the prices I used above is just for illustration to let some understand my point better. There are reasons for people to buy property at different price points, to different people from different markets and countries, the perception of "expensiv or not" is very different. We got to think more from a broader and open perspective. And there is no right and wrong for people to agree or disagree with me, ultimately we are all different because we are humans.

hi Bro,

i agreed with you... thanks for your sharing....
 

wolverine23

Alfrescian
Loyal
Good views.

Iskandar is a good bet. How many times in your life can you get a chance to invest in an emerging metropolis??? :smile:


Those who can, do, those who can't, teach (or give seminars).
I have never taken the real estate "experts and seminars" seriously. If they know so much why not just invest and make money, is it out of the goodness of their heart they want to share their knowledge, or is there is more money to be made in diverting the public the way they want, they are like boiler room stock promoters.
I am not an expert…and I don’t give seminars, I based the following on my research and experience.
I watched my hometown Vancouver become a part of the Pacific Rim by developing land adjacent to the city into a thriving water front community over a 15 year period (which the locals did not buy into at first, sound familiar?) The foreigner factor continues to influence the Vancouver real estate market, and from all indications Nusajaya is following in the same path.
Hearing about the investment by people from Japan, Taiwan, China, Thailand and Indonesia indicates Iskandar is not only driven by Singaporeans and Malaysians. Nor does it appear to be driven only by short term investment. It appears to be the birth or an ideally situated city, where people will want to live, work, play, visit, and retire. There have been parallels drawn with Shen Zhen to Hong Kong in terms of a support of the larger city but I see Iskandar being even more.
Yes a new government could create a self fulfilling prophecy creating restrictions which strangle foreign investment bring the entire thing down (Iskandar won't survive on local investors and buyers alone, nor could have Vancouver).
Yes Singapore could lock the gates and allow no one over the bridges.
Yes the real estate bubble in China could burst, dragging down stock markets, killing investment and the world economy, yes this would affect investment in Iskandar, and the rest of the world so nowhere is safe in that situation.
And there are other possibilities that could hurt Iskandar (what that guy said about rising sea water a while back :biggrin: ), however with the investment that has been made by gov and influential organization and people, the direction appears solid and positive. Where else has this kind of money being invested outside the Middle East and China?
When it comes to investing in KL, been there, don’t want to live there. I drink Coke, so why would I invest in Pepsi.
An in regards to prices, I do not believe they are as related to local historical prices and local debt service ratios then in other markets. This is a new city targeting foreign investors and foreigners to live there, and this has an impact.
I would not have paid 150,000 US for the first apartments in the waterfront of Vancouver when they were build, now they are now 700,000+ and as a well paid local I could not afford one, too bad for me, now is my chance at my waterfront condo and lifestyle.
And lastly Malaysia being rated #4th best place in the world to retire (if it was not for the bad climate rating of 60 out of 100, it would be close to number #1, what are they talking about I love the climate).
With the degrading security issues in Mexico and central America (I have to smile at the security concerns Singaporeans have with Iskandar), I expect a more baby boomer, early retiree wanabies, and people who figured out they are not funded well enough to retire in Europe and North America, will catch on and continue to spur demand for years to come.
I remember when there was only 4 billion people in the world, now there is 6, when Iskandar is done in 2025 there will be 8 billion, we have to live somewhere and God’s not making any new waterfront.
 
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