NSP plays down prospects of party returning to SDA

[Sideswipe]

Balance of power does not apply to politics lest we end up with a hung parliament. Balance of power applies to country vs another of regional conflict as in super powers.

For some reason, you still have difficulty grasping basic political concepts and terms. I cringe when you roll out your comments on various political models and terms. Its obvious that you have no clue. Don't use terms that you do not understand. Just explain in simple terms what you mean and people will get you.

Your comments about local opposition leads me to believe that we should not contest the elections against the PAP. Yes, you did not call for a boycott except for NCMP but you should learn to play with what we got left after the PAP screwed the country. Be more hopeful.

your definition of balance of power is right. I am thinking about 2 party system but this concept should be used for coalition govt or international relations. I think I use the wrong term and fail to express myself clearly on this.

things are simple - if you are right, I don't argue for the sake of it, I will say I am wrong.

you should try to directly comment on what others write instead of making your own conclusions which might be wrong.
This one simple too - my comments about local opposition does not contain anything or suggest we should boycott elections against PAP. My issue with you are not - boycotting elections or accepting NCMP are right or wrong. The problem is I never say "boycott elections" in the first place, don't put words in my mouth. You interpret wrongly and continue harping about it. This is very rude.

 

[kingrant]

I see, it's a terrible Catch 22 situation. Singapore is truly in deep shit. We need People Power.

The trouble is that SDA despite being an alliance in intention has to be an actual political party in shape and form. This is where the rub is. The law only allow a contesting GRC team to come from the same party. One of GCT's many devious schemes. Though supposedly a shell, no one wants to be caught out like JBJ inspired defamation suit that nearly led to WP CEC being made bankrupt and thus out of the elections.

Thus the many conditions put out by RP etc. It also explains why Chiam holds the veto vote.

 

[scroobal]

Its funny that all the overseas critics have not realised that the electoral process is crippled and bears no resemblence to democracy or any form of elected govt.

Our overseas critics tend to focus on the death penalty, nepotism, authoritarian govt etc as though the PAP was elected fair and square.

Take Alan Shadrake for instance. The US has the death penalty but he does not seem concerned. He resides in Malaysia where the judiciary is thoroughly screwed but he seems more concerned with Singapore. And the Malaysian have the death penalty.

I see, it's a terrible Catch 22 situation. Singapore is truly in deep shit. We need People Power.

 

[kingrant]

I don't think the overseas critics are not aware. It is a thin tightrope between social issues and political issues.

Topics you mentioned that they champion count as social issues and generally are fair comment. If he gets persecuted, he can count on NGOs and liberal right wings to fight his battles. Even the U.S. and UK and international press will raise a stink and involve the State Dept. If he weighs in on GRCs and deposits etc, he may be walking into a trap set by the PAP and be accused of interference in domestic affairs and get thrown out.

In his book, Alan has focused on court cases involving death penalty and the variations in judgment and sentencing. If he wanders into the defamation cases and write the same stuff, he'll get sued as well.

Our overseas critics tend to focus on the death penalty, nepotism, authoritarian govt etc as though the PAP was elected fair and square.

Take Alan Shadrake for instance.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Subok,

If party doesn't take pride in its name and branding, it won't exist. If that is the case, there is no need "alliance" of any sorts but all opposition parties would have merged into one.

And NSP IS WILLING TO DO THAT and HAVE TRIED to convince SPP to do that. But regrettably, SPP has declined such move. Thus, NSP has moved on from there.

It is totally unfair of you to accuse NSP of talking about "branding". No opposition parties at present, are willing to talk about merger because no opposition parties are prepared to give up their party name, branding and heritage altogether.

Maybe it is little known to others, NSP was the prime mover of forming SDA during its formation years. But having tried out the alliance format for ten years, it has found that it is not working as well as it perceived. Thus, it left the very SDA that it helped to form.

Even with that, it was willing to go into a merger with SPP after Uncle Chiam suffered a stroke.

I guess with all these in view, NSP should be the last to be blamed for "opposition disunity".

At this instance, when the battle is right in front, it is totally unwise for NSP to change its battle formation. Voters have recognized NSP as a single separate entity. It will take a lot of time to reformulate public perception. We must always remember that layman, those people who don't follow politics as closely as you, would have a hard time to readjust their recognition of the party's electoral platform. It would mean that there is no value for both the SDA as well as NSP if the linkages of NSP-SDA are not imprinted in voters' mind.

Having said all these, NSP will not rule out any future alliance plan after this elections. This is basically because we will have 4 or 5 years to relaunch NSP as a component of SDA or any other alliance.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[kingrant]

GMS,

That is a frank reply and an honest assessment. You are right that one can only go so far to meet another half way; and if the feel is not right, I agree with you that the union must not be forced. It is also right that NSP not waste time and should then go about building up its image - which you are - in the voters' hearts and minds, while the SDA do theirs. In the end, Singapore voters will benefit when Opp entities are firmly anchored. NSP is taking on a GRC and understandably it has to have some bone mass, muscle and ballast, and able to punch above its weight.

Good luck and keep up the good work!

 

[manokie]

GMS wish you good luck at Tampines

Make sure you double the door to door visits.. Mr Mah is very active nowadays

 

[Subok]

Dear Subok,

If party doesn't take pride in its name and branding, it won't exist. If that is the case, there is no need "alliance" of any sorts but all opposition parties would have merged into one.

Suppose you are right on this. BUT we are now at the crux of the life and death! Singaporeans need to be liberated at all cost! Even if you switch NSP team to a WP @ Tampines GRC, the ground is just as sweet for Oppositions. If the team which included you in WP if I remembered correctly, in the AMK GRC can scored so beautifully against heavy weighted "imperial team" from PAP is telling at best! Therefore pls stop your nonsense of branding. I do not buy it and I believe, people on the ground who is hungry for a switch in government DO NOT BUY IT! Furthermore, what brand you want to talk about when you have NO RESULT thus far to talk about except for you to have sold your flat?

Let me show you WHAT is politics - Cao Cao could well be Liu Bei MOST hated enemy yet when comes to crux of the matter, Liu Bei raised to the occasion and went to assist Cao Cao. GMS THAT IS POLITICS! THAT IS A MAKING OF A GREAT MAN!

ONE THAT RETREAT AT THE BEAT OF THE ENEMY's DRUM IS NOT ANY HERO TO TALK ABOUT MUCH LESS "BRANDING"!

If I simpleton can LAUGH at your remarks of "BRANDING" I am sure the LEARNED PAP is biting their TOES in GREAT JUBILANT and LAUGHTER. Like me I guess, many have overestimated you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J8k8eRvHUQ

And NSP IS WILLING TO DO THAT and HAVE TRIED to convince SPP to do that. But regrettably, SPP has declined such move. Thus, NSP has moved on from there.

MOVE ON INDEED!

It is totally unfair of you to accuse NSP of talking about "branding". No opposition parties at present, are willing to talk about merger because no opposition parties are prepared to give up their party name, branding and heritage altogether.

Who is calling for merger? WHO CARES for merger? I believe all of us only CARE if opposition can kick PAP out! WHO CARES if the PARTY is ABC or salted veg fried roti! You go on market your PRADA! With much reluctance as much as I sincerely hope OPPOSITION wins if fate had it be YOU then I resign to fate!

Maybe it is little known to others, NSP was the prime mover of forming SDA during its formation years. But having tried out the alliance format for ten years, it has found that it is not working as well as it perceived. Thus, it left the very SDA that it helped to form.

After being living in Singapore I am surprised no one thought you this, i.e. NO one cares how you started, they only care how you ended. It may be GREAT NSP started the SDA, come on blow your trumpet! Please vuvezela also can, but WE ALL REMEMBERED how you left the SDA and TALK ABOUT BRANDING!

Let me assured this that this BRANDING will haunt you for the rest of your campaign. I wish you WELL.

Even with that, it was willing to go into a merger with SPP after Uncle Chiam suffered a stroke.

I guess with all these in view, NSP should be the last to be blamed for "opposition disunity".

Good times, NSP is there, BAD times NSP first to strike the retreat. Well much had been said through your actions.

At this instance, when the battle is right in front, it is totally unwise for NSP to change its battle formation. Voters have recognized NSP as a single separate entity. It will take a lot of time to reformulate public perception. We must always remember that layman, those people who don't follow politics as closely as you, would have a hard time to readjust their recognition of the party's electoral platform. It would mean that there is no value for both the SDA as well as NSP if the linkages of NSP-SDA are not imprinted in voters' mind.

Having said all these, NSP will not rule out any future alliance plan after this elections. This is basically because we will have 4 or 5 years to relaunch NSP as a component of SDA or any other alliance.

Goh Meng Seng

All we need is all opposition in agreement of a simple battle plan.

1. To contest in all wards
2. To avoid 3 corner fight

Is this too much to ask for?

I pleaded with the Almighty to delivers the people of Singapore from the crutches of the enemy but when I know I am not staying in Tampines GRC, I thank the Almighty nevertheless, I need not vote against my conscious though as much as I wished for the enemy to be destroyed!


Mr HONORABLE PRADA GMS, ALL THE BEST! I meant "ALL THE BEST TO YOUR BRANDING" May your yield per share returns increase through our effort in branding the company business and all investors may reap a handsome profit!

BUT WAIT A MINUTE? What do you mean? Your Company is not even listed on the MAIN Board of SGX?

NO WAIT A SECOND! What do you mean? You mean your company is not even registered in ROC?

THEN WHAT F* BRANDING YOU TALKING ABOUT?

(sorry for the expletives, for its unbecoming of me to demean the use of expletives)

 

[Subok]

NSP I conclude are made up of political wannabes. NO real contenders of PAP. Should CST leave the political scene, I believe the few giants that left will be KJ, LTK, and maybe in lose form CSJ and SDP in parts. As for the rest, it will be "THE REST". Mark my words! Singaporeans are unforgiving lot. Someone that "jump camp" that talks about "branding" and tinch of "Narcissism" can't be far from extinction however righteous, honorable his intention is.

I am sorry.

 

[Subok]

Dear GMS,

The damage would not have been big had you just losely mention it here on this platform. But on a NATIONAL media who happens to be an "unofficial" mouth piece of PAP? The damage is colossal.

Just got a few calls from some friends, all laughing about "branding". "... this GMS talking what branding? Got wings no wings??" .... "huh? ya they must do some serious branding cause not sure its for mass consumption or self consumption"...

I hope all is not a lost cause. I still will go all temples, churches and , mosques and pray that OPPOSITION WINS in Tampines GRC. ... #!$*@#$%$@%) # better baboons than PAP..

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Subok,

It seems that you are totally confused of what constitutes an "alliance" and what your objectives means.

You say you have two simple objectives:

1) To have all wards contested
2) Not to have any 3 corner fight

But what has this got to do with whether NSP joins an alliance or not? You mean by joining an alliance, we will have all wards contested? And if NSP joined an alliance, there will be no 3 corner fight? But please bear in mind that SDP and WP are not in SDA as well!

With or without alliance, opposition parties have avoided 3 corner fights since the beginning of this century. With or without alliance, opposition parties still could not field candidates to contest ALL seats since 1991.

Thus I cannot understand why you would connect your objectives with NSP's joining or not joining SDA.

Whether we like it or not, each and every political parties have their distinctive differences in build up and composition which give them their branding characteristics. That is precisely they survive as individual parties and not as one.

If you are so detest about "branding", you should be asking all opposition parties to MERGE as one instead! There is nothing wrong for individual opposition to carve out their niche and branding. This is regardless of whether they are in any alliance or not. Even individual parties within an alliance like SDA should build up their own brand name as well. An alliance with parties which do not have their own unique identity isn't going to work.
Successful alliance like Malaysian opposition front is one that contains political parties that have very strong distinctive branding.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

He means well. Like some in this forum and many in Singapore, politics is not well understood. For some reason people associate success with unity when it comes to singapore politics.

I even recall a dialogue with academics where one chap went on and on about disunity being the Achilles hell of opposition politics. When asked to elaborate, this chap could not explain. It appears that this chap too was looking for one united opposition party. In essence a 2 party state.

Dear Subok,

It seems that you are totally confused of what constitutes an "alliance" and what your objectives means.

You say you have two simple objectives:

1) To have all wards contested
2) Not to have any 3 corner fight

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

He means well. Like some in this forum and many in Singapore, politics is not well understood. For some reason people associate success with unity when it comes to singapore politics.

I even recall a dialogue with academics where one chap went on and on about disunity being the Achilles hell of opposition politics. When asked to elaborate, this chap could not explain. It appears that this chap too was looking for one united opposition party. In essence a 2 party state.

Dear Scroobal,

I know he means well but sometimes I just cannot understand why people see things the way they see. I have made my points very clear right from the start on why certain things cannot be done but yet it seems that people are so attached to the notion of "opposition unity".

I am never a fan of two party state. I believe in multi-party political culture, more inclined to the Nordic system of proportionate representation instead of the British or the American systems.

In the short run, PAP is of course the obstacle to political plurality and it seems natural for it to become the "common enemy" for all opposition parties. However, any political movement that pitch itself on a "common enemy" will not work forever. If such "unity" is based on this particular "common enemy", it would have lost direction when the "common enemy" gets eliminated.

A vacuum of "purpose" could be very dangerous. Historically, we have seen man-made disasters happening right after a common foe has been defeated.

Unity must be based on something more solid than just "common enemy". Core values and beliefs must be aligned. And most important of all, each and every members of the alliance must be able to contribute to the growth or multiplier effect of combined forces. An alliance filled with Freeloaders will not work at all.

Alliance or "opposition unity" is not the "fix all" solution to PAP's dominance. Each and every opposition parties must strive to grow on their own, with or without any alliance formed.

In fact, human nature dictates that there is a high tendency for people to fall into over reliance of others once they know there is always someone out there to take care of them. This is basically the freeloader mentality.

It is only when you are left on your own to fend for yourself, you will learn to be street survivor.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Subok]

Well the POLL will tell!

If every Singaporean aunties uncles saw YOUR line of reasoning PAP will LONG already been archived!

But sadly, that's not the way people see it.

The poll shall be the answer. Either ways GMS, you are not CUT out to be PM. If you do become dominant, rest assured I will join a political party to BRING you down at all cost!

Someone which such narrow perspective does not deserve to be even an MP. Do not give CRAP reasoning. You think DAP and PAS are likely bed fellas? I am not even asking for some kind of hype up SUPER DUPER Alliance. But at least one that sticks with each other however different for the sake of greater good like PAS and DAP.

Go feud for yourself that's what NSP is doing anyway.

If politics is a calling of HIGH order, I am sure the calling did not reach you. You are hallucinating a calling.

A Jump Boat man, .... if he did it once, he will do it again.

all the best! May you win Tampines GRC for the sake of opposition, and if it got to be you be elected then for the greater good, I accept but not without disdain.

however, I forecast that you will fail. Because Singaporeans at large ARE apolitical. They do not forgive traitors and those who think far ahead even B4 the chicken lay AN eggSHELL.

yup NSP IS a street survivor alright! that's why NEA resort to treating you all, STREET HAWKERS and now I wonder why! Even the HEAD of NSP recognize them as street survivor! Self realization of self prophesy!

NSP will never be a component notable force in parliament. THeir brand of politics TOO up-class! and MARK me you GMS, the MEDIA will EXPLOIT and JUICED every bits of your BLUNDER and cast the shadow @ the opposition at large! You are so NARCISSISTIC to think it is only about YOU!

Good thing PAP had "provided" flats for your parents and maybe siblings if not today not only your party is "street hawkers" oopppss sorry "street survivor" and you a destitute the police would love to place @ IMH and certify you mentally unfit. you are such a myopic!

You think it is all about YOU and NSP when media ask about your opinions. You are SO NAIVE!

LOOK AT THE TITLE OF the Article "NSP plays down prospects of party returning to SDA "

You are already a political liability to the opposition. You think the general Singaporeans will give you a second chance to explain yourself?

Where have you been all these years and you are still a political newbies to be played around and into the hands of the enemy and STILL DO NOT KNOW?

If I am Sec-Gen of NSP, I would SACK you immediately!


To be a politician, one must speaks only when the masses are ready and knowingly, one must hold his peace when asked about his compatriots because the masses will not judge what you say about the compatriots but what you said that "says" about you!

Look at RP! how many years of history? YET the respect they command in SUCH short span of time though JBJ is largely the reason, but if KJ is not astute enough, he will not be able to carry it through.

If GMS you wish for a political career seek out leaders who will take you under their wing. You could well be a good lieutenant but never a CAPTAIN.

Take this advice and you will soar but if you continue to believe you have what it takes to be PM, you will be greatly disappointed and even till the day you lay rest your head in the earth, hardly, mark you me my words, hardly you will be remembered. BUT if you serve under a good leader, you will always be remembered as the great lieutenant much like GKS. OR die as an unknown leader.

all the best, admire your courage but sadly it's just COURAGE at best.

 

[Subok]

If you are so detest about "branding", you should be asking all opposition parties to MERGE as one instead! There is nothing wrong for individual opposition to carve out their niche and branding. This is regardless of whether they are in any alliance or not. Even individual parties within an alliance like SDA should build up their own brand name as well. An alliance with parties which do not have their own unique identity isn't going to work.
Successful alliance like Malaysian opposition front is one that contains political parties that have very strong distinctive branding.

Goh Meng Seng

RE-Quote if the msg did not even get through you:-

Mr HONORABLE PRADA GMS, ALL THE BEST! I meant "ALL THE BEST TO YOUR BRANDING" May your yield per share returns increase through your effort in branding the company business and all investors may reap a handsome profit!

BUT WAIT A MINUTE? What do you mean? Your Company is not even listed on the MAIN Board of SGX?

NO WAIT A SECOND! What do you mean? You mean your company is not even registered in ROC?

THEN WHAT F* BRANDING YOU TALKING ABOUT?

(sorry for the expletives, for its unbecoming of me to demean the use of expletives)

 

[Subok]

.

In Singapore's context, the component parties of SDA lacks "POSITIVE" visibility. Apart from having Uncle Chiam as an MP in parliament, very little is known about PKMS, SJP or even SPP itself because they do not make themselves known by actively engaging in policy discussions or making their party's stands heard.

Goh Meng Seng

If you are not a political newbies I do not know what else to say. PKMS though may be crippled in certain sense, I believe their "BRANDING" is more successful than yours!

 

[kingrant]

Subok,

You shld read Scro's reply to my earlier post. It has explained why an alliance is necessary for contesting a GRC. Also, if GMS doesnt want to join SDA, naturally he has to build visibility and image for NSP. No need to carp on his branding.

Dear Subok,

It seems that you are totally confused of what constitutes an "alliance" and what your objectives means.

You say you have two simple objectives:

1) To have all wards contested
2) Not to have any 3 corner fight

But what has this got to do with whether NSP joins an alliance or not? You mean by joining an alliance, we will have all wards contested? And if NSP joined an alliance, there will be no 3 corner fight? But please bear in mind that SDP and WP are not in SDA as well!

With or without alliance, opposition parties have avoided 3 corner fights since the beginning of this century. With or without alliance, opposition parties still could not field candidates to contest ALL seats since 1991.

Thus I cannot understand why you would connect your objectives with NSP's joining or not joining SDA.

Whether we like it or not, each and every political parties have their distinctive differences in build up and composition which give them their branding characteristics. That is precisely they survive as individual parties and not as one.

If you are so detest about "branding", you should be asking all opposition parties to MERGE as one instead! There is nothing wrong for individual opposition to carve out their niche and branding. This is regardless of whether they are in any alliance or not. Even individual parties within an alliance like SDA should build up their own brand name as well. An alliance with parties which do not have their own unique identity isn't going to work.
Successful alliance like Malaysian opposition front is one that contains political parties that have very strong distinctive branding.

Goh Meng Seng

The trouble is that SDA despite being an alliance in intention has to be an actual political party in shape and form. This is where the rub is. The law only allow a contesting GRC team to come from the same party. One of GCT's many devious schemes. Though supposedly a shell, no one wants to be caught out like JBJ inspired defamation suit that nearly led to WP CEC being made bankrupt and thus out of the elections.

Thus the many conditions put out by RP etc. It also explains why Chiam holds the veto vote.

 

[scroobal]

Agree with your views. In fact a 2 party state will work for the PAP as they can focus on bringing down one party and replacing it with a puppet party. There has already been talk of 2 parties that have the same ethos and meant to give the impression to simpletons that a full fledged democracy exist.

On hindsight, NSP withdrawing appears to be good move as the current turmoil in SPP/SDA is an issue.


May Singaporeans would better understand the term "loose alliance". I am actually perplexed why opposition unity is taken as an absolute in this country and people are so emotional about the subject. Maybe if they relate democracy like EPL they would understand that no such as opposition unity in multi-team league.

I am never a fan of two party state. I believe in multi-party political culture, more inclined to the Nordic system of proportionate representation instead of the British or the American systems.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Agree with your views. In fact a 2 party state will work for the PAP as they can focus on bringing down one party and replacing it with a puppet party. There has already been talk of 2 parties that have the same ethos and meant to give the impression to simpletons that a full fledged democracy exist.

On hindsight, NSP withdrawing appears to be good move as the current turmoil in SPP/SDA is an issue.


May Singaporeans would better understand the term "loose alliance". I am actually perplexed why opposition unity is taken as an absolute in this country and people are so emotional about the subject. Maybe if they relate democracy like EPL they would understand that no such as opposition unity in multi-team league.

Whatever system of democracy anyone wants or thinks is best, it should be very clear that the PAPies have to be voted out first.

It is as simple as that. If our resources are put to this one goal of kicking out the PAPies, then everything else that they people want can and likely will be achieved.

So forget about the inconsequential bits and concentrate on removing the PAPies from power at the next GE.

 

[Fu Xi]

bump~~~~~~