Hougang BE - the "open-ended" faux pas

[zhihau]

That settles it. Thank you." And that's my point.

姜还是老的辣

 

[Perspective]

姜还是老的辣

You mean me?

 

[zhihau]

You mean me?

heheh...
but bro, at some point in time, wouldn't there be a free-for-all in a lot of constituencies?

 

[Perspective]

heheh...
but bro, at some point in time, wouldn't there be a free-for-all in a lot of constituencies?

Nearly all constituencies were contested except Tanjong Pagar and I think if WP is not going there, SDP probably would. It won't be free for all, but there will be jostling and bad taste in the mouths. WP would probably expand 2 GRCs more and encroach and anger others but wouldn't do more not entirely due to limiting this anger but resources concern. SPP would be fine to stick to just BTP. SDP too would go for 2-3 GRCs as unlike WP, it is an even chance in a 3CF, while RP has enough for one. NSP + TJS will take much of the rest and, while avoiding each other, have the most jostling with WP.

In the long run, I cannot tell.

 

[zhihau]

In the long run, I cannot tell.

noted with grace, bro

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Perspective,

A3F has absolutely nothing to do with moral values or principles, its about political horse trading against a common enemy i.e the PAP. The person you hate the most is in my view banging on and lobbying for a 3CF hence his diatribes about the weaknesses in the WP and his leaking to the press of such stories. I have never believed in destroying an opponent before building oneself up idea but rather in the building oneself first and then competing in every means possible ideal.

Hougang is abt horse trading, the bottom line being that NSP and TJS want something for not being spoilers. The question is does WP want to deal in any way.


Locke





QUOTE=Perspective;996501]There's a saying "turn the other cheek" for a reason - when one is being "slapped" so to speak and returns that, both parties are in the
same moral position and this factor will be eradicated as a determinant on higher moral ground, shifting to other factors.

By announcing that they will keep their cards open on the Hougang by-election, the NSP and TJS (and his new party if so) is explicitly though indirectly stating that avoiding 3-corner fights is not inherently within their principles or values. Even if they do not do so in the end (ie enter the Hougang BE), this may open them to negotiating problems later in 2016, as they lose the moral authority to ask WP or other parties (eg. SDP, SPP) to allow them a straight fight on this basis.

On top of that, if Hougang which was a WP held ward can be open-ended, more so for wards under the PAP even if they had been the last contesting opposition. I believe that could be why SDP was eager to declare that they would not enter the Hougang BE. Desmond Lim also keeps his moral ground on the basis that it was WP, not him, who was the 3rd party. As for the NSP and TJS, this "open-ended" faux pas may well spell an end to future requests that 3-corners fights be averted.[/QUOTE]

 

[Perspective]

Dear Perspective,

A3F has absolutely nothing to do with moral values or principles, its about political horse trading against a common enemy i.e the PAP. The person you hate the most is in my view banging on and lobbying for a 3CF hence his diatribes about the weaknesses in the WP and his leaking to the press of such stories. I have never believed in destroying an opponent before building oneself up idea but rather in the building oneself first and then competing in every means possible ideal.

Hougang is abt horse trading, the bottom line being that NSP and TJS want something for not being spoilers. The question is does WP want to deal in any way.

Agree with you, which brings me to the point that if anyone wants to put 3CF avoidance as a moral issue, then he/she loses out in the event that he/she needs to do, like in this case.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Perspective,

Any politician who choses in a 3CF in Hougang will do a GMS. Talk about democratic principles, offering choices etc etc , maybe something about the current weakness in the WP and offering greater choice against the PAP. Its to be expected.

The question is what does throwing a 3CF bomb do for every other political party ? And in this please understand that all opposition parties lose in a 3CF scenario. the fact that some lose more and some lose less is at the end of the day a calculation for spiteful in fighting but the biggest winner is the PAP.

Should the WP deal ? I believe it should for the bigger picture and because if things go haywire it has the most to lose as the biggest growing party.





Locke

Agree with you, which brings me to the point that if anyone wants to put 3CF avoidance as a moral issue, then he/she loses out in the event that he/she needs to do, like in this case.

 

[Ramseth]

Nearly all constituencies were contested except Tanjong Pagar and I think if WP is not going there...

I think Tanjong Pagar inclusive in consideration. Tanjong Pagar is neighboring Moulmein-Kallang and old man surely can't stand in next GE even if still alive.

 

[Perspective]

And in this please understand that all opposition parties lose in a 3CF scenario. the fact that some lose more and some lose less is at the end of the day a calculation for spiteful in fighting but the biggest winner is the PAP.

You may not agree, but in the long run, maturity will occur when a party can win on its own right. With the biggest party being more free of external causes than the second biggest, the biggest will still dominate anyway. The US, being known as democratic, you will hardly hear of a 3rd party ever standing a chance of getting significantly close to the first 2 parties.

 

[Perspective]

I think Tanjong Pagar inclusive in consideration. Tanjong Pagar is neighboring Moulmein-Kallang and old man surely can't stand in next GE even if still alive.

I tend to think WP will expand into TP and Tampines while keeping to the old seats, if based on the present boundaries, but of course we know boundaries change. Justification to enter TP will be similar to when WP entered MK - it's an unclaimed ward or new ward. Justification to enter Tampines is NSP's six consecutive losses in 1988, 1991, 1997 (disqualified), 2001 (SDA), 2006 (SDA) and 2011. Plus now, perhaps one new reason - "you interested in Hougang, we also interested Tampines".

Non-WP opposition's best chance is NSP plugging Marine Parade because GCT is also not going to run.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Perspective,

I do agree when u have say 18 wp mps, 3 SDP Mps and perhaps one NSP mp. and the PAP has lost its 2/3rds. But to grow to that stage some form of deal making is necessary. To argue that 3Cfs will prove the dominance of a second party when the numbers are so low is myopic and navel gazing. The current numbers and electoral national split means that in a 3CF the WP will come in second but not win many seats and that is small consideration. Not wining means not wining there are no prizes for being second.


Locke

You may not agree, but in the long run, maturity will occur when a party can win on its own right. With the biggest party being more free of external causes than the second biggest, the biggest will still dominate anyway. The US, being known as democratic, you will hardly hear of a 3rd party ever standing a chance of getting significantly close to the first 2 parties.

 

[Perspective]

Dear Perspective,

I do agree when u have say 18 wp mps, 3 SDP Mps and perhaps one NSP mp. and the PAP has lost its 2/3rds. But to grow to that stage some form of deal making is necessary. To argue that 3Cfs will prove the dominance of a second party when the numbers are so low is myopic and navel gazing. The current numbers and electoral national split means that in a 3CF the WP will come in second but not win many seats and that is small consideration. Not wining means not wining there are no prizes for being second.


Locke

I agree, that's why I say "in the long run". Also, to go into a 3CF in one ward is different from going into 3CF whole islandwide. I believe the number of 3CF will slowly and gradually increase in tandem with increase in opposition candidates and seats - not a one-shot thing from islandwide straight fights to islandwide 3CF in just 5 years.

 

[Ramseth]

I tend to think WP will expand into TP and Tampines while keeping to the old seats, if based on the present boundaries, but of course we know boundaries change. Justification to enter TP will be similar to when WP entered MK - it's an unclaimed ward or new ward. Justification to enter Tampines is NSP's six consecutive losses in 1988, 1991, 1997 (disqualified), 2001 (SDA), 2006 (SDA) and 2011. Plus now, perhaps one new reason - "you interested in Hougang, we also interested Tampines".

Non-WP opposition's best chance is NSP plugging Marine Parade because GCT is also not going to run.

MBT also won't be fielded in the next GE. It's PAP SOP, step down as minister means ease off into retirement by next GE. With the Tampines-fanatic GMS and his nemesis MBT gone, I agree it looks best for NSP to stay camped on Marine Parade - Mountbatten as GCT will be gone too. With some work and luck, they may yet turn it into their own base camp like what Aljunied - Hougang is to WP.

 

[scroobal]

Agree with you.

Sebastian and Chris have been doing this for yonks. They are paid to do it and they will use anyone from GMS, Hazel and even TJS. From WP, they went to SDP, then started their own and we all know the rest.

The danger is that this arseholes are looking for a "quality" candidate to split the votes considerably.

Perhaps, and the long-term game for WP would probably be to enter the room, state the wards they are going to, then bye-bye, to show they are engaged.

But now there's a new ammo. Imagine Sylvia saying to Hazel, "Didn't NSP consider coming to Hougang? Surely they won't mind us going Tampines. That settles it. Thank you." And that's my point.

 

[GoldenDragon]

Agree with you.

Sebastian and Chris have been doing this for yonks. They are paid to do it and they will use anyone from GMS, Hazel and even TJS. From WP, they went to SDP, then started their own and we all know the rest.

The danger is that this arseholes are looking for a "quality" candidate to split the votes considerably.

Spotted one of them about 10 days ago with his maid and two daughters along Jln Besar. With them around, expect sabotage. They are well paid.

 

[scroobal]

I hinted to GMS when he first joined NSP but he always ask what is wrong with Seb. Now looks like he also joined the gang.

Spotted one of them about 10 days ago with his maid and two daughters along Jln Besar. With them around, expect sabotage. They are well paid.

 

[Ramseth]

Spotted one of them about 10 days ago with his maid and two daughters along Jln Besar. With them around, expect sabotage. They are well paid.

It's not difficult to spot NSP and WP members around Jalan Besar. Both HQs are there within two bus-stop distance.

 

[GoldenDragon]

I hinted to GMS when he first joined NSP but he always ask what is wrong with Seb. Now looks like he also joined the gang.

All 3 cannot be trusted. Pity their members who may look up to these chaps. They are worse than animals.

 

[GoldenDragon]

It's not difficult to spot NSP and WP members around Jalan Besar. Both HQs are there within two bus-stop distance.

Am aware of WP's but not NSP's. I have the habit of loitering with intent in the vicinity of Jln Besar. Many HFJs there.