Yaccob tries to defned his children--but fails

[Nice-Gook]

This is the wrong interpretation of the Singapore Constitution. If this is the case, the Singapore Constitution won't specifically written clearly that if you acquire the citizenship of the country of birth, you are not eligible to apply for Singapore Citizenship. Apparently, the Constitution doesn't allow dual citizenship even at birth, why should it allow dual citizenship up to 21 years old?



Goh Meng Seng

I see where you are coming from....and if that is so you indeed have a pertinent and a valid point.I am not a constitutional expert but it would help if you can cite that particular para of our constitution....please do.

In short,you are saying Singapore law cannot stop another country holding in reserve it's citizenship for one but one should not exercise it ;...is it?

If what you are saying is true,Yaccob is in real shit....and so is the entire government .

 

[Nice-Gook]

..moreover the irony is not lost when yaacob of all pple is the guest of honour at a newbie citizens event!!...

That also crossed my mind.The gall of this Yaccob welcoming new citizens while his wife and children are still foreigners !.....what kind of example is this?

This is the mother of all balloony .

 

[Unrepented]

Yeah, GMS does have a point. Imagine if all under 18 year olds singaporeans holds dual citizenships, how the hell is mindef gonna plan manpower.

That also crossed my mind.The gall of this Yaccob welcoming new citizens while his wife and children are still foreigners !.....what kind of example is this?

This is the mother of all balloony .

 

[Windsor]

Both his kids were born in Singapore. At age 32, his wife, Maria Seda, became pregnant with their first son. Yaacob was 38 then. Hamzah Yaacob was born in May 1995.

His daughter, Hana Yaacob, now 14, was also born in Singapore (sometime in 1997).

The shenanigans of Yacoob regarding his family status and possibly many other ministers in the government and perhaps also that of many senior top civil servants point to one ugly fact. No second guessing what it is. The PM has allowed such behavior and there has been no firm rules regarding these matters. As far as the public is concerned, it is not about dual citizenships, wife and family staying abroad or whatever should be a private family affair. As one of the leaders of the nation, Yaccob has no right to speak on our behalf to welcome new citizens and be one of those in the government acquiescing Singapore the use of taxpayers' money to make new citizens feel at home.

How is it acceptable to any Singaporean that here we have a minister not wanting his family to live in Singapore, have one foot in another country, yet inviting foreigners to set up homes here. If this country is our home but not his or his family's home, what right does he have to invite them here? Yaacob must come clean and make public his intentions about his family.

My point then is, we have a weak PM who cannot stand up to the misbehavior of his ministers and also cannot tell those 2 old men in his office to retire and save us some money. We all have a firm stake in this country and let no one, the PM, the 2 old men and any government officials have the liberty to do as they like as this country belongs to all of us.

 

[eatshitndie]

Yeah, GMS does have a point. Imagine if all under 18 year olds singaporeans holds dual citizenships, how the hell is mindef gonna plan manpower.

since sg is a hotel anyway and public toilet to a certain extent with easy come and easy go policies for foreigners, frauds and riff rafts, do the unthinkable and abolish ns. the saf can still function in its capacity with a smaller professional force. the practice of maintaining multiple 20k-man infantry divisions with a screwed up liberal ft policy yet draconian rules for her own male citizens baffles every strategic military thinker.

 

[Nice-Gook]

Yeah, GMS does have a point. Imagine if all under 18 year olds singaporeans holds dual citizenships, how the hell is mindef gonna plan manpower.

Let's hear GMS first.

Anyway,an old saying for a guy who died in an accident is ' he was dead on right but right on dead'...meaning yes you had right of the way but so what you still died.

The point being the husband and wife lawyers team had amended our constitution so many times in so many ways the interpretation would boggles one mind....they had aim to win regardless.So,if you or GMS challenge our constitution in our court of law the legal fees alone would bankrupt you.And if you still pursue,the judge would reserve his judgement to come with 100 pages 6 months later that you are wrong.....so why look at this issue at an legal angle in the first place?

But moral issue is entirely another cattle of fish,the citizens and neitizens adjudicate......Can any minister of any sovereign state defend their locus standing with a foreign family? !!!!!

 

[Checker]

YI is a Minister & leader. He's not dual citizen. If so, he deserves even more anger. His wife is an inidividual in her own right with her own beliefs. Her family in US. Husband & wife need not agree on everything. And they jointly decide for their children until age 21. What's wrong with giving children the option to decide at age 21 which country they want to live in? Of course parents can advise but why force one way or another? Similar for career, marriage, life decisions. Regardless, the issue about NS is crystal clear here - no way to escape without breaking the law big time.

But he really shouldn't have been anywhere near in the New Citizen ceremony. Pure political stupidity in this toxic climate after the TT/ PT fiasco. Think this came up even after the Wikileaks, making it even more stupid.

Of course, given his status, money, ability to locate anywhere in the world because of the citizenship status of his family, he is luckier than almost any Singaporean. We're jealous. We're so pathetic because we're also jealous of the many expats, PRs, FTs who can similarly relocate to greener pastures when they've made enough money or had enough.

 

[Nice-Gook]

YI is a Minister & leader. He's not dual citizen. If so, he deserves even more anger. His wife is an inidividual in her own right with her own beliefs. .

Absolutely wrong friend.

Why?Because as a public figure you should not only set an example but lead by that example.

To illustrate,let me take you to the extreme example.It is perfectly legal to wine,dine and womanize....Would you accept if your PM enters the sammyboy sex forum and share his exploits is Geylang?

This is where morality kicks in...do you know in US the office of presidency ONLY belongs to those who are born in US soil?...you could have been born elsewhere as a US citizen but that does not qualify you for presidency office.The very reason Obama actual place of birth still haunts the congress.

Moreover as a public figure you are under public scrutiny every minute.There is no immunity here.And if one cannot take the heat than get out of the kitchen.I am simply saying if Yaccob cries foul of privacy issue over his wife and children than quit politics and move on.

 

[Papsmearer]

You are right but technically, this is in contradiction to the Constitution which has stated in no ambiguity that any child born in foreign land who has acquired the citizenship of the country of birth shall not enjoy the right to Singapore citizenship by descend.

Goh Meng Seng

Where the kids were born is irrelevant in this case. If the kids were born in the US, they are US citizens by virtue of their birth place. If they were born in SIngapore, they would still be US citizens by virtue of their mother being an American.

 

[Papsmearer]

I find that this Shit Times article is very misleading and deliberately so. Yourcock says that because his wife is a US citizen, it confers dual citizenship on his kids until 18 years of age. My understanding from the Singapore citizenship law is that the aqe of chioce is 21, not 18 years. Also, the singapore law is very clear, there is no dual citizenhip recognized officially regardless of age, whether you are 18 years or even younger. The law simply says that when you are age 21, you must make a choice whether you want to be a singapore citizen or the citizen of the other country that u are also recognized as. U cannot hold 2 citizenships. So, unless Yourcock was given special treatment, his kids were not supposed to be "confer" dual citizenships.

The fact is why are his kid even US citizens in the first place? Regardless of whether they are born here or not, they should have given up their US citizenship right away. If a Singapore citizenship is not good enough for the kids of a rich elite ministers like him, than how about us? The optics of this are really bad. If he wants to prove himself a real singaporean, his wife should have even given up her US citizenship.He fails to state unequivocally where his kids were born in the Shit Times article.

The real questions we should asking Yourcock is "Are you now a US Permanent Resident? Did your wife sponsor you already?"
He should also be asked whether he intends to apply for US citizenship or PR in the future. Since his kids are all US citizens they can sponsor him under the family re-unification program.

If his original intention was for the son to do NS anyway, shouldn't the son have renounced his US citizenship long before? Why continue to hold dual citizenship. I believe what really happened was that his kids were born in the US. Not in Singapore. His original intention was for the son not to do NS, but just leave for US bachelor studies after his Pre-U or secondary school. Down the road, his plan is to ask his family to sponor him for US green card.

Now thanks to Sammyboy, Wikileaks, and the SIngapore internet brigade, his scheme has been found out. Now the son tulan got to do NS, and on top of that must also renounce his US citizenship, hence killing his chance of US green card down the road. Well done to everyone. I am just waiting to see what cushy job they will invent for him in NS ala Pat tan. Big kid like him should be automatic Commandoes OCS due to his size. But no way that will happen.

 

[scroobal]

Show me the law that states that you cannot hold more 2 citizenship. Most people assume there is such a law.There is no such law. There never has been any such law.

There is law that states about not looking after your pigs, goats, horses and cow and I listed below. But believe me the PAP really has fooled you.

"Offences relating to animals
12. —(1) Any person who commits any of the following offences shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $1,000:<dl>(a) being the owner or person in charge of any animal allows the animal to injure any tree or plant, or fence round any tree or plant, in or at the side of any public road, or to graze on the side of any public road;</dl><dl>(b) allows any horse, cattle, goat, sheep or pig to stray upon, or tethers or pickets any such animal upon, any public road or State land or land in the possession of any local authority or public institution or land in the possession of any private person, without the permission of the owner or lawful occupier thereof; or</dl><dl>(c) leads or drives any horse, cattle, goat, sheep or pig in or near any public road without having them under proper control."

I know of retired civil servants, businessmen, and many others who are corporate identity that hold more than one citizenship. What the govt does not do is to teach how to work out things for yourself.

There are many regulations that forbid a a holder of foreign citizenship serving in certain sector such as civil servce , SAF etc.

</dl>

U cannot hold 2 citizenships. .

 

[steffychun]

Yaccob is cleverer than Lee. Lee never bothered with getting his children a US citizenship.

 

[depeche]

Yaccob is just earning his wealth in SG and F off to US when the time is right...
Come to think of it...it's human nature lah!

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

The following is taken from Singapore Constitution on Citizenship:

(2) A person born outside Singapore shall not be a citizen of Singapore by descent by virtue of clause (1) unless —

(a) his birth is registered in the prescribed manner at the Registry of Citizens or at a diplomatic or consular mission of Singapore within one year, or such longer period as the Government permits, after its occurrence; and

(b) he would not acquire the citizenship of the country in which he was born by reason of his birth in that country where —

(i) in the case of a person born before the date of commencement of section 7 of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Act 2004, his father is a citizen of Singapore by registration at the time of his birth; or

(ii) in the case of a person born on or after the date of commencement of section 7 of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Act 2004, either his father or mother is a citizen of Singapore by registration at the time of his birth.

This clause basically says that one who is born overseas shall not be eligible to Citizenship by Descend UNLESS he did not acquire the citizenship of the country of birth and provided that if he is born before 2004, his father must be Singapore Citizen OR if he is born AFTER 2004 (the year they amend the Constitution) either his father or mother is a Singapore citizen.

The spirit of the Singapore Constitution in disallowing Dual Citizenship is embedded here, practically states that no one, even from birth, should hold dual citizenship. i.e. If you acquire the citizenship of the country of birth (which is foreign), then you are NOT eligible for Singapore citizenship by descend.

Taking of oath for those who are born in foreign lands at the age of 21 is a just a formality, at the age of legality, to make sure you that you do not hold dual/multiple citizenship. If you have dual/multiple citizenship when you are taking that oath, you will be charged for false declaration under oath in Singapore court. But this doesn't mean that the Constitution allows or accept you to hold dual/multiple citizenship when you are under the age of 21.

My few simple questions to ICA is just to see whether they are acting constitutionally or not. Apparently, Dr Yaacoob's reasoning is totally flawed. He must explained how his children ended up with dual citizenship when our Singapore Constitution has clearly stated that his children will not be eligible for citizenship by descend if they have acquired citizenship of the country of birth.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Checker]

There many many cases where children have dual citizenship where a parent is Singaporean and another is another nationality, regardless of what the constitution quoted says. Suspect there're more amendments further down eg including mothers etc.

No question NS needs to be served here. But, as long as mother is US citizen, US immigration laws are such that she can sponsor the entire family's green card/ permanent residence at any future time. After 3 years, they can, theoretically, all become US citizens.

 

[steffychun]

Born in America means American, (not that I'm defending Yaccob). If not how would Obama become President?

 

[Papsmearer]

Show me the law that states that you cannot hold more 2 citizenship. Most people assume there is such a law.There is no such law. There never has been any such law.

</dl>

Are u so fucking lazy now that I have to do everything for you? No such law my ass.



Constitution of the Republic of Singapore.................

Deprivation of citizenship on acquisition of foreign citizenship
134. —(1) The Government may, by order, deprive a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship if the Government is satisfied that —

(a) he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 acquired by registration, naturalisation or other voluntary and formal act (other than marriage) the citizenship of any country outside Singapore or having so acquired such citizenship before the age of 18 years continues to retain it after that age; or

(b) the citizen, being a woman who is a citizen of Singapore by registration under Article 123 (2), has acquired the citizenship of any country outside Singapore by virtue of her marriage to a person who is not a citizen of Singapore.

(2) Where the Government has made an order under this Article depriving a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship, he shall cease to be a citizen with effect from the date of the order.

Deprivation of citizenship on exercise of rights of foreign nationals, etc.
135. —(1) The Government may, by order, deprive a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship if the Government is satisfied that —

(a) he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 voluntarily claimed and exercised any rights (other than any rights in connection with the use of a passport) available to him under the law of any country outside Singapore being rights accorded exclusively to the citizens or nationals of that country;

(b) he has, while of or over the age of 18 years, at any time after 6th April 1960 applied to the authorities of a place outside Singapore for the issue or renewal of a passport or used a passport issued by such authorities as a travel document; or

(c) he is of or over the age of 18 years and has, whether before or after attaining the age of 18 years, been ordinarily resident outside Singapore for a continuous period of 10 years (including any period of residence outside Singapore before 2nd January 1986) and has not at any time —

(i) during that period or thereafter entered Singapore by virtue of a certificate of status or travel document issued by the competent authorities of Singapore; or

(ii) during that period been in the service of the Government or of an international organisation of which Singapore is a member or of such other body or organisation as the President may, by notification in the Gazette, designate.

(2) For the purposes of clause (1) (a), the exercise of a vote in any political election in a place outside Singapore shall be deemed to be the voluntary claim and exercise of a right available under the law of that place.

(3) Where the Government has made an order under this Article depriving a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship, he shall cease to be a citizen with effect from the date of the order

 

[eatshitndie]

Constitution of the Republic of Singapore.................

Deprivation of citizenship on acquisition of foreign citizenship
134. —(1) The Government may, by order, deprive a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship if the Government is satisfied that —.........

Deprivation of citizenship on exercise of rights of foreign nationals, etc.
135. —(1) The Government may, by order, deprive a citizen of Singapore of his citizenship if the Government is satisfied that.....

the operative word is "may" which means the government has every flexibility and power to use its discretion. it is not "must", and so whoever and whichever party is in charge makes the final call on the law. the sg constitution does not mandate the automatic removal of one's dual citizenship status by virtue of stripping his or her sg citizenship. it leaves the discretion and that power alone to the government to decide on a case by case basis. and if the gov decides that ho chi minh can hold both vietnamese and sinkie citizenships, it is perfectly legit within the sg constitution. as i have pointed before, it has quadruple or multiple standards depending on who you are.

 

[cass888]

Stupid Ah Seng. Stop being stupid. No wonder Low Thia Khiang sacked you. If you were not such an imbecile, you may have been MP for Aljunied GRC by now.

It's been established that Yaccob's children were born in Singapore. So they were citizens by birth. If they also acquire US citizenship by virtue of their mother's citizenship (by the way, registering, getting passport etc are just steps enforcing their right to citizenship), the constitutional provisions you cited DO NOT APPLY. And if the mother wants to register them, she has as much right as her Minister husband. You want him to be a lousy husband like you, maybe even whack her or threaten to be infilial like you just to secure his ministership is it?

Stop being an imbecile. No wonder Tan Kin Lian got only 5%. It is idiots like you.

The following is taken from Singapore Constitution on Citizenship:

(2) A person born outside Singapore shall not be a citizen of Singapore by descent by virtue of clause (1) unless —

(a) his birth is registered in the prescribed manner at the Registry of Citizens or at a diplomatic or consular mission of Singapore within one year, or such longer period as the Government permits, after its occurrence; and

(b) he would not acquire the citizenship of the country in which he was born by reason of his birth in that country where —

(i) in the case of a person born before the date of commencement of section 7 of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Act 2004, his father is a citizen of Singapore by registration at the time of his birth; or

(ii) in the case of a person born on or after the date of commencement of section 7 of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Act 2004, either his father or mother is a citizen of Singapore by registration at the time of his birth.

This clause basically says that one who is born overseas shall not be eligible to Citizenship by Descend UNLESS he did not acquire the citizenship of the country of birth and provided that if he is born before 2004, his father must be Singapore Citizen OR if he is born AFTER 2004 (the year they amend the Constitution) either his father or mother is a Singapore citizen.

The spirit of the Singapore Constitution in disallowing Dual Citizenship is embedded here, practically states that no one, even from birth, should hold dual citizenship. i.e. If you acquire the citizenship of the country of birth (which is foreign), then you are NOT eligible for Singapore citizenship by descend.

Taking of oath for those who are born in foreign lands at the age of 21 is a just a formality, at the age of legality, to make sure you that you do not hold dual/multiple citizenship. If you have dual/multiple citizenship when you are taking that oath, you will be charged for false declaration under oath in Singapore court. But this doesn't mean that the Constitution allows or accept you to hold dual/multiple citizenship when you are under the age of 21.

My few simple questions to ICA is just to see whether they are acting constitutionally or not. Apparently, Dr Yaacoob's reasoning is totally flawed. He must explained how his children ended up with dual citizenship when our Singapore Constitution has clearly stated that his children will not be eligible for citizenship by descend if they have acquired citizenship of the country of birth.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Papsmearer]

the operative word is "may" which means the government has every flexibility and power to use its discretion. it is not "must", and so whoever and whichever party is in charge makes the final call on the law. the sg constitution does not mandate the automatic removal of one's dual citizenship status by virtue of stripping his or her sg citizenship. it leaves the discretion and that power alone to the government to decide on a case by case basis. and if the gov decides that ho chi minh can hold both vietnamese and sinkie citizenships, it is perfectly legit within the sg constitution. as i have pointed before, it has quadruple or multiple standards depending on who you are.

Are u sure u are from singapore? U seem to have a poor understanding of how the PAP works. For 99% of Sinkies, "may" is a definite "will". It all depends on whether u are an elite, peasant, FT, etc. If you are an oppo for sure it will be a "must", and they will most certainly deprive u of your citizenhip. For an elite, the "may" is a "no, we will not".