Tan Jee Say and Tan Cheng Bock in Talks

[scroobal]

$48K is a lot, unless you have public donations. My sense is that 3 of these chaps are rational by nature so there has to be a plan. Take Chiam for example. He and his wife worked real hard but at the last moment stepped away after a chat with JBJ over Anson. People applauded. It has nothing to do with JBJ's brand of politics but the area and the desire to topple PAP made sense to him.

What is emerging and highlighted by someone in this thread is that TCB can bite into the PAP natural base quite effectively but TJS. If they were operating and appealing to the same audience it would a much easier decision. That might be deciding factor to let all to remain in the fight to erode TT's share of the vote.

Not sure if COE is such a catch by itself.

At the end of the day I don't think any one of them will step away, even if they talk. Getting the COE is the highest political honour in the land and I am sure it will tickle the egos of all. The only reason it will happen is the fear of losing deposit, but all four are rich and not afraid. Such avoidance of multi corners will happen only in the GE, where many opposition candidates would find $16000 a lot of money to lose.

 

[scroobal]

Can you imagine if TJS concedes and throws his weight behind TCB and gets his supporters behind TCB. It will be quite powerful and a serious challenge.

I share the same sentiments. The only way Singaporeans have hope is to galvanise all opposition votes into Tan Cheng Bock. Tan Jee Say no matter how strong the opposition or internet support is, cannot possibly win the PE. I think if he is realistic, he will know it. The only hope is to put his weight to support Tan Cheng Bock... hmm... this sounds like the American Presidential elections... gonna lose already, say you lose first then save your respect... and align with the winner!

 

[scroobal]

This is going to an exciting PE for the great unknown. I agree that TJS does not appeal to grassroots PAP supporters.

Yup, it will show the PAP grassroots is in a rebellious mood. TCB vs TT will show it even sharper. However, if TT struggles in with <50%, you, we, us and TCB, TJS would regret the lost opportunity. TJS vs TT, don't think TJS will get sympathy from PAP grassroots.

 

[scroobal]

Agree with your summary.

TCB entered the race to ensure there is no walkover. He succeed.

TJS entered coz he wanted to raise the profile of "Alternative" voices. He did and surprised everyone (including himself, I think) with him getting COE.

No comment on TKL.

Having achieved what they set out to do, will they come to some kind of agreement, for the good of Singaporeans?

 

[scroobal]

I am with you. The ball is with TJS to make the difference.

I prefer TCB to stay in the race than TJS for the following reasons:

1. TCB will have a better chance because he will take away some pap votes especially from the older less welloff.

2. Hope TJS will stand in GE 2016. If he becomes president, chances are almost zero. If he runs for president, also unlikely he will run in 2016.

 

[mei mei]

Can you imagine if TJS concedes and throws his weight behind TCB and gets his supporters behind TCB. It will be quite powerful and a serious challenge.

It doesn't makes sense. Why would TJS work so hard to get the COE and then withdraw? I don't think he is that free, he did spent a lot of time, composing those letters, speeches, making videos, setting up websites etc etc, all that effort and then make a pact with TCB and withdraw from the race?? TJS has nothing better to do???

 

[Varuna]

I prefer TCB to stay in the race than TJS for the following reasons:

1. TCB will have a better chance because he will take away some pap votes especially from the older less welloff.

2. Hope TJS will stand in GE 2016. If he becomes president, chances are almost zero. If he runs for president, also unlikely he will run in 2016.

Yep. TJS is like a new star and needs to do ground work to connect with the people. It takes time. The timing for him may not be ripe this run. I'd rather TCB go for a shot. Interestingly TKL in today's ST mentioned he might consider withdrawing although it is not definite. If I did not read wrongly, it was under "some people's advice or suggestion" AGAIN!!!

 

[MightyMouse]

It doesn't makes sense. Why would TJS work so hard to get the COE and then withdraw? I don't think he is that free, he did spent a lot of time, composing those letters, speeches, making videos, setting up websites etc etc, all that effort and then make a pact with TCB and withdraw from the race?? TJS has nothing better to do???

Because he wasn't expecting to get the COE. Anyone reading the constitution without any bias will come to the conclusion that TJS do not qualify, including TJS himself. He made use of this EP process to raise his personal profile which is an astute move. The government, knowing the ground sentiments is now making use of TJS to dilute the votes for TCB. They would not have issued the COE if they think that he is capable of winning TT in a 3 corner fight since it's a given that Dr TCB will not withdraw from the contest. The government probably have a reasonable accurate statistical model of the likely vote pattern and making full use of that information to it's advantage. TJS will look very foolish if he persists and becomes the instrument that the government uses to defeat Dr TCB.

 

[Varuna]

Because he wasn't expecting to get the COE. Anyone reading the constitution without any bias will come to the conclusion that TJS do not qualify, including TJS himself. He made use of this EP process to raise his personal profile which is an astute move. The government, knowing the ground sentiments is now making use of TJS to dilute the votes for TCB. They would not have issued the COE if they think that he is capable of winning TT in a 3 corner fight since it's a given that Dr TCB will not withdraw from the contest. The government probably have a reasonable accurate statistical model of the likely vote pattern and making full use of that information to it's advantage. TJS will look very foolish if he persists and becomes the instrument that the government uses to defeat Dr TCB.

Agree. TJS should be smart enough to know the odds of winning the seat is low, and not to mention, the risk of losing $48K is not a trivial matter. To make it plain and simple, his COE is part of a bigger plan to help TT secure a win.

 

[mei mei]

Because he wasn't expecting to get the COE. Anyone reading the constitution without any bias will come to the conclusion that TJS do not qualify, including TJS himself. He made use of this EP process to raise his personal profile which is an astute move. The government, knowing the ground sentiments is now making use of TJS to dilute the votes for TCB. They would not have issued the COE if they think that he is capable of winning TT in a 3 corner fight since it's a given that Dr TCB will not withdraw from the contest. The government probably have a reasonable accurate statistical model of the likely vote pattern and making full use of that information to it's advantage. TJS will look very foolish if he persists and becomes the instrument that the government uses to defeat Dr TCB.

Good analysis. Your pov sounds logical and valid. My pov is there are many other ways to raise profile, in fact, by contesting in the GRC in the recent election, TJS already has a profile. He don't need to take this step to raise more profile. If TJS has submmitted an incomplete application like that private tutor, then I would 100% take your view that he only want to raise profile. But I see TJS put in big effort in applying for the COE, his letter of intent, speeches he made all showed seriousness in contesting. I think he will contest the presidency. To withdraw would show lack of judgement in him, how would people vote for a person lacking in judgement in 2016?

This is once in a life time opportunity for him, not everyone can apply for a COE, JBJ would never have thought he can win, that Thai woman never think she can be PM, a lot of people writing off TJS, maybe TJS can be our next president after all. We will find out later this week on TJS intent.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

TJS will never win the PE whether there is 1, 2 or 3 other candidates against TT. If it was only him against TT, TSJ will garner no more than 40%.

IF TSJ joins forces with TCB there may not be a nett gain because some PAPies who supported TCB will be turned off by TSJ joining forces with TCB. The question is the net gain or loss should TSJ join or endorse TCB and leave the scene. Honestly, I dont like TSJ, he took too long to join forces with an alternative party for GE2011. If he was sincere he would have joined much earlier. There should be a huge question mark on his delay in joining the fray for GE2011.

THis PE would have been better if it was TCB against TT. TCB would have much better chance of beating TT, one on one.

What is disappointing is that none of the EP candidates have come out for Singaporeans. It's all talk but no action and worse yet no direction.

If they want a Singaporean First plan then they should look at the Free Trade Agreements between Singapore and CHina, India and Philippines that have allowed over a million of these people to workand reside here thus making fewer jobs available for Singaporeans, and stifling public services for native Singaporeans.

A decent candidate would have announced that a thorough look at the immigration polices starting from the Trade Agreements is in order. Then a thorough look into the qualification of cabinet ministers and the ministries that they oversee. What kind of experience do these ministers have to oversee their respective ministries? Why are ministers playing musical chairs from one GE to the next, from one ministry to the next. This leads to a lack of accountability but worse yet, were these ministers even capable and experienced to lead their ministries?\

The EP candidates should go for the jugular and ask these relevant and important questions NOW while they have the media spotlight. Either these relevant questions are not important to them and if they are not important then we should wonder what it is that is important to these candidates? I can see two egomaniacs, one puppet and one sincere individual in the group of candidates for the PE2011.

I will be very surprised if any one of the four leaves the scene. The two egomaniacs will be basking in the limelight and taking in all the cheap glory for the time that they are allowed. At the end of the day, Singaporeans are again on the losing end when it comes to politics.

To win this race TCB has really got to up the ante and go for the jugular and ask totally relevant questions and promise the people that he will look into these issues thoroughly if elected. If TCB goes along for the fight as he has been doing then the winner is going to be TT with perhaps a winning percentage less than 50% but the PAPies are thick-skinned people and will feel no sense of loss if TT were to win even with less than 40% of the votes. These people are shameless and shameful and they are used to winning on the dirty through any means possible. Therefore winning by 40% is a win to them. They dont care if the have to give money to win votes or apply gerrymandering tactics or have full use of the mainstream media.

TCB has to up the ante and stop being a nice guy. He will get to nothing and those sitting on the fences know that. If TCB really wants to make a difference then he has to harness the anger and pain of the majority of Singaporeans who are against mass import of FTs and the cost of living and the control that the PAP has over the economy and society. TCB really has to do it sooner rather than later.

 

[mei mei]

Interestingly TKL in today's ST mentioned he might consider withdrawing although it is not definite. If I did not read wrongly, it was under "some people's advice or suggestion" AGAIN!!!

Tan Kin Lian says he is prepared to be 'flexible'

Presidential candidate Tan Kin Lian on Saturday refuted talk that he might bow out of the elections, but maintained that he is prepared to be 'flexible' if the situation calls for it.

'The chance of my stepping down is very small. I am just saying that nothing is cast in stone,' he said.

'But if all the parties interested are willing to sit down, have an open mind, we can discuss what is good for the country.'

The former NTUC Income chief was responding to The Straits Times, which on Saturday published a report saying he was considering stepping out of the contest to avoid diluting the share of 'non-establishment' voters.

He said the likelihood of a four-cornered fight remains high since none of the other candidates appear to want to withdraw from the race.

Mr Tan, 63, was speaking at the sidelines of a morning walkabout at Ghim Moh Market, where he was accompanied by his wife Mdm Zhen Siew Fong, 55, and supporters.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Yingluck SHinawatra was leading all polls from the time she announced herself as a candidate. TSJ was never even close if we can look at Yahoo's online poll as an indication. TSJ and TKL should just fuck off and let it be a TCB versus TT race.

 

[scroobal]

Thanks, you summed it up very well.

Because he wasn't expecting to get the COE. Anyone reading the constitution without any bias will come to the conclusion that TJS do not qualify, including TJS himself. He made use of this EP process to raise his personal profile which is an astute move. The government, knowing the ground sentiments is now making use of TJS to dilute the votes for TCB. They would not have issued the COE if they think that he is capable of winning TT in a 3 corner fight since it's a given that Dr TCB will not withdraw from the contest. The government probably have a reasonable accurate statistical model of the likely vote pattern and making full use of that information to it's advantage. TJS will look very foolish if he persists and becomes the instrument that the government uses to defeat Dr TCB.

 

[scroobal]

Mighty mouse had said it very well. In politics, profile is the key and every opportunity must be grabbed. The PE is excellent as this Govt does not allow politics to take place anywhere else or at anytime.

Some of us suspect that TJS needs to exit SDP to allow him the freedom to get the best model to fight the next GE and he is a serious contender. The PE requires one not be with a political party. He has been close to SDP bright new stars then SDP. We also won't be surprised that he forms a new party with his ideal set of candidates.By the way TCB and TJS are close. Very close. This was when he was PPS.

It doesn't makes sense. Why would TJS work so hard to get the COE and then withdraw? I don't think he is that free, he did spent a lot of time, composing those letters, speeches, making videos, setting up websites etc etc, all that effort and then make a pact with TCB and withdraw from the race?? TJS has nothing better to do???

 

[Papsmearer]

I share the same sentiments. The only way Singaporeans have hope is to galvanise all opposition votes into Tan Cheng Bock. Tan Jee Say no matter how strong the opposition or internet support is, cannot possibly win the PE. I think if he is realistic, he will know it. The only hope is to put his weight to support Tan Cheng Bock... hmm... this sounds like the American Presidential elections... gonna lose already, say you lose first then save your respect... and align with the winner!

To me TCB is close to be a TT(b) model. This guy was totally entrenched with the PAP for a long time and he is a rich man with their help. For crying out loud, he was an MP for 26 years. To me, voting for TCB is also the same as voting for the PAP.

 

[scroobal]

Agree with a number of your points. They should not contest this along Shanmugam's conceived boundaries, but up the ante as you have pointed out. TCB better start moving quickly.

TCB has to up the ante and stop being a nice guy. He will get to nothing and those sitting on the fences know that. If TCB really wants to make a difference then he has to harness the anger and pain of the majority of Singaporeans who are against mass import of FTs and the cost of living and the control that the PAP has over the economy and society. TCB really has to do it sooner rather than later.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

To me TCB is close to be a TT(b) model. This guy was totally entrenched with the PAP for a long time and he is a rich man with their help. For crying out loud, he was an MP for 26 years. To me, voting for TCB is also the same as voting for the PAP.

You are a running dog with a brain the size of the tip of a baby's hair. TCB ran a very decent clinic. Please elaborate how TCB enriched himself while with the PAP.

 

[HTOLAS]

I would disagree with you here. I've met both TCB (as a patient) and TT (as an NSMan as well as in discussion fora). TCB always came across as warm, caring and interested. And it was not confined to medical matters. He'd also try to seek feedback on matters of concern when he felt I was not too ill to respond - I saw him for the usual flu, food poisoning, etc. I actually once told him that I was a default opposition voter and that I hope he'd not run in my constituency because I'd then have difficulty deciding. He laughed but also seemed to realize there was a very serious side to what I had said.

TT on the other hand was cold and could not engage me, except intellectually. And he was superbly intelligent. His presence also did not provide reassurance or comfort. To me, he'd never be able to help to foster diplomatic ties with other countries, or create a emotional bond to unite a country in times of crisis. And because he was /is so close to the GIC, he would never do the other task, i.e., be its 'auditor'.

To me TCB is close to be a TT(b) model. This guy was totally entrenched with the PAP for a long time and he is a rich man with their help. For crying out loud, he was an MP for 26 years. To me, voting for TCB is also the same as voting for the PAP.

 

[Papsmearer]

TJS will never win the PE whether there is 1, 2 or 3 other candidates against TT. If it was only him against TT, TSJ will garner no more than 40%.

IF TSJ joins forces with TCB there may not be a nett gain because some PAPies who supported TCB will be turned off by TSJ joining forces with TCB. The question is the net gain or loss should TSJ join or endorse TCB and leave the scene. Honestly, I dont like TSJ, he took too long to join forces with an alternative party for GE2011. If he was sincere he would have joined much earlier. There should be a huge question mark on his delay in joining the fray for GE2011.

THis PE would have been better if it was TCB against TT. TCB would have much better chance of beating TT, one on one.

What is disappointing is that none of the EP candidates have come out for Singaporeans. It's all talk but no action and worse yet no direction.

If they want a Singaporean First plan then they should look at the Free Trade Agreements between Singapore and CHina, India and Philippines that have allowed over a million of these people to workand reside here thus making fewer jobs available for Singaporeans, and stifling public services for native Singaporeans.

A decent candidate would have announced that a thorough look at the immigration polices starting from the Trade Agreements is in order. Then a thorough look into the qualification of cabinet ministers and the ministries that they oversee. What kind of experience do these ministers have to oversee their respective ministries? Why are ministers playing musical chairs from one GE to the next, from one ministry to the next. This leads to a lack of accountability but worse yet, were these ministers even capable and experienced to lead their ministries?\

The EP candidates should go for the jugular and ask these relevant and important questions NOW while they have the media spotlight. Either these relevant questions are not important to them and if they are not important then we should wonder what it is that is important to these candidates? I can see two egomaniacs, one puppet and one sincere individual in the group of candidates for the PE2011.

I will be very surprised if any one of the four leaves the scene. The two egomaniacs will be basking in the limelight and taking in all the cheap glory for the time that they are allowed. At the end of the day, Singaporeans are again on the losing end when it comes to politics.

To win this race TCB has really got to up the ante and go for the jugular and ask totally relevant questions and promise the people that he will look into these issues thoroughly if elected. If TCB goes along for the fight as he has been doing then the winner is going to be TT with perhaps a winning percentage less than 50% but the PAPies are thick-skinned people and will feel no sense of loss if TT were to win even with less than 40% of the votes. These people are shameless and shameful and they are used to winning on the dirty through any means possible. Therefore winning by 40% is a win to them. They dont care if the have to give money to win votes or apply gerrymandering tactics or have full use of the mainstream media.

TCB has to up the ante and stop being a nice guy. He will get to nothing and those sitting on the fences know that. If TCB really wants to make a difference then he has to harness the anger and pain of the majority of Singaporeans who are against mass import of FTs and the cost of living and the control that the PAP has over the economy and society. TCB really has to do it sooner rather than later.

I think that as usual, you like many other sinkies are mixing facts and fantasy. While I agree that TSJ took too long to join an oppo and fight in the GE, and I don't approve of that, TCB is not better. He did not even join any oppo and did not even stand in the last GE. This guy was a PAP MP and insider for 26 years, GCT's classmate at RI, etc. Imagine he can expose so many skeletons in the PAP closets if he wanted to in the last GE. I can tell u this guy is driven simply by money. The lure of the President's $4 million salary is too much for him to ignore. I think the people will recognize him for what he is, more of the same old PAP shit. I think it will go down to TKL or TJS versus TT. TKL has many things going for him including his humble background from a less privilege family. TT and TCB were esentially born with silver spoons in their mouths.

Looking at trade agreements and immigration policies is not within the authority of the President. Also looking into the qualifications of the ministers is also not in the job description of the president. In order to make any sort of changes, the president must use his powers in an indirect way. For example, future minister appointments must be approved by him. At this time, he can than question the qualifications of the proposed ministers if he wants to do so, and even reject the minister. Regarding the immigration policies and what not, the president can indirectly impact these policies by vetoing the budgets for the relevant orgs. associated with these ministries. He may not be able to change anything, but he can make it very uncomfortable for the PAP. for example, he can veto the HDB budget by saying that it provides too much subsidised flats to FTs, and not enough benefits to Sinkies. The govt. may or may not change its immigration policy to satisfy him or face a public outcry and annual budget vetos for every year he is in power. What it will do is it will embarass the PAP in a very public way when his reasons for the veto are gazetted.