Rabid anti-SDP sentiment in SBF

[OverTheCounter]

You're wrong. I've obtained the satisfaction of speaking my mind here, even if people don't agree with me.

Depression is a form of sickness. You are depressed that for all that SDP has done, they are not getting much recognition and instead getting slammed from all corners. You should stay in that small hole with that bunch of SDP supporters who spread the gospel within that tiny hole. That would be your daily medication. If you come to this place and you feel so unhappy over all these "injustice" that SDP has been getting not only in the real world but also the net world, I don't see the point. Unless trying to win over an argument makes you happy. Then I think quite a few people would entertain you over it and that's just about it, nothing more.

 

[Dreamer1]

WP IB was very active in the old SBF, silencing critics by the banning of nicks and by exposing identities.

Those from old SBF in 2007/2008 will remember the nick PeasantJUDGE. He was a WP IB, and is still active in 3in1kopitiam. Just to give u an example, he once wrote to another anonymous nick, saying he has the means to uncover his real ID, track that person down to his workplace, and "deliver" something there.

That is the kind of behaviour that was rampant in the WP IB. I have long memory. I don't forget that easily what has happened.

Fortunately, in the new forum they seem to quiet down. Maybe Leongsam took action to get rid of all these pesks. However I suspect some of the shit stirrers here are not all PAP, some are in fact opposition who are jealous of other opposition.

Isn't that kind of silly?? Jealousy? Go take care of your own party first rather than being jealous of another!

"Over the counter",thanks for yr kind reply.

Yes,I do remember PeasantJUDGE as a kind & rather objective forummer,old forum I only remmeber GMS and his loud mouth,when I read his first post,straight I put him on IGNORE list,once he quoted me & tot he had my support,I replied that GMS long long on ignore list by me liao.

I read Sammy,but I do not form the opinion that WP IB are active here,may be some WP supporters here,yes but they do not operate as IB like PAP does,in fact,I remember LTK issed an order to stop participating in internet forum and caused GMS & others to depart,and I agree with SDP that that was a mistake.

As an opposition voter,I note that issues pointed out by some sincere forummers wrt SDP.and it would be better is SDP can consider them and improve,that is my hope,I do not give up on SDP,except GMS who I have gievn up as CMI.

 

[Dreamer1]

OVER THE COUNTER

Good things would be appreciated by others,so do not BE WORRIED.SIR!

For example,I still remember vividly how Dr chee coined WORLD CLASS PROPAGANDA MACHINE to describe the PAP propaganda warfare,and many other quotable quotes.

So pl be at ease and go fight the real enemies.

 

[cleareyes]

I just want to address one point - alternative budget. SDP has yet to release it and yet some nicks here are slamming it like it was the Black Plague or something worse. What kind of cynicism is that?

Some forummers here have placed SDP in a "damned if u do, damned if u don't" situation. If SDP just criticise the budget after it is released, people will say SDP only oppose for sake of opposing.

So SDP must have an alternative to show they have solutions to nation's problems. But now people slam SDP for being a joke, for damaging opposition, and for coming with alternative to sweetener.

You seem not to understand how the voting ground works and it seems that SDP in general is clueless as well.

Who could issue a national budget statement? In reality, only the ruling goverment can do that. Anyone doing so would have to show how revenue can be earned to cover whatever needs to be spend.

Does SDP have the capablity to do any of that? NONE.

When news of SDP intent to release an alternative budget, the question from everyone's midn is; how is this budget goiong to be funded? PAP had so far able tro do so. How about SDP? Does SDP have the figures at hand?

The saying goes: before you learn to run, learn how to walk first. SDP had been incapable even to crawl much of the time because of its own incapablity and now it wants to fly, doesnt that make SDP quite a joke? and worse of all, the general public still lump SDP with the rest of the opposition parties ancd PA has the tendency to do that all the time. If this budget turn out to be full of holes, what would be for the rest of the other parties?

I would say SDP is been very very irresponsible in this aspect of dragging others down with them when they have been quite a shit stirrrer.

So gon think very very hard about what antics SDP had been putting up. have they been useful for the oppsoition, so far none.

You want constructive? Why cant SDP be constructive andf stop been destructive. How's that?

 

[talkincock]

...

You took so long to reply to TS? Or you had to browse through your PAP textbook first? Or you need to consult someone first? I saw you viewing this thread when OTC started it yesterday.

 

[scroobal]

There were more WP supporters in the old forum simply because it was not old established party with JBJ and LTK having seats. There were also SPP supporters. There were no overt attack on SDP but there were criticism of the methods. It was not confined to WP supporters.

Then alone came Ptader and his relentless attacks on WP and the gang of 4 jumped in and the banning of others who were critical of SDP occurred. You obviously remembered they paid for membership and thus the request for banning was quite effective. Remember Robox who was an ardent SDP follower and the damage he did.

In this forum, there is no Walt Howe and there is no membership. Notice how Ptader and the F4 became ultra quiet.

You need to understand that what is good for gander is good for the goose.

WP IB was very active in the old SBF, silencing critics by the banning of nicks and by exposing identities.

Those from old SBF in 2007/2008 will remember the nick PeasantJUDGE. He was a WP IB, and is still active in 3in1kopitiam. Just to give u an example, he once wrote to another anonymous nick, saying he has the means to uncover his real ID, track that person down to his workplace, and "deliver" something there.

That is the kind of behaviour that was rampant in the WP IB. I have long memory. I don't forget that easily what has happened.

Fortunately, in the new forum they seem to quiet down. Maybe Leongsam took action to get rid of all these pesks. However I suspect some of the shit stirrers here are not all PAP, some are in fact opposition who are jealous of other opposition.

Isn't that kind of silly?? Jealousy? Go take care of your own party first rather than being jealous of another!

 

[scroobal]

Here we go again!

You took so long to reply to TS? Or you had to browse through your PAP textbook first? Or you need to consult someone first? I saw you viewing this thread when OTC started it yesterday.

 

[Dreamer1]

You seem not to understand how the voting ground works and it seems that SDP in general is clueless as well.

Who could issue a national budget statement? In reality, only the ruling goverment can do that. Anyone doing so would have to show how revenue can be earned to cover whatever needs to be spend.

Does SDP have the capablity to do any of that? NONE.

When news of SDP intent to release an alternative budget, the question from everyone's midn is; how is this budget goiong to be funded? PAP had so far able tro do so. How about SDP? Does SDP have the figures at hand?

The saying goes: before you learn to run, learn how to walk first. SDP had been incapable even to crawl much of the time because of its own incapablity and now it wants to fly, doesnt that make SDP quite a joke? and worse of all, the general public still lump SDP with the rest of the opposition parties ancd PA has the tendency to do that all the time. If this budget turn out to be full of holes, what would be for the rest of the other parties?

I would say SDP is been very very irresponsible in this aspect of dragging others down with them when they have been quite a shit stirrrer.

So gon think very very hard about what antics SDP had been putting up. have they been useful for the oppsoition, so far none.

You want constructive? Why cant SDP be constructive andf stop been destructive. How's that?

I seem to remember before the emergence of RP,it was SDP,as the only opposition political party which outlined its economic policy,wasnt it?

Personnly I think no harm to read SDP alternative budget,who knows what they can come out with,I am very keen to watch the standard of SDP new entrants!

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear OTC

Such is my level of current disgust with the PAP that I would rather vote for the SDP in Holland Bukit then spoil my vote. In 2006 I believe I would have spoiled my vote instead.

Many of us who have commentated and analyzed the SDP have been perplexed and baffled as to their thinking and actions even as they have done some things correctly.

Perspective for one though disagreeing on the A Budget will agree on their abiity to generate well written and well presented collaterals on online and offline.

I for one would reserve judgement on the A budget and the 20,000 successs but agree on how well their marketing is being done and despair at that god awful bear.

Its wide and varied, the criticisms well intentioned and generally most people to find something good to comment on. However if you rate the 20,000 and AB so strongly and highly and can't take criticism of it so badly then I am afraid you have lost your well perspective.




Locke

 

[scroobal]

Looks like people generally are highly protective of their own turf and not surprising. I remember when I criticised Low, I was called dishonest. When I pointed out how the TOC was germinated, I was accused of re-writing history. When I pointed out TKL I was asked to get my perspective right. Interestingly when I criticised Chiam, no one said anything.

All parties have their detractors and their supporters. All of us know which side of our bread is buttered although some of us would like to butter both sides. We then have 2 clowns who have no idea what neutrality means and where they have gone wrong.

The reality is that this site and the old SBF forum are insignificant in the scheme of things. If you read hardware zone, you know that the majority really have no time for opposition. They are comment critically about the PAP but they will still vote for the PAP.

The best that parties likes SDP, WP and RP can do is to constantly engage the populace and get a foot in the door. WP, Chiam have done that. So has JBJ. Its the voters that count.

SDP has been an oddball. They take up the most attention in every sense but they can't seem to get the votes unlike the other parties. Even slipperman getting more votes was quite telling. My sense is that Chee has not got his model right. He is closer to the NGO model of civil agitation and may well be ahead of his time. He spends more time engaging the PAP than the voters.

One really interestingly thing about Chee is that his comments and criticism of the PAP and the Lees are spot on. I have seen emails from senior establishments figures supproting his views but they all agree he will not get votes. My sense is that all his comments are predicated not on the basis of getting votes but confronting the abuse and mismanagement by the PAP. Very much watchdog. Similar to Devan when he got thrown out. The voters I suspect do not want to get involved in this. They want to see how their interest are represented, not who is abusing what. If Chee gets a good tactician, this govt might be trouble in a big way. The other major issue with Chee is the clwons that he surrounds himself with. Lets face it Ghandi and John can't even get the cows to the milking shed. Wearing a Kangaroo T-shirt with 2 gullible malay boys is not going to cut the mustard. Sending impressionable malay and Indian muslims with an identity crisis to half baked political conferences overseas is wasted energy.

WP model of direct contact but low profile might be a model that might not last. Interestingly it now being perceived by many as a Chinese party than what Marshall or JBJ envisaged. Sylvia is still the best hope to reach out to the other races.Chiam will die with no succession, a personal legacy but no party legacy. RP model seem more robust in terms of managing the messaging internally but it seems too high brow. If I stop an Ah Soh going to the market, I am not sure if she knows or heard of RP. The best bet whether they like it or not is work on the link to JBJ.

 

[cleareyes]

You took so long to reply to TS? Or you had to browse through your PAP textbook first? Or you need to consult someone first? I saw you viewing this thread when OTC started it yesterday.

wow.....when did this forum had to operate through real time?

 

[Dreamer1]

Dear OTC

Such is my level of current disgust with the PAP that I would rather vote for the SDP in Holland Bukit then spoil my vote. In 2006 I believe I would have spoiled my vote instead.

Many of us who have commentated and analyzed the SDP have been perplexed and baffled as to their thinking and actions even as they have done some things correctly.

Perspective for one though disagreeing on the A Budget will agree on their abiity to generate well written and well presented collaterals on online and offline.

I for example would reserve judgement on the A bud and the 20,000 agree on how well their marketing is being done and despair at that god awful bear.

Its wide and varied the criticisms but generally most people to find something good to comment on. However if you rate the 20,000 and AB so strongly and highly and take can criticism of it so badly then I am afraid you have lost your well perspective




Locke

Dear Locke

I agree with you,but as people say:it is easier said than done.

 

[cleareyes]

Here we go again!

its the usual bullshit

i never know samleong had the rule stating that we have to reply real time, as if our lives depend on it.

 

[scroobal]

Both WP and SDP have outlined their respective economic policies but SDP one is better. Unfortunately it is drowned out by their action in the civil agitation space. KJ tend to get too deep in policies.

To the voter the alternative budget by the SDP is sky in the pie. More damaging to the image as it shows that they are reaching too high. Harbans Singh did the same with his shadow cabinet with named potential ministers.

People may recall that Chiam never attempted to put across any such things. He worked hard on housing and schools both dear to the heart of voters. These are zones of interest to the voters. Not alternative budget.

I seem to remember before the emergence of RP,it was SDP,as the only opposition political party which outlined its economic policy,wasnt it?

Personnly I think no harm to read SDP alternative budget,who knows what they can come out with,I am very keen to watch the standard of SDP new entrants!

 

[cleareyes]

I seem to remember before the emergence of RP,it was SDP,as the only opposition political party which outlined its economic policy,wasnt it?

Personnly I think no harm to read SDP alternative budget,who knows what they can come out with,I am very keen to watch the standard of SDP new entrants!

You call that an economic policy with no content, no substances and no backbone?????

best part: no logic?????

 

[Dreamer1]

There were more WP supporters in the old forum simply because it was not old established party with JBJ and LTK having seats. There were also SPP supporters. There were no overt attack on SDP but there were criticism of the methods. It was not confined to WP supporters.

Then alone came Ptader and his relentless attacks on WP and the gang of 4 jumped in and the banning of others who were critical of SDP occurred. You obviously remembered they paid for membership and thus the request for banning was quite effective. Remember Robox who was an ardent SDP follower and the damage he did.

In this forum, there is no Walt Howe and there is no membership. Notice how Ptader and the F4 became ultra quiet.

You need to understand that what is good for gander is good for the goose.

Scrooble,

I remember QXP was the first guy who punched WP/LTK,I think he ws also the one who started WAYANG PARTY.

By the time Ptader made his appearence and joined QXP,I already given up & didnt bother to read about Wayang Party.

 

[Dreamer1]

Both WP and SDP have outlined their respective economic policies but SDP one is better. Unfortunately it is drowned out by their action in the civil agitation space. KJ tend to get too deep in policies.

To the voter the alternative budget by the SDP is sky in the pie. More damaging to the image as it shows that they are reaching too high. Harbans Singh did the same with his shadow cabinet with named potential ministers.

People may recall that Chiam never attempted to put across any such things. He worked hard on housing and schools both dear to the heart of voters. These are zones of interest to the voters. Not alternative budget.

I believe that KJ is the man,with his double first in eco fr Cambridge.

There are many holes in the economic policy of PAP,except that it has never been targeted.

 

[Dreamer1]

Scroobal

"SDP has been an oddball. They take up the most attention in every sense but they can't seem to get the votes unlike the other parties. Even slipperman getting more votes was quite telling. My sense is that Chee has not got his model right. He is closer to the NGO model of civil agitation and may well be ahead of his time. He spends more time engaging the PAP than the voters. "

Truly that was my secret hope ,seeing that Dr Chee was unelectable or he was not interested,I was hoping for him to go into NGO,and yes,take away the burden of winning votes fr Ah Bengs and Ah Lians,DR CHee would definitely make a far greater contribution there.

But that ultimately would depend on what Dr Chee wants in his own life,

 

[scroobal]

Please don't give the impression that he resigned or retired or that his views were contrary to that of the Govt while he was in NTUC. He only resigned from PAP after being kicked out from NTUC and after a while. TKL did not resign he was booted out. He never ever made any comments expect constantly ask Teo and Goh why he is not an MP.

He got booted out because he could not grow the market outside the govt protected turf. It was the same with DBS.

We have to put the insurance issue into perspective. TKL ran NTUC Income on the ideals founded by GKS, i.e. insurance for the lower income group who're not prospecting targets for commerical agents interested in bigger policies and bigger premiums. If you check out the premium rates and bonus returns from the 1997 to 2007, no other company can beat NTUC Income under TKL. It wasn't a monopoly to army camps or civil service departments, all other insurance companies can arrange talks there too, but they wouldn't, because no point wasting marketing resources fight such cheaper policies. They'd rather charge higher premiums and payout lower bonuses in order to pay agents much higher commissions in open market where policy buyers lack thorough figures to compare. It's allowed too, since the government must allow commercial insurance companies and agents to remain profitable, part and parcel of running an economy. NTUC Income role as a co-operative was to prevent higher commercial premiums from getting too high. TKL was unceremoniously booted out since the government apparently doesn't believe in that anymore. Free market, any price goes, You pay, your business. You overpay, business. You die, your business.

 

[scroobal]

Yes, QXP put off many people by his comments and he was indeed a supporter of SDP. Ptader was articulate and ruthless. He was so feared that many people shut up especially those who identities were known.

Even now Ptader is feared. I remembered when he made a rare appearence, here recently using that moniker both Locke and Perspective rushed to welcome him. Both being WP supporters and had been hurt by his barbs and did not want to get on his offside. But the F4 adored him as he was the best weapon. Without him, no sign of them.

He still trying to figure who I am. First by sending PMs, asking to bury the hatchet, think that I was someone from SPH etc. He thinks that I am a low life.

He is still around using other nicks.

Scrooble,

I remember QXP was the first guy who punched WP/LTK,I think he ws also the one who started WAYANG PARTY.

By the time Ptader made his appearence and joined QXP,I already given up & didnt bother to read about Wayang Party.