WP at the Crossroads?

[Papsmearer]

WP buggers in parliament enjoy parliamentary privileges , so should lambast the PAP at every turn, throw rocks at them, ridicule them and make them squirm in their pants with difficult questions that will reveal the PAP's ignorance on and loss touch of the ground. Agree so many opportunities were let thru. When one watches the debates in UK parliament, one can get a sense of what we are missing and what we should deserve to get. That is what is meant by checks and balances. Sitting prettily does not cut it.

Listen to what HHH and Roy are asking. Surely the WP does not need an English professor to teach them?

Yep, all this talk about WP having a strategy for the way they do things is bullshit. No balls say so lah. I remember when they were removing Devan Nair, LKY waved his medical records in PArliament and called him a drunken wife beater. Imagine someone can show your personal medical file to everyone in parliament and call u a wife beater, AND GET AWAY WITH IT because of parliamentary privilege. And the WP is quiet as church mice when it comes to this.

 

[khunking]

If the incumbent can't solve your problem, don't expect a miracle from the opposition. Run if you have to.

 

[scroobal]

Nobody expects WP to run the government or solve the problems for the government. They are expected to represent their constituents in parliament. They surely must have residents that are impacted by the CPF such as low returns, unable to function as expected. They should be blasting the PAP in parliament. They should have chased the PM round and round on the CPF issue alone.

When you buy a faulty TV, do you complain or go make your own one. Of course you complain like hell. The PAP Government is the highest paid in the world.

Get the picture.

If the incumbent can't solve your problem, don't expect a miracle from the opposition. Run if you have to.

 

[Satyr]

If anyone had a clue how WP would evolve is to see what happened after GE2006 when GMS left the party over his internet engagement. It was not a style that suited LTK. LTK took over a party that could have been made bankrupt as result of 2 individuals. It was bitter and painful lesson. The curtains were drawn in and the battens closed.

WP also chose a style that was quite unique and reminiscent of the communist and left wing middle school approach where voters were approached in a quite and individual manner and the broom and buckets brought out. It showed that they were of the people and they spoke the same language. Many of us laughed at it especially in the early 90s and thought that SDP under Chiam had the winning formula. But it was WP that fashioned its own unique political style and it is now reaping results. Its a system that that PA and the grassroots could not emulate.

The only flaw with the system is that they looked naked in Parliament, lost for words and unable to capitalise on current issues. To remain relevant in Parliament, they certainly have to do more. It will take the edge from the growing criticisms. The votes is the start and parliament is when you deliver.

I expect them to continue to take seats from the PAP, something interestingly was acknowledged by one of SPH lead prostitutes. But there must be parallel movement in public discourse and performance in Parliament.

The WP is not going to telegraph their moves for sure. The biggest mistake they could make is to get involved with issues that Roy champions. The PAP will not attack Roy but attack the WP for everything Roy says. If Roy is for a higher return on the CPF who could be against it ? If the people are clamouring for it there's no need for the WP to jump on the bandwagon. They must do what is not being done in parliament. The fact is the majority voted for the PAP. Gradual increase of the minimum sum was known to everyone at the least election. It was not an election issue. The WP would b foolish to take this up. Let's say on the rare chance they form the next government, would they be able to increase the CPF interest rate ? By how much ? They don't know the answer to both questions. So best to keep quiet .

 

[xingguy]

Nobody expects WP to run the government or solve the problems for the government. They are expected to represent their constituents in parliament. They surely must have residents that are impacted by the CPF such as low returns, unable to function as expected. They should be blasting the PAP in parliament. They should have chased the PM round and round on the CPF issue alone.

When you buy a faulty TV, do you complain or go make your own one. Of course you complain like hell. The PAP Government is the highest paid in the world.

Get the picture.

Low Thia Khiang did brought this up in parliament, 7 years old.

You were the one that started this thread, 7 Years Ago - LTK / WP on CPF

So, what gives?

 

[scroobal]

Valid points. The PAP using WP for what Roy's does and says is certainly an issue and they have done it before. And as they have control over the mainstream media, they will couch the arguments their way.

My sense is that WP should take these opportunities to learn and craft their confrontational and inquisitorial skills. Start small but at least start.

They should also reciprocate for what bloggers have done for them when AIM came to the fore. Alex Au took a lot of heat for that and he is still paying the price.

The WP is not going to telegraph their moves for sure. The biggest mistake they could make is to get involved with issues that Roy champions. The PAP will not attack Roy but attack the WP for everything Roy says. If Roy is for a higher return on the CPF who could be against it ? If the people are clamouring for it there's no need for the WP to jump on the bandwagon. They must do what is not being done in parliament. The fact is the majority voted for the PAP. Gradual increase of the minimum sum was known to everyone at the least election. It was not an election issue. The WP would b foolish to take this up. Let's say on the rare chance they form the next government, would they be able to increase the CPF interest rate ? By how much ? They don't know the answer to both questions. So best to keep quiet .

 

[scroobal]

Yes, I know as I found it and brought to this forum's attention. So what changed in the 7 intervening years.

I suspect that they are preparing for the audit findings and do not want the PAP to have a field day. You can see that something is brewing in the PAP camp. Indranee Rajah does not get involved in gutter politics but she raised it so there must surely be a game plan.

Low Thia Khiang did brought this up in parliament, 7 years old.

You were the one that started this thread, 7 Years Ago - LTK / WP on CPF

So, what gives?

 

[mojito]

Suspect they simply dun have the financially literate folks they can trust to criticize the scheme. The best they can do is to ask on a superficial level and get canned response. Besides it is not shrewd to rattle the snake's den as they will be expected to take a stand, something best avoided. PAP can never prove WP is wrong, because WP does not state their views on how CPF should be managed. I am comfortable with their inaction. In fact, it is strategy. Some of my former colleagues are just like that, and they outlasted even the best of my generation.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Well, Scroobal, now you know how these WP people think? But I have to thank them for giving me so much credit of "getting 12% of votes" but the fact remains, NSP didn't win any seats even with that votes won.

MPship in WP's mentality, is just about local village heads, going around to be good PR managing the village. Nothing about National Policy Discourse, least about providing the necessary leadership in molding public opinions.

I have given up to talk to WP people over this and I will live and let live. Unless there is a leadership change in WP, I don't see how the current path taken by WP will change at all. Opposition politics will be more exciting and interesting if there is leadership change in WP. But that is just too distant a though now.


Goh Meng Seng

I give you a clue. WP MPs collect $16K a month each. It is not for running the town council. So what do you think the
monthly payment is for - winning a seat?

Sorry I have to be blunt as winning a seat from the PAP is not taken for granted. If WP after winning a seat, do not collect the $16K a month, I guarantee you that no one would complain. You do realise the role of an MP? It is not to attend MTP session either.

Lastly GMS does not collect $16K a month. Why should I waste my time with him.

Get the peekture?

 

[dr.wailing]

Why you think i want Old man out. It is for the exact same reason, collect money but no sound in parliament. Bloody disgrace.

Are those your true sentiments?

Tell you what: next year LHL and his ministars will pull out all the stops to deify (yes, you read it right) Old Fart.

Mere mortals can't fault deities, can they?

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

WP cannot continue to view itself as a small localized opposition party which does not need to address to National issues at National level and platform. That would set a limitation to its growth.

But if the current leadership still thinks it is the only best strategy for it, so be it. I am happy with such ultra-conservative position while watching other parties and activists make their own progress in this area. Let's see who can sustain and prevail in the long run.

Like I said in another thread, love WP or hate WP, WP's methods and cautious approach have worked so far. They are not viewed as a confrontational party. They don't carelessly leave open too many gateways where the media and other politicians can take frequent potshots at them. Remember the media is not at all free and is still very much a govt mouthpiece. Those are the limitations that WP has to deal with.

Should WP change? The day will certainly come when it has to. I just don't think that day is today. You can disagree with that, but as long as WP continues to win seats, you should also realize this question has no right or wrong answers AS YET.

Scroobal mentioned the history of WP almost getting bankrupted by two individuals. That is the historical reality that is still fresh in the minds of the leadership. It cannot be forgotten so quickly. As PM Lee said, only the paranoid survive. LTK's cautious approach is borne out of that mindset.

 

[dr.wailing]

Nobody expects WP to run the government or solve the problems for the government. They are expected to represent their constituents in parliament......

You are SO right.

It's so laughable that in Parliament, LHL and his ministars insist that the oppo MPs come up with ideas and solutions to their problems.

My European friends have been wondering: why are Sinkies so stupid? LHL and his ministars are paid to solve the city-state's problems and not the other way round.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I am really surprised to read what Kingrant is writing here.

But I will say, not only PAP needs to change, WP needs the change quite badly. This is already past the half way point since last GE2011. The whole problem of WP, from weak performance in Parliament to FMSS, all point to the need to change leadership. Without an overhaul of leadership, there will be no new vision, new direction and new way of tackling problems and performance in parliament.

I am personally impressed with Chen Shao Mao's way of conducting his MPS which is quite professionally done to increase efficiency using technology. Although I still think his parliamentary performance still fall short of expectation but I believe this man is no simple potato by simply looking at the way he organize his workflow. He should be able to bring in fresh ideas and new ways of conducting politics. I believe his hands are tied by the current WP leadership, from the simple observation that a man of his caliber, has not been appointed to any official position! Not in CEC or Town Council, even though he is practically a FULL TIME MP and politician! It is an obvious attempt to sideline him and tying his hands!

But I doubt the cadres will support a leadership change. From my interactions with some of the WP cadres, they are not favourable for a leadership change. So we will be stuck with a overly conservative leadership which will not grow the party nor make of progress of the party. I empathize Chen Shao Mao's current situation because that is exactly what I dislike before I quit WP. Politicians have to be given room for their grooming, in all aspects. Such tying of hands and legs of good talents will not do the party any good.

Goh Meng Seng

WP buggers in parliament enjoy parliamentary privileges , so should lambast the PAP at every turn, throw rocks at them, ridicule them and make them squirm in their pants with difficult questions that will reveal the PAP's ignorance on and loss touch of the ground. Agree so many opportunities were let thru. When one watches the debates in UK parliament, one can get a sense of what we are missing and what we should deserve to get. That is what is meant by checks and balances. Sitting prettily does not cut it.

Listen to what HHH and Roy are asking. Surely the WP does not need an English professor to teach them?

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

There is certainly a need to raise the bar where their parliamentary performance and general public engagement on topical issues are concerned.

Pritam, Sylvia should take up the slack that LTK leaves behind due to the fact that he is Mandarin speaking and cannot translate his thoughts well into English.

As for whether WP has earned their $16K, I say they have. WP speaks up more in Parliament on a per-MP basis compared to the PAP. There is no issue with both quantity and quality of speeches made. What needs improvement is being quick on the uptake when challenged and getting their wits together when the debate gets hot.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Aiyoh, nobody will force you to use English if you are more comfortable to use Chinese lah! That is not an excuse at all!

Goh Meng Seng

Pritam, Sylvia should take up the slack that LTK leaves behind due to the fact that he is Mandarin speaking and cannot translate his thoughts well into English.

As for whether WP has earned their $16K, I say they have. WP speaks up more in Parliament on a per-MP basis compared to the PAP. There is no issue with both quantity and quality of speeches made. What needs improvement is being quick on the uptake when challenged and getting their wits together when the debate gets hot.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Aiyoh, nobody will force you to use English if you are more comfortable to use Chinese lah! That is not an excuse at all!

Goh Meng Seng

When LHL is challenging you in English, you use Chinese?

 

[sleaguepunter]

With so many "opposition supporters", why pap still need to employ IBs?

Wahahaha.........

 

[PoliticalDialogue]

When LHL is challenging you in English, you use Chinese?

TFBH, you are right on that. It is not in keeping with etiquette to switch to a different language during an actual parliamentary exchange.
Indeed, imagine the artificial outcry that will issue from the hard left -- not the PAP, but the hard left -- if LTK did so.

The real threat to greater democracy in Singapore, and a further erosion of PAP's stranglehold on power, does not come from the PAP itself, but from the hard left.

 

[JHolmesJr]

Even a broken watch is right twice a day.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Why not? Why do you feel inferior in using Chinese? You will put him into defensive when you use Chinese! Never fight on your opponent's terms and turfs... strategy 101.


Goh Meng Seng

When LHL is challenging you in English, you use Chinese?