WP at the Crossroads?

[scroobal]

There have been some interesting posts buried in various threads about WP as result of Roy's event. Thought this thread should capture them

Papsmearer Papsmearer is online now

Default Do you notice something missing fronm this Roy Ngerng episode?
Where is the support for Roy from the opposition? I have yet to see any WP speak out in support for Roy and criticize the gay Loong's lawsuit. They can surely give him moral support, or verbal support, if not actual financial support, bit choose not to. Are they saying that they disagree with Roy's comments on the CPF (other than the misappropriation part)? Where do they stand on this? I am quite surprised to see WP completely ignoring this whole lawsuit on their website and in Parliament. At the very least, they can table a question as to whether the Prime Minister is using taxpayer money or his own money to pursue this legal action. After, all that is govt business to find out how govt. money is spend. Lets look at the WP senior members:

1) Pritam SIngh - a Practicing lawyer.
2) Chen SHow Mao- a lawyer.
3) Sylvia Lim - a senior partner at a law firm and a law lecturer

So many lawyers and not one of them has volunteered to help Roy? Roy himself estimates that his legal bills will be $70K. But non of these WP lawyers plan to provide some pro bono work for him? Same goes for all the other oppo parties. Its a fact that Roy's blog resonates with many singaporeans. i would have thought that being allied with Roy would at least raise their profile in a positive way. It really makes me thing that the WP is just a fake oppo.
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[scroobal]

PTADER

Default Re: Do you notice something missing fronm this Roy Ngerng episode?

Good that you are realising this and coming to the inevitable conclusion. My post below in another thread which will help shed some light.

After a tiring 15 hour flight, I managed to crawl out of my hotel bed and jet lag, to attend the CPF protest. I wanted to get a sense of the political mood in the country. I was struck and very impressed by the incredible courage shown, particularly by this young man and this petite girl. However, I wondered why all these were necessary when Singapore already had an opposition presence in Parliament. Their one simple role, if they lack the drive, courage or intelligence to do anything else useful, is to be the voices of the people. After all, this was Sylvia Lim's pompous declaration to Lianhe Zaobao on 06 May 2012 when she was asked about the WP's silence on the budget when other parties had spoken up:

“But we are in Parliament, they are not. We will make use of the platform we have.”

At the height of the AIM saga last year, I posted the article below.

The article can well serve as a template to this current situation by replacing "AIM" with "CPF".

My old WP colleagues and my views about Low, having known Low Thia Khiang for more than 34 years ago when he first joined the WP in 1982, and having uncovered and discovered his role, purpose and agenda, remains unchanged.

It will take time but Singaporeans will continue to, albeit very slowly, discover and realise that Low Thia Khiang, beyond the theatre he puts up during electioneering and the cheap theatrics in Parliament, is not who they think he is and that the Workers Party, having been infiltrated by the likes of Low and at least three other operatives, is not the Workers Party of old or the opposition party Singaporeans think it is.

The more perceptive and knowledgeable posters like Golden Dragon, who had access to intelligence, will know this and will know what I mean. In the meanwhile, beyond some cheap theatre, please be prepared for more "under-performance" and silence from Low and his ilk. There is a reason to this silence. And it is not for any noble reasons or sorry excuses that has been ascribed to it by the WP, its fans or the usual WP crowd.

***

What will the Workers Party do on 14 January 2013?

Will the WP Parliamentarians be silent, reticent and fearful and not raise this AIM issue in Parliament? And will they continue to rely on their Vellama modus operandi, i.e. remain silent and let ordinary citizens, netizens and bloggers do the work, carry out the heavy lifting and take the risks on their behalf (even as these WP MPs enjoy the privileges, perks and benefits of being a $16,041/month MP)?

With all that have been published by bloggers and netizens, it is to be expected and simply a matter of time before the incorrigible Dauphin and his merry men latched on to something and revert back to what his father, he and his lackeys do best, i.e. threaten to sue or sue. Old habits die hard.

Parliamentary privilege is a legal immunity enjoyed by all MPs, including those from the Workers Party. The purpose of Parliamentary privilege is to allow MPs to speak freely during ordinary Parliamentary proceedings without any fear of legal action. Non-elected politicians, bloggers, netizens and the ordinary man in the street do not enjoy such a privilege. Notwithstanding this lack of privilege, these non-elected politicians, bloggers, netizens and the ordinary man in the street have spoken up on many and varied issues. To their credit, they have done a lot of work. They have carried out the heavy lifting. And they have courageously taken the risks in doing so.

The AIM issue directly affects the WP. The WP has a presence of 6 MPs and 2 NCMPS in Parliament. It is for the WP Parliamentarians to raise and pursue the AIM issue in Parliament.

Voters have also voiced their concern about the AIM issue. Voters have voted the WP into Parliament for a reason. To be their voices. It is the one of the primary duties and responsibilities of being an elected member of a First World Parliament to voice the concerns of your constituents and the electorate in Parliament.

In order to get to the bottom of this AIM issue once and for all, it is incumbent on the WP to raise and pursue this matter in Parliament when Parliament sits on 14 January 2013. If it does not but instead, expects non-elected politicians, bloggers, netizens and the ordinary man in the street to continue to raise and pursue the matter outside of Parliament, it will merely prove, once and yet again, all that have been said by skeptics and critics about the Workers Party and the pusillanimous leadership of the Workers Party.
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[scroobal]

Goh Meng Seng


Default Re: Do you notice something missing fronm this Roy Ngerng episode?
Well, it doesn't matter if WP contributed to the CPF saga right now but it will definitely ride on the waves of such big issue. Just like what happens in GE2011, never mind if WP contributed to the robust debate of HDB but most importantly it has rode on the waves of HDB issues to win seats.

The important aim is for WP to win seats, riding on whatever waves or tsunami created by others. That may sound a bit opportunistic but that is alright with me. However, what is not alright with me is that WP people have been going around to sourly slime other people's good work, out of fear? Jealousy? Envy? I really don't know. Maybe they know that these people who have, rightly or wrongly, contributed to the rising public awareness of important issues, eventually will put up that INCONVENIENT CONTRAST to WP's relatively quietness to make it look pretty lame in parliament.

WP has declared it will walk its own path, so be it. But why would WP people want to cross other people's path by jabbing at others who are doing a great job for the overall opposition cause? That really puzzles me a lot.

Goh Meng Seng
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[scroobal]

Papsmearer


Default CPF rally at Hong Lim and the deafening absence of WP and other oppos
So, a very curious thing happened at the olde rally. 6000 people showed up to speak out and to hear people speak out against the exploitive CPF policies, but the people that mattered the most, the official opposition was noticeable for their absence. Where was the WP? Where were the representatives of other opposition parties? Did Roy ban them? Did the organizers tell them not to come? Here is a ready made opportunity in front of 6000 people, and with your message beamed out on facebook and Youtube within minutes after you speak, and yet you are not there? Is there a better place and time to explain your party's stand on CPF, and what you would change if you took power? Is there a not a great opportunity to say a few words about the abusive nature of CPF, and at least show some support that it must change for the better, and that they are the party to do it? The supposed oppo WP does not only represent WP voters, but it represents the 40% of singaporeans who did not vote for the PAP, this is a large number of people. Over 1 million people. And yet, we have not heard a whimper from them. I want the WP to come out and say "Roy has made many good points regarding the CPF and we are of the same mind". I want them to say "CPF should pay 8% and be allowed to be withdrawn at 55 years". We need an orator of Churchilian proportions to whip the people at Hong Lim into a frenzy.

So, why is it this way? I can only assert that the WP is a fake oppo. People like Roy, Leong, etc. should run as independents in the next elections. I would request Roy to save a small portion of his legal fund donations to use a deposit for the next elections. Or else, they should band together and try for a GRC. Sinkies pay $16000 a month to oppo MPS. If they are not going to speak out on more issues, and keep voting the same way as the PAP, than why don't they just turn their pay over directly to the PAP. They look suspiciously like PAP "B" team to me.
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[scroobal]

Debonerman

Default Re: CPF rally at Hong Lim and the deafening absence of WP and other oppos
.
You always get excited over development of single and even isolated battles. That's you. It's okay. But the big boys are fighting a major war. They look at big pictures. As a responsible Opposition even when they reach a size and capability to take the fight to the Istana, they will still have to make sure it won't end up like a Gettysburg.
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[scroobal]

If anyone had a clue how WP would evolve is to see what happened after GE2006 when GMS left the party over his internet engagement. It was not a style that suited LTK. LTK took over a party that could have been made bankrupt as result of 2 individuals. It was bitter and painful lesson. The curtains were drawn in and the battens closed.

WP also chose a style that was quite unique and reminiscent of the communist and left wing middle school approach where voters were approached in a quite and individual manner and the broom and buckets brought out. It showed that they were of the people and they spoke the same language. Many of us laughed at it especially in the early 90s and thought that SDP under Chiam had the winning formula. But it was WP that fashioned its own unique political style and it is now reaping results. Its a system that that PA and the grassroots could not emulate.

The only flaw with the system is that they looked naked in Parliament, lost for words and unable to capitalise on current issues. To remain relevant in Parliament, they certainly have to do more. It will take the edge from the growing criticisms. The votes is the start and parliament is when you deliver.

I expect them to continue to take seats from the PAP, something interestingly was acknowledged by one of SPH lead prostitutes. But there must be parallel movement in public discourse and performance in Parliament.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

The tactic of personal engagement and National Policy Discourse platform are not mutually exclusive at all, least the internet engagement methodology vs ground engagement face to face. But it seems strange to me that WP prefer to chose only one method in this era. Granted that back in early 2000, internet new media was not that pervasive, one could conclude that it may be more rewarding to focus on ground engagement methodology, but time has changed and even PAP realize that. Thus, in contrast, such inability to evolve out of old strategy is very unfortunate and may be detrimental to WP's long term development.

WP cannot continue to view itself as a small localized opposition party which does not need to address to National issues at National level and platform. That would set a limitation to its growth.

But if the current leadership still thinks it is the only best strategy for it, so be it. I am happy with such ultra-conservative position while watching other parties and activists make their own progress in this area. Let's see who can sustain and prevail in the long run.

However, if WP changes leadership and changes its direction in the near future, then I think it would be best development for Singapore's democratic landscape. That is the most welcome outcome.

Goh Meng Seng

If anyone had a clue how WP would evolve is to see what happened after GE2006 when GMS left the party over his internet engagement. It was not a style that suited LTK. LTK took over a party that could have been made bankrupt as result of 2 individuals. It was bitter and painful lesson. The curtains were drawn in and the battens closed.

WP also chose a style that was quite unique and reminiscent of the communist and left wing middle school approach where voters were approached in a quite and individual manner and the broom and buckets brought out. It showed that they were of the people and they spoke the same language. Many of us laughed at it especially in the early 90s and thought that SDP under Chiam had the winning formula. But it was WP that fashioned its own unique political style and it is now reaping results. Its a system that that PA and the grassroots could not emulate.

The only flaw with the system is that they looked naked in Parliament, lost for words and unable to capitalise on current issues. To remain relevant in Parliament, they certainly have to do more. It will take the edge from the growing criticisms. The votes is the start and parliament is when you deliver.

I expect them to continue to take seats from the PAP, something interestingly was acknowledged by one of SPH lead prostitutes. But there must be parallel movement in public discourse and performance in Parliament.

 

[kryonlight]

The only flaw with the system is that they looked naked in Parliament, lost for words and unable to capitalise on current issues. To remain relevant in Parliament, they certainly have to do more. It will take the edge from the growing criticisms. The votes is the start and parliament is when you deliver.

What more do you want from the WP when there isn't even enough votes from the population? WP didn't get 40% of the votes. Yes, they didn't get 40% of the votes. It's only just 12.8%.

Goh Meng Seng garnered 12.0% of the votes. Why don't you target him instead? Compared to WP, what is he doing now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporean_general_election,_2011

 

[scroobal]

I give you a clue. WP MPs collect $16K a month each. It is not for running the town council. So what do you think the monthly payment is for - winning a seat?

Sorry I have to be blunt as winning a seat from the PAP is not taken for granted. If WP after winning a seat, do not collect the $16K a month, I guarantee you that no one would complain. You do realise the role of an MP? It is not to attend MTP session either.

Lastly GMS does not collect $16K a month. Why should I waste my time with him.

Get the peekture?

What more do you want from the WP when there isn't even enough votes from the population? WP didn't get 40% of the votes. Yes, they didn't get 40% of the votes. It's only just 12.8%.

Goh Meng Seng garnered 12.0% of the votes. Why don't you target him instead? Compared to WP, what is he doing now?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporean_general_election,_2011

 

[kryonlight]

I give you a clue. WP MPs collect $16K a month each. It is not for running the town council. So what do you think the monthly payment is for - winning a seat?

That's very lame coming from scroobal. PAP MPs collect $16K per month each. By definition, you must fark each and every PAP MP once a month. LOL!

 

[scroobal]

You asked why I did not target GMS. And you got your answer.

Don't worry we will vote for WP against the PAP each and every time.

That's very lame coming from scroobal. PAP MPs collect $16K per month each. By definition, you must fark each and every PAP MP once a month. LOL!

 

[xingguy]

I give you a clue. WP MPs collect $16K a month each. It is not for running the town council. So what do you think the monthly payment is for - winning a seat?

Sorry I have to be blunt as winning a seat from the PAP is not taken for granted. If WP after winning a seat, do not collect the $16K a month, I guarantee you that no one would complain. You do realise the role of an MP? It is not to attend MTP session either.

Lastly GMS does not collect $16K a month. Why should I waste my time with him.

Get the peekture?

Old fart has been doing that for ages, so is that ok with you?

 

[kryonlight]

You asked why I did not target GMS. And you got your answer.

In the true spirit of democracy, it is NOT THE SALARY that counts.

12% of the eligible population gave their votes for Goh Meng Seng. What had Goh Meng Seng done for these 12% of the people compared to what the WP had done for their 12.8%? He dropped out halfway. Isn't that more deplorable?

 

[Papsmearer]

The tactic of personal engagement and National Policy Discourse platform are not mutually exclusive at all, least the internet engagement methodology vs ground engagement face to face. But it seems strange to me that WP prefer to chose only one method in this era. Granted that back in early 2000, internet new media was not that pervasive, one could conclude that it may be more rewarding to focus on ground engagement methodology, but time has changed and even PAP realize that. Thus, in contrast, such inability to evolve out of old strategy is very unfortunate and may be detrimental to WP's long term development.

WP cannot continue to view itself as a small localized opposition party which does not need to address to National issues at National level and platform. That would set a limitation to its growth.

But if the current leadership still thinks it is the only best strategy for it, so be it. I am happy with such ultra-conservative position while watching other parties and activists make their own progress in this area. Let's see who can sustain and prevail in the long run.

However, if WP changes leadership and changes its direction in the near future, then I think it would be best development for Singapore's democratic landscape. That is the most welcome outcome.

Goh Meng Seng

Yes, I agree with you. The technology is here now for a small political party to punch above its weight. Even Roy who is a nobody with a blog of I don't know how many followers is punching way above his weight. Capitalizing on the social media, he has brought the issue of CPF to the forefront, in a way that WP has not. WP with all its resources and organization, with its MPs collecting over $1 million a year in salary should have been the ones championing a just and fair CPF, not Roy.

Politics is dirty, LKY has already said that. He will meet you in a dark alley with a hatchet, and the PAP will not play nice and act the gentleman. Why then should the WP? They have to out something at risk and go all out too, in order to earn the respect of the voters. The voters do not enjoy immunity from all prosecution through Parliamentary Privilege. they do, and if they are so afraid to use, it, I suggest they make CSJ or Roy their Secretary General. because these people ARE NOT AFRAID TO SPEAK THE MIND OF THE MAN ON THE STREET.

 

[Papsmearer]

In the true spirit of democracy, it is NOT THE SALARY that counts.

12% of the eligible population gave their votes for Goh Meng Seng. What had Goh Meng Seng done for these 12% of the people compared to what the WP had done for their 12.8%? He dropped out halfway. Isn't that more deplorable?

No, you fucktard. its better to drop out than to sell out. Tell your PAP handler that.

 

[Papsmearer]

What more do you want from the WP when there isn't even enough votes from the population? WP didn't get 40% of the votes. Yes, they didn't get 40% of the votes. It's only just 12.8%.

Goh Meng Seng garnered 12.0% of the votes. Why don't you target him instead? Compared to WP, what is he doing now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporean_general_election,_2011

It does not matter whether they get 12.8 or 40%. the fact is they represent the 40% of the people that voted against the PAP too. As an opp, they represent all people who are opposed to the PAP. Wrap that around your head first, moron.

 

[Papsmearer]

That's very lame coming from scroobal. PAP MPs collect $16K per month each. By definition, you must fark each and every PAP MP once a month. LOL!

Yes, in this forum, we fuck each and every PAP MP more than once a month. What's your problem?

 

[glockman]

WP needs new leadership to make further in-roads, in order to effect changes (or seen effecting changes) that the Electorate wants to see. Either that or for its leadership to snap out of its current stupor and start behaving and performing like a bonafide OP everyday of every week of every month of every year. WP owes its voters that! It is now blissfully stuck at where it has been for many years, happily playing co-driver. Happy to be PAP B team, PAP-lite or what have you. Saying its a small party with limited resources, blah blah. Fuck this shit and start doing your job WP. If LTK is the problem, that WP should solve it! If not, voters will start finding other OPs more viable to support.

 

[xingguy]

It does not matter whether they get 12.8 or 40%. the fact is they represent the 40% of the people that voted against the PAP too. As an opp, they represent all people who are opposed to the PAP. Wrap that around your head first, moron.

40% of the vote only translate to 6.9% in parliament.
That is a glaring disproportionate representation.

You can talk and shout all you want but when it comes to the vote, any policies that PAP wants to shaft down our throat, they can.
Think, the 6.9 million population white paper.

 

[scroobal]

Why you think i want Old man out. It is for the exact same reason, collect money but no sound in parliament. Bloody disgrace.

Old fart has been doing that for ages, so is that ok with you?