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My Challenge to All Atheists

fishbuff

Alfrescian
Loyal
you BELIEVE there is a god and he is the god of israel.
you BELIEVE the god is not a god of chinese, indian, eskimo, greek or amazonian origin.
you BELIEVE there is 3 gods like super's 3-in-1 coffee.
you BELIEVE you are sinful.
you BELIEVE jesus died for your sin.
you BELIEVE there is a heaven and hell.
you BELIEVE there is an adam and eve.
you BELIEVE there was a talking donkey.
you BELIEVE there was a global flood.
you BELIEVE the earth is of 6000 years old.

sure... you BELIEVE... no evidence, no facts, no reasoning, simple pure BELIEVE....
 

Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
God is the creator, creation is in Him. He does not need a creator sir.
So do you have definitive proofs that god does not exist?
 

Fusioncat

New Member
Quote: "That is why I use these parables, For they look, but they don't really see. They hear, but they don't really listen or understand." Mathew: 13:13
Quote: "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Mathew: 7:15"

Do not believe in anything (simply) because you have heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumoured by many.
Do not believe in anything (simply) because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But after observation and analysis when you find that anything agrees with reason
and is conductive to the good and benefit of one and all then accept it and live up to it.



I am not interested in challenging, but I would like to share my humble 2 cents.
My purpose and intention after point 4, you can jump straight down.
it is your CHOICE.
1. I personally respect Polytheist (e.g. Hinduism, Taoism, etc.). This is because I do embrace higher beings.
BUT
2. I personally cannot accept Monotheist for a few reasons

Lets look at it from basic.
a) Clean water bottle cannot pour out dirty water
If a sentient being contain undesirable / dirt / unwholesome attributes, then the source is questionable.
(In this case the belief of the existence is questionable)
Else it becomes a belief of an INTENTIONAL contamination, which is contradicting again.
When I say attributes, I am referring to capabilities. E.g. Men has DNA to grow moustache. Women can give birth.
Look around you. According to statistics, one in six women in America will be a victim of sexual assault in their lifetime.
I don't need to go into the problem of this world. Famine, disasters, greed, hatred, ignorance, sloth, stupor, jealousy, etc.
I don't need to go into details of how a wasp can lay eggs into a caterpillar, which kills it from within.
If you have a sister, a lover, or being a woman yourself, you will know the amount of pain that a woman has to go through.

2) Contamination and the argument on free will.
Contamination can either come from within or external
Both are contradicting. If contamination come from within, then it is blasphemy. If it exist from external, it is even more blasphemy to say there is a world outside the "creator".
Back to "attributes", the innate ability to do something, e.g give birth. Human beings have a lot of positive emotions.
Love, Hope, Happiness, Gratitude, Kindness, Generosity, Abstinent, Stillness, Wisdom, Compassion, Dream.
I really don't see the need to put "negative" attributes like "defiance" into a creation or enmity or intolerance.
Such act makes me wonder if the being's follower who "desperately" want us to believe in "him"/"her" is a devil himself/herself

2.5) How other PolyTheist view life?
EVERYBODY is a beautiful flower. We all have that beautiful "seed"(potential) in all of us.
We are just clouded , deluded and lack of experiences. We are like windows, just need a little wipe to be able to see clearly.
ALL of us are capable of doing so, there is no difference between the teacher and the student (Student CAN reach the teacher's capabilities)
I believe any belief who teaches people to do good/RESPECT other beliefs are good beliefs while any beliefs that teaches intolerant, should be considered(e.g ONLY mine is right, all others are wrong)

3) Insecurity
I am sorry to say this, being guilty of it myself, but people who want people to believe in what he/she want to believe is often insecure.
Example, if today, you like Apple A LOT and I force you over to Android or Windows, you will be very upset.
I have gone through a lot and now believe in being tolerant, understanding and embracing. If you like to believe in Monotheism, I respect and embrace that.

4) Issues I personally had with monotheism (My humble opinion)
a) There are too many contradictions
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
b) Even the resurrection has contradictions
http://atheism.about.com/od/gospelcontradictions/p/Resurrection.htm

c) To me it was simple, don't create that tree in Eden. Fence it, lock it, wall it.
Use 3M glass or Security Sensor.
Don't create Lucifer or Satan. It is like putting a match or gun on a child's hand.
Those people who suffered from rape, died in World Wars, Disaster, would rather you do not create them.

d) I feel the believer wants others to believe in a man who cannot even save himself (I don't wish to go into that on the betrayal or to die for someone)
As compared to another religious "Teacher", people have tried to slander/kill/frame/murder, none succeeded. He choose to enter maha-parinibbana (at 80)
http://www.thisismyanmar.com/nibbana/defeats.htm
Now whether this are real or not is NOT important. Refer to the top quote:
Do not simply believe.... But after observation and analysis when you find that anything agrees with reason
and is conductive to the good and benefit of one and all then accept it and live up to it
.
Whether you believe or not, is up to you, he NEVER force you to believe, like some religion's followers.
In fact he recognise and ask his disciples to continue to respect who they were previously respecting.

5) Now this is the most interesting part:
http://thedailyenlightenment.com/2012/03/the-buddhas-victory-over-a-god-demon/
A "sentient being" thought that he created the universe, and he is the lord of all (sounds familiar?)
Mara (Devil) ascended heaven and possessed one of the "God"'s attendant and tell the "Teacher" not to be rude to the "Creator"

Now someone can only "slander" someone who is "before" him.. there is no way someone can "slander" someone who is in the future (500 years after him).

6) What are my purpose and intention.
1. You want to bind them to your beliefs
I want you to be FREE.
Else what difference would that be from a CULT (100% faith), "ONLY my belief is RIGHT" (Very cult like)

2. Instead of focusing your energy on trying to challenge others.
FOCUS all your energy on loving yourself and others (love by RESPECTING their beliefs and their rights NOT to believe).
FOCUS on PRACTISE. Believing is NOT good enough, It is NOT who you believe, it is how you LIVE your beliefs.

3. Whether they believe or NOT is not important.
Do you BELIEVE? If you do, then that is good enough. Let others take their own course.
Your can't force other people. If you TRULY believe in your believe, you don't need to make others believe so you will feel "save" and secure

Lastly.
4. What is RIGHT belief
Any teachings, that teaches you to LOVE, RESPECT, INNER PEACE, BE at HARMONY with, RESPECT, CARE, FILIAL, COMPASSION, WISDOM, etc, are worth adopting.

Any beliefs, who only make you less tolerant of other's belief should be thought twice.

Take care, stay well my friend. LOVE YOURSELF FIRST.
 

fishbuff

Alfrescian
Loyal
Quote: "That is why I use these parables, For they look, but they don't really see. They hear, but they don't really listen or understand." Mathew: 13:13
Quote: "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Mathew: 7:15"

Do not believe in anything (simply) because you have heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumoured by many.
Do not believe in anything (simply) because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But after observation and analysis when you find that anything agrees with reason
and is conductive to the good and benefit of one and all then accept it and live up to it.



I am not interested in challenging, but I would like to share my humble 2 cents.
My purpose and intention after point 4, you can jump straight down.
it is your CHOICE.
1. I personally respect Polytheist (e.g. Hinduism, Taoism, etc.). This is because I do embrace higher beings.
BUT
2. I personally cannot accept Monotheist for a few reasons

Lets look at it from basic.
a) Clean water bottle cannot pour out dirty water
If a sentient being contain undesirable / dirt / unwholesome attributes, then the source is questionable.
(In this case the belief of the existence is questionable)
Else it becomes a belief of an INTENTIONAL contamination, which is contradicting again.
When I say attributes, I am referring to capabilities. E.g. Men has DNA to grow moustache. Women can give birth.
Look around you. According to statistics, one in six women in America will be a victim of sexual assault in their lifetime.
I don't need to go into the problem of this world. Famine, disasters, greed, hatred, ignorance, sloth, stupor, jealousy, etc.
I don't need to go into details of how a wasp can lay eggs into a caterpillar, which kills it from within.
If you have a sister, a lover, or being a woman yourself, you will know the amount of pain that a woman has to go through.

2) Contamination and the argument on free will.
Contamination can either come from within or external
Both are contradicting. If contamination come from within, then it is blasphemy. If it exist from external, it is even more blasphemy to say there is a world outside the "creator".
Back to "attributes", the innate ability to do something, e.g give birth. Human beings have a lot of positive emotions.
Love, Hope, Happiness, Gratitude, Kindness, Generosity, Abstinent, Stillness, Wisdom, Compassion, Dream.
I really don't see the need to put "negative" attributes like "defiance" into a creation or enmity or intolerance.
Such act makes me wonder if the being's follower who "desperately" want us to believe in "him"/"her" is a devil himself/herself

2.5) How other PolyTheist view life?
EVERYBODY is a beautiful flower. We all have that beautiful "seed"(potential) in all of us.
We are just clouded , deluded and lack of experiences. We are like windows, just need a little wipe to be able to see clearly.
ALL of us are capable of doing so, there is no difference between the teacher and the student (Student CAN reach the teacher's capabilities)
I believe any belief who teaches people to do good/RESPECT other beliefs are good beliefs while any beliefs that teaches intolerant, should be considered(e.g ONLY mine is right, all others are wrong)

3) Insecurity
I am sorry to say this, being guilty of it myself, but people who want people to believe in what he/she want to believe is often insecure.
Example, if today, you like Apple A LOT and I force you over to Android or Windows, you will be very upset.
I have gone through a lot and now believe in being tolerant, understanding and embracing. If you like to believe in Monotheism, I respect and embrace that.

4) Issues I personally had with monotheism (My humble opinion)
a) There are too many contradictions
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
b) Even the resurrection has contradictions
http://atheism.about.com/od/gospelcontradictions/p/Resurrection.htm

c) To me it was simple, don't create that tree in Eden. Fence it, lock it, wall it.
Use 3M glass or Security Sensor.
Don't create Lucifer or Satan. It is like putting a match or gun on a child's hand.
Those people who suffered from rape, died in World Wars, Disaster, would rather you do not create them.

d) I feel the believer wants others to believe in a man who cannot even save himself (I don't wish to go into that on the betrayal or to die for someone)
As compared to another religious "Teacher", people have tried to slander/kill/frame/murder, none succeeded. He choose to enter maha-parinibbana (at 80)
http://www.thisismyanmar.com/nibbana/defeats.htm
Now whether this are real or not is NOT important. Refer to the top quote:
Do not simply believe.... But after observation and analysis when you find that anything agrees with reason
and is conductive to the good and benefit of one and all then accept it and live up to it
.
Whether you believe or not, is up to you, he NEVER force you to believe, like some religion's followers.
In fact he recognise and ask his disciples to continue to respect who they were previously respecting.

5) Now this is the most interesting part:
http://thedailyenlightenment.com/2012/03/the-buddhas-victory-over-a-god-demon/
A "sentient being" thought that he created the universe, and he is the lord of all (sounds familiar?)
Mara (Devil) ascended heaven and possessed one of the "God"'s attendant and tell the "Teacher" not to be rude to the "Creator"

Now someone can only "slander" someone who is "before" him.. there is no way someone can "slander" someone who is in the future (500 years after him).

6) What are my purpose and intention.
1. You want to bind them to your beliefs
I want you to be FREE.
Else what difference would that be from a CULT (100% faith), "ONLY my belief is RIGHT" (Very cult like)

2. Instead of focusing your energy on trying to challenge others.
FOCUS all your energy on loving yourself and others (love by RESPECTING their beliefs and their rights NOT to believe).
FOCUS on PRACTISE. Believing is NOT good enough, It is NOT who you believe, it is how you LIVE your beliefs.

3. Whether they believe or NOT is not important.
Do you BELIEVE? If you do, then that is good enough. Let others take their own course.
Your can't force other people. If you TRULY believe in your believe, you don't need to make others believe so you will feel "save" and secure

Lastly.
4. What is RIGHT belief
Any teachings, that teaches you to LOVE, RESPECT, INNER PEACE, BE at HARMONY with, RESPECT, CARE, FILIAL, COMPASSION, WISDOM, etc, are worth adopting.

Any beliefs, who only make you less tolerant of other's belief should be thought twice.

Take care, stay well my friend. LOVE YOURSELF FIRST.

the problem with abrahamic religions is that they MUST believe that theirs is the real deal and everyone else is false. That is the prerequisite, absolutely no compromise, no substitution and no pluralism.
 

Psalm23

Alfrescian
Loyal
ha.. i dont need to run away.. im waiting for you to pull your gods out of the magic trick hat.

Fishy,

You have said quite the same thing in another thread here and I have replied. Let me reply again.

You are one-up against Fruiti's father who has to cowardly run away when he was being questioned on theology of the Bible. I don't believe you have a degree in theology, but Fruiti's dad got one. This confirms that education cannot make a person, even his own son called him 'silly' even though he got a degree. As you have pointed out....the degree could be an online degree....but frankly don't underestimate some online degrees. (Don't be mistaken....I don't have an online degree.....)
 

fishbuff

Alfrescian
Loyal
Fishy,

You have said quite the same thing in another thread here and I have replied. Let me reply again.

You are one-up against Fruiti's father who has to cowardly run away when he was being questioned on theology of the Bible. I don't believe you have a degree in theology, but Fruiti's dad got one. This confirms that education cannot make a person, even his own son called him 'silly' even though he got a degree. As you have pointed out....the degree could be an online degree....but frankly don't underestimate some online degrees. (Don't be mistaken....I don't have an online degree.....)

nah, there is a big difference between pentecostal and evangelical. I always think the former is a bigger nutjob than the latter. In the latter group, they want someone that goes thru' proper training and education, whereas for the pentecostal, and tom, dick and harry can be a pastor or church leader.
 

deepblue0911

Alfrescian
Loyal
I already proved God exists on this thread sir. Follow the thread please.

Now prove atheism please.

You're really silly and as a fellow Christian, I'm ashamed of your relentless pursuit of proofs by Atheists. You seem bent on provoking people, and it's unclear what positive outcomes can be derived. Please stop challenging Atheists if you do not want to beget the same. Faith is a very personal bond between you and God. Why do you need to justify the existence to anyone? Who does anyone need to justify the non-existence to you? WTF do you think you're? You're not fit to represent Christians.
 

Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
Nah don't BS here w me. You are not a Christian.

The challenge to all atheists including you continues.

Peace
 

deepblue0911

Alfrescian
Loyal
Nah don't BS here w me. You are not a Christian. The challenge to all atheists including you continues. Peace

Your behaviours here clearly show that you're not fit to be a Christian. If you're a Christian, then you've let God down. It's time to repent. You're clearly the devil's incarnate.

You challenge Atheists. Is that God's teaching? You question other religions and cast aspersions. Is that God's teaching? You made fun and belittle a dead man? Is that God's teaching? You talked about virgins and question others about their daughters, etc. That's God's teaching?

You're an anarchist out to stir troubles in this forum.
 
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Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
Where is it in God teacher did it say we cannot challenge atheism?
Proofs please sir.

I didn't use a dead man for political purpose sir, you opposition people did. I am simply telling the truth.

And what is wrong with extolling morality and challenging people to think about morality?

Btw stop pretending to be a Christian of any sort sir.
 
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fishbuff

Alfrescian
Loyal
"The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
Yeah, Christianity makes perfect sense."
 

deepblue0911

Alfrescian
Loyal
Where is it in God teacher did it say we cannot challenge atheism?
Proofs please sir.

I didn't use a dead man for political purpose sir, you opposition people did. I am simply telling the truth.

And what is wrong with extolling morality and challenging people to think about morality?

Btw stop pretending to be a Christian of any sort sir.

You're extolling morality? Your actions speak of the exact opposite. It's not what you said dude, it's what you do. You're a pathetic liar.

Umm, challenging Atheists. The question is never just about what you do but why. WHY, Kinana, WHY. I've been asking you the purpose of your challenge many many times. Unfortunately, you have NEVER been able to give a simple, straight response as to the PURPOSE you hope to achieve by taking on a antagonistic approach to engage Atheists? Avoiding difficult questions again, Kinana? So Kinana, isn't it? :biggrin: Cannot answer, siam. Ok, siam some more.

If you dare, start a poll here and ask all the forumers whether your actions are seen as Christian. Let the people judge. Got balls?

Even if people indeed used LHS death for political purpose, you should attack those people who do that, correct? But what did you do? You attacked LHS. You attacked the dead man whom, in your mind, was being used by others for political reasons. In simple terms, you attacked a victim of political exploitation, and a dead victim for that matter. Wow!!! Now, how is that logical and reasonable as you often praised yourself?

If you think you can hide your devious actions infront of me, think harder. Everything you said, and the more you said (which you do, you talk too much), you're more exposed to being call a bluff.

Pretending? Why? You're upset that a fellow Christian is not on your side? Now hear this, brother Kinana. God gave me wisdom, so I can see your falsehood and stupidity. Get it? :biggrin:

PS Oh, you seem very against political exploitation. You must have seen TJS eulogy for LHS. He's clearly taking advantage of the situation. Why are you not attacking him, but instead asked people not to be judgemental about TJS? Double standard? Why?
 
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