TOC Remy Choo scores own goal again !

[Avantas]

In the Zaobao interview here , TOC’s Remy Choo Zheng Xi said the following in the last paragraph:
“When someone criticises my opinions of current affairs, I will treat their opinions seriously and debate with him actively. However, I will not be bothered if they launch personal attacks.”

Mr Choo appears to be claiming a moral high ground against his critics in cyberspace by refusing to get involved in the “mudslinging”.

There are two discrepancies inherent in his statement:

1. There were never any personal attacks launched against Mr Choo in the first place. All we did is to expose his sneaky dealings with the PAP and ask for clarifications which so far he has wantonly refused to do so.

2. Mr Choo’s seemingly nonchalance was a complete facade as when it was first revealed in February this year that he wrote the speeches of PAP MP Ho Geok Choo (now, how can this be misconstrued as a ‘personal attack’ if it is true?), Mr Choo put up a robust rebuttal of the allegations vehemently almost immediately on both TOC and Singabloodypore where the accusations first surface:

Read rest of article here:

http://wayangparty.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/toc-remy-choo-scores-another-own-goal/

 

[Wisely]

In the Zaobao interview here , TOC’s Remy Choo Zheng Xi said the following in the last paragraph:
“When someone criticises my opinions of current affairs, I will treat their opinions seriously and debate with him actively. However, I will not be bothered if they launch personal attacks.”

Mr Choo appears to be claiming a moral high ground against his critics in cyberspace by refusing to get involved in the “mudslinging”.

There are two discrepancies inherent in his statement:

1. There were never any personal attacks launched against Mr Choo in the first place. All we did is to expose his sneaky dealings with the PAP and ask for clarifications which so far he has wantonly refused to do so.

2. Mr Choo’s seemingly nonchalance was a complete facade as when it was first revealed in February this year that he wrote the speeches of PAP MP Ho Geok Choo (now, how can this be misconstrued as a ‘personal attack’ if it is true?), Mr Choo put up a robust rebuttal of the allegations vehemently almost immediately on both TOC and Singabloodypore where the accusations first surface:

Read rest of article here:

http://wayangparty.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/toc-remy-choo-scores-another-own-goal/

It's no indication of what this "personal attacks" refer to. Remy Choo might have been referring to someone else or somewhere else.

 

[Avantas]

It is possible, but you must read the context of the interview.

The first part is about Choo being labeled a PAP mole by his critic, so I supposed this is the personal attack that the journalist is alluding to when he ask Choo that question.

It's no indication of what this "personal attacks" refer to. Remy Choo might have been referring to someone else or somewhere else.

 

[Wisely]

Then do you agree with calling someone a "mole" a personal attack?

I read that piece. Guess the label refers to Remy's involvement in TOC as a PAP guy. However TOC has nothing that praises the PAP. If what you say is true then Ho Geok Choo's attempts have failed and Remy has gone astray. Reminds me of the old Taiwan where the spies planted by KMT into the Tangwai turned against them and helped form the DPP.

 

[Avantas]

If Remy Choo has nothing to hide, why did he DENY his involvement with the PAP MP initially in February ?

And he dared to accuse the whistle-blower Jasper of lying. However, when concrete proof is presented, he has no choice but to do a 180 degree U-Turn and reveals the truth !

Don't you find his character and integrity questionable ?

Then do you agree with calling someone a "mole" a personal attack?

I read that piece. Guess the label refers to Remy's involvement in TOC as a PAP guy. However TOC has nothing that praises the PAP. If what you say is true then Ho Geok Choo's attempts have failed and Remy has gone astray. Reminds me of the old Taiwan where the spies planted by KMT into the Tangwai turned against them and helped form the DPP.

 

[giggity_shit]

Then do you agree with calling someone a "mole" a personal attack?

I read that piece. Guess the label refers to Remy's involvement in TOC as a PAP guy. However TOC has nothing that praises the PAP. If what you say is true then Ho Geok Choo's attempts have failed and Remy has gone astray. Reminds me of the old Taiwan where the spies planted by KMT into the Tangwai turned against them and helped form the DPP.

These days its incredibly difficult to tell friend apart from foe.

 

[captainxerox]

These days its incredibly difficult to tell friend apart from foe.

one day fren, next day foe. trust nobody in politics. not pap, not toc, not sdp, not sdp. be 100% cynical

 

[giggity_shit]

one day fren, next day foe. trust nobody in politics. not pap, not toc, not sdp, not sdp. be 100% cynical

I disagree,

we should be 80% critical and maybe just 20% cynical.

 

[Avantas]

Yeah, we should always be cynical especially when we are visiting a blog which is not run by one, but a few PAP members !!!

God knows if they track our IP addresses, better don't leave any comments on them to play safe !

one day fren, next day foe. trust nobody in politics. not pap, not toc, not sdp, not sdp. be 100% cynical

 

[myjohnson]

Initially, I wanted to join my RC to serve my neighbourhood with the intent to play a part in crime prevention and had indicated to my MP as so. Naturally I was welcomed. But I changed my mind after observing the characters that make up the RC's roll, I realised that they are mostly of the S.A.R.S kind ie: Snake And Rat Shit. Beside this, my point is, I had wanted to be a part of what is obviously connected to the PAP. Despite my anti-establishment leanings in my posts, does that make me a 'mole' ?

 

[Avantas]

Bro,

You don't seem to get the meaning of the word "MOLE".

It is not defined by your membership or association of the PAP.

A MOLE is like a spy serving a specific purpose.

In the case put forth, the moles are sent by PAP to control and regulate the internet by pretending to be "non-partisan" and "independent" to evade suspicions of netizens.

So what even if you are a RC member ? Do you have this agenda of spreading PAP propagada here ? If you do not have, then you do not qualify to be a mole.

Initially, I wanted to join my RC to serve my neighbourhood with the intent to play a part in crime prevention and had indicated to my MP as so. Naturally I was welcomed. But I changed my mind after observing the characters that make up the RC's roll, I realised that they are mostly of the S.A.R.S kind ie: Snake And Rat Shit. Beside this, my point is, I had wanted to be a part of what is obviously connected to the PAP. Despite my anti-establishment leanings in my posts, does that make me a 'mole' ?

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I gather the late Samad Ismail once told LKY during the early tumultous days of PAP (tussle between LKY and the english educated 'right' socialists and Lim Chin Siong and the 'left' socialists and the Plen and gang) before PAP came to power that "nothing happened spontaneously in Singapore, there was always someone lurking behind the 'curtains'

one day fren, next day foe. trust nobody in politics. not pap, not toc, not sdp, not sdp. be 100% cynical

 

[myjohnson]

Bro,

You don't seem to get the meaning of the word "MOLE".

It is not defined by your membership or association of the PAP.

A MOLE is like a spy serving a specific purpose.

In the case put forth, the moles are sent by PAP to control and regulate the internet by pretending to be "non-partisan" and "independent" to evade suspicions of netizens.

So what even if you are a RC member ? Do you have this agenda of spreading PAP propagada here ? If you do not have, then you do not qualify to be a mole.

Which path would a "mole" take? Overt or covert? For the record, I'm not exactly a fan of TOC because my comment which addressed the association with somebody but not Choo by TOC was not published leading me to conclude that there is some similarity in their practice with the 154th.

 

[Avantas]

Precisely, TOC does not just happen out of sudden from nowhere for good reason.

Tell me which undergraduate will be so free to spend so much time on a blog if there are no inherent benefits for him to do so ?

I gather the late Samad Ismail once told LKY during the early tumultous days of PAP (tussle between LKY and the english educated 'right' socialists and Lim Chin Siong and the 'left' socialists and the Plen and gang) before PAP came to power that "nothing happened spontaneously in Singapore, there was always someone lurking behind the 'curtains'

 

[Avantas]

It is obvious that the PAP moles in TOC had wanted to take the covert route initially by shamelessly hiding their PAP ties with their readers while masquerading as an "independent" blog at the same time till they are exposed and hung out dry and sundry that they have little choice but to admit they are actually PAP members, or rather ex-members !!!

TOC is known to practise a rigorous censorship of comments posted on it that is WORSE than ST Forums. Any criticism of its editors or operations, however remote is CENSORED and only boot-licking praises by its syncophants are published.

You can submit your unpublished comments on TOC here:

http://wayangparty.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/post-your-unpublished-comments-on-toc-here/

Which path would a "mole" take? Overt or covert? For the record, I'm not exactly a fan of TOC because my comment which addressed the association with somebody but not Choo by TOC was not published leading me to conclude that there is some similarity in their practice with the 154th.

 

[myjohnson]

Let's continue to talk about moles. Have you detected any in this forum? I have one in mind and the guy is no covert. I'm not surprise at all, just a little disappointed and fatigued by the almost sentinel like stance of his. Makes this place so much poorer for hungry minds to feast on positive food for thoughts.

 

[kakowi]

I feel that there is no real need to worry about moles at this time. Moles are not your enemy when you are your own worst enemy.

Reason why I am saying this is that the opposition party, well SDP, need to take some time to think through their strategies to see if it is effective.

Mr Goh Meng Seng of the NSP seems to be taking care of himself quite well. I do not know if the other parties are active here.

I do not know if wayang party so promoted by Avantas is related to WP or not, but it will be good if you know where you stand on the political spectrum instead of being reactive to the strategies of others.

Actually the opposition has more than a fighting chance of getting one third of the seats but they need to think through their strategies, their value proposition and the confidence their customers (the voters) have of them. SDP, in particular, seems to be of a one-track mind. In terms of tenacity, that is a good thing. In terms of strategy, it is a strong limiting factor and will prevent success from entering your endeavours. Sorry for the strong language or emphasis, but i really think it is time the opposition wakes up. Otherwise how are voters like me going to have choices?!!!

I wish the SDP will stop reading political manuals and start to read marketing books on meeting customers' need. What they need are voters' buy-in.

So long as voters trust them or think well enough of them to lay bets on them, they will succeed. And that is what the TOC is doing. On the other hand, SDP is doing its own thing, NSP is playing its own game and the rest does not seem to be doing anything.

So, I ask again: why don't all of you go out for a drink together?

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Perhaps you may not have read the Hugo Restall/Feer interview with Dr Chee which I think about sums up Dr Chee's views on local elections based on the current electoral regime underpinning his current NVCD strategy (now too late to view because the court just ruled that it was defamatory). Dr Chee appears to be convinced that he is right that once there true proper liberal democracy is in place then the polls shall vindicate him. I for one truly wonder whether that shall indeed be the case.

Actually the opposition has more than a fighting chance of getting one third of the seats but they need to think through their strategies, their value proposition and the confidence their customers (the voters) have of them. SDP, in particular, seems to be of a one-track mind. In terms of tenacity, that is a good thing. In terms of strategy, it is a strong limiting factor and will prevent success from entering your endeavours. Sorry for the strong language or emphasis, but i really think it is time the opposition wakes up. Otherwise how are voters like me going to have choices?!!!

I wish the SDP will stop reading political manuals and start to read marketing books on meeting customers' need. What they need are voters' buy-in.

So long as voters trust them or think well enough of them to lay bets on them, they will succeed. And that is what the TOC is doing. On the other hand, SDP is doing its own thing, NSP is playing its own game and the rest does not seem to be doing anything.

So, I ask again: why don't all of you go out for a drink together?

 

[kakowi]

I am afraid i didn't read that article.

If Dr Chee felt that he will be vindicated, then it really makes no difference if i read it or not because that word tells me that he is approaching it at the wrong angle.

I dare to take a definitive stance on this because in my view, politicians go into politics for political office and not for public vindication. Only a martyr wants vindication. A politician wants power, status and money.

Political office can only be a reality if and only if they get votes.

And a person get votes not by telling voters what they do not want to know but rather by giving voters what they want.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

To be fair to Dr Chee he did not use the word "vindicate". However the essence of what he said appeared to point in that direction.

It is a pity that you did not read that article because I think it captured what Dr Chee stands for and his strategy, the essence.

I hope Dr Chee shall not feel like the forgotten ussr and chinese lefty commies if he turns out to be wrong.

I am afraid i didn't read that article.

If Dr Chee felt that he will be vindicated, then it really makes no difference if i read it or not because that word tells me that he is approaching it at the wrong angle.

I dare to take a definitive stance on this because in my view, politicians go into politics for political office and not for public vindication. Only a martyr wants vindication. A politician wants power, status and money.

Political office can only be a reality if and only if they get votes.

And a person get votes not by telling voters what they do not want to know but rather by giving voters what they want.