Sinkie Archbishop Nicholas Chia withdraws letter to abolish ISA

[halsey02]

It's no laughing matter bro, it's serious matter. That's why we don't have 911, London, Madrid, Ankara, Mumbai n Karachi type bombings here in Singapore. Those yanks need to learn from us

I am seriously laughing, laughing so much that I am delirious & had turn into anger. I am thankful that we have people who 24 hours a day keep the likes of the these people out of SINgapore, I have & all of us have entrusted our lives to them, this I am thankful & we all have to be thankful.

But with one inept leadership, that could have done us in & is still paid to be around, that was why I laughed! In one Asian country, that person of authority, would have committed harakiri & die with Honor! I won't go into details of the toilet papers, the limping whatever, up Jalan Toa Payoh..float across the sea..

We are thankful for those, who are unseen, unheard, keep us safe..this I would not laugh!

 

[halsey02]

Really sad for the Catholic order.

Once again, they have painted themselves into a corner!

 

[GoldenDragon]

I won't go into details of the toilet papers, the limping whatever, up Jalan Toa Payoh..float across the sea..

You forgot something - the either still in S'pore or out of S'pore statement from a DPM also MInister HA.

 

[Papsmearer]

It will not come to this. The master of brinkmanship is the old man. People will continue to be fed and housed. He knows what is the tipping point. That change will come as it did in Aljunied - creeping and at snail pace.

Nicholas Chia and the Catholics will take it out in the Ballot box as they know they can't take on the Govt any other way. Why you think that Hougang is with the WP.

I am sure Nicholas Chis knows that he folded and is embarrassed by it. He has no choice unless he wants to be Mr Nicholas Chia the next day.

Did you ever wonder why no other religious order takes on the Govt? Because the rest of them unlike the Catholic Church has no reporting lines outside the country. Even the Mufti cannot refer to Saudi Arabia. No need for invitation to chia samosa. It is straight lim kopi or removed from post.

Maybe I can enlighten you here. Nicholas Chia reports to Rome and is appointed by Rome. Not by the PAP or by any ministry. Hence, he is answerable to Rome and Rome only. The only way he can be "Mr. Nicholas Chia" tomorrow is for the church to excommunicate him from Rome. If the Pope decides to replace him, he will go back to his prior post of Monsignor with that title. I cannot speak for why other religious orders do not take on the PAP, the only reason I can think of is they never had Operation Spectrum visited on them. Its not the same for Catholics who went through that period. Most religious orders in SIngapore were founded as a subsidiary branch by their home religion. For example, Anglicans in SIngapore altermately take orders from their head office in the UK. And so forth and so on, even for some buddhist orders. SO, your "no reporting lines outside the country" comment is not true.

Nicholas Chia could have gone the ballot way, but even he did not do that. He could have done many things to make it very clear that the church's position is anti PAP, but he has not done so. Should it be anti govt. on all issues? no. But on the issue of the ISA, yes. he has to plainly state that. The ISA was used to imprison innocent catholics in Spectrum, and that must be made very plain to the catholics. If Chia is very clear on this, catholics by default will know who to vote at the next GE, except those that are judges, minsiters, MIWs, etc.

The tipping point is already here, or very close to here. Look around you. Do u see many happy singaporeans, do you see the lot singaporeans getting better or worse. After you have been retrenched, pinching pennies to make ends meet due to the high cost of living, crowded and sometimes inoperable MRT, FTs stealing your jobs, working like a dog to barely make it, etc. Sinkies can see that other people in the region are having it better than them. The tip is only 10% away.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

It's no laughing matter bro, it's serious matter. That's why we don't have 911, London, Madrid, Ankara, Mumbai n Karachi type bombings here in Singapore. Those yanks need to learn from us

You stupendous fool! There are anti-terrorism laws, sedition laws, gun-control laws and many other laws in Singapore to fight terrorism. What they do not have, in the words of the old bastard himself, is that the ISA is a blunt instrument. This blunt instrument can be used against political opponents as the old bastard himself knows full well and people can be held indefinitely without trial as well. The ISA today is nothing but a political instrument

 

[seesuatah]

Religion and politics cannot mix......your white masters say one!

This is the scam perpetrated by the secular govt.

 

[seesuatah]

Chia is a wimp and totally balls-less! Don't know why he was chosen to lead the local Catholic church in the first place.

How can he fear LKY more than God?

At the age of 70s he still fear death.

ISA beat up and torture his Catholic buddies during the Marxist conspiracy dunno how many donkey years ago.

Now then he change his minds and withdraw the letter of abolishing ISA from the govt?

What kind of wayang is he doing? Isn't it obvious?

 

[drifter]

How can he fear LKY more than God?

At the age of 70s he still fear death.

ISA beat up and torture his Catholic buddies during the Marxist conspiracy dunno how many donkey years ago.

Now then he change his minds and withdraw the letter of abolishing ISA from the govt?

What kind of wayang is he doing? Isn't it obvious?

Of course he fear lky more then god lah because there's no god to begin with and lky is real and kicking

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

It will not come to this. The master of brinkmanship is the old man. People will continue to be fed and housed. He knows what is the tipping point. That change will come as it did in Aljunied - creeping and at snail pace.

Nicholas Chia and the Catholics will take it out in the Ballot box as they know they can't take on the Govt any other way. Why you think that Hougang is with the WP.

I am sure Nicholas Chis knows that he folded and is embarrassed by it. He has no choice unless he wants to be Mr Nicholas Chia the next day.

Did you ever wonder why no other religious order takes on the Govt? Because the rest of them unlike the Catholic Church has no reporting lines outside the country. Even the Mufti cannot refer to Saudi Arabia. No need for invitation to chia samosa. It is straight lim kopi or removed from post.

Old man doesn't look after his country like how he did years ago. His only interest now is to ensure that he dies outside of prison and that his legacy as he sees it is what is left behind. You have to understand the psychology of a dictator. Throughout history dictators are least concerned if their country fails after their natural demise. In fact such failure will only help the dictator to believe that his place in history will be even more cemented in glory.

The country has been in shambles for about two years as the old bastard has allowed the innards of the civil service to rot. If old bastard was running the place as he used to then you would never see such nonsense with flooding and over spending. To understand the PAP you must first understand fascism. To understand LKY you must first understand the psyche or psychology of a dictator. Dictators are psychopaths by nature. They only truly love their wife and daughters. Their sons are there only to ensure that they themselves will continue to live life outside of prison walls when they retire from active political life. Dictators know that they cannot physically ensure their survival from their enemies without someone they can trust to pass on power onto. Their son or sons are always next in line but the chosen son is seldom the ideal candidate to be a dictator or even a leader but such a trait serves another purpose and that is to ensure that the dictator will be held as the best ever.

No dictator's psyche will allow him to have someone else, even his own son, that will be held in higher esteem than the dictator himself.

 

[scroobal]

I am well aware of the reporting lines. That is why old man called the Vatican's rep to come down from Bangkok before taking on Yong. The guy was in another room in Istana while Yong got his dressing down. As I explained, the Vatican considers itself to be sovereign state and will consider the removal of any priests to keep state recognition. Yong was ordered by Rome if you still did not realise. The priests involved was asked to leave. That is Rome talking.

You do realise that during the entire Operation Spectrum, Rome did not cough, make a single comment or even farted your way.

I can assure you that they summoned the Vatican's rep now based in Singapore before good old Nick was summoned. bishop

VAtican can't be bothered about a small country Archbishop but they want to be recognised as a sovereign state.

Maybe I can enlighten you here. Nicholas Chia reports to Rome and is appointed by Rome. Not by the PAP or by any ministry. Hence, he is answerable to Rome and Rome only. The only way he can be "Mr. Nicholas Chia" tomorrow is for the church to excommunicate him from Rome. If the Pope decides to replace him, he will go back to his prior post of Monsignor with that title. I cannot speak for why other religious orders do not take on the PAP, the only reason I can think of is they never had Operation Spectrum visited on them. Its not the same for Catholics who went through that period. Most religious orders in SIngapore were founded as a subsidiary branch by their home religion. For example, Anglicans in SIngapore altermately take orders from their head office in the UK. And so forth and so on, even for some buddhist orders. SO, your "no reporting lines outside the country" comment is not true.

Nicholas Chia could have gone the ballot way, but even he did not do that. He could have done many things to make it very clear that the church's position is anti PAP, but he has not done so. Should it be anti govt. on all issues? no. But on the issue of the ISA, yes. he has to plainly state that. The ISA was used to imprison innocent catholics in Spectrum, and that must be made very plain to the catholics. If Chia is very clear on this, catholics by default will know who to vote at the next GE, except those that are judges, minsiters, MIWs, etc.

The tipping point is already here, or very close to here. Look around you. Do u see many happy singaporeans, do you see the lot singaporeans getting better or worse. After you have been retrenched, pinching pennies to make ends meet due to the high cost of living, crowded and sometimes inoperable MRT, FTs stealing your jobs, working like a dog to barely make it, etc. Sinkies can see that other people in the region are having it better than them. The tip is only 10% away.

 

[enterprise2]

I am well aware of the reporting lines. That is why old man called the Vatican's rep to come down from Bangkok before taking on Yong. The guy was in another room in Istana while Yong got his dressing down. As I explained, the Vatican considers itself to be sovereign state and will consider the removal of any priests to keep state recognition. Yong was ordered by Rome if you still did not realise. The priests involved was asked to leave. That is Rome talking.

You do realise that during the entire Operation Spectrum, Rome did not cough, make a single comment or even farted your way.

I can assure you that they summoned the Vatican's rep now based in Singapore before good old Nick was summoned. bishop

VAtican can't be bothered about a small country Archbishop but they want to be recognised as a sovereign state.

The garment should have just admitted it made a mistake in using ISA on the Catholic activists years ago and move on. The sentiment on the ground is that ISA is still needed but needed to be used only in extreme circumstances. By not admitting and not apologising the Papies have made things worse.

 

[scroobal]

It does not work like that. Will explain.

The bulk of those detained were social activists and do-gooders. Some were not. There was a clandestine network using codes and couriers - typical communist style operations. One of them has become a successful businesswoman and millionaire since her release. She was not a Catholic. Their cover were the social activists. The ones who are making the most noise are these social activists and not the culprits. It is one you call a communist front operation where blurfucks, leftists , idealists are used as fodder and cover.

Ryan Goh, the SIA pilot did the same thing when he authored the letter and asked others to sign the petition ouster the sitting Union Exco while he himself remained in the shadows and did not sign the letter. It was ISD that uncovered the saga. Some people are manipulative while others are easily manipulated. Teo Soh Lung is the latter. Why did he not sign the letter. Like Ryan Goh, the communists will never show their hand.

The second result was totally unexpected and arose from the detention again of those who signed the petition of being tortured in April 88. It led to discovery of the Hendrickson Affair and the expulsion of the First Secretary.

So they got two very good outcomes. The Govt will never disclose these things. These things will never be uncovered by court cases. The British introduced these laws and they also had to apply it when the IRA operated.

The garment should have just admitted it made a mistake in using ISA on the Catholic activists years ago and move on. The sentiment on the ground is that ISA is still needed but needed to be used only in extreme circumstances. By not admitting and not apologising the Papies have made things worse.

 

[enterprise2]

All those cloak and dagger stuff should have come out by now. The govt should come clean on this. It's so many years ago and the threat has passed. If the govt don't explain, then people like me will take the view that it abused it's power by using ISA on those poor activists.

 

[enterprise2]

By the way I want the media to give interviews to the activists to tell their story. Don't want garment to splash the ST on their accounts of this sordid affair. They already did that many years ago with the Hendrickson case.

 

[Narong Wongwan]

How can he fear LKY more than God?

At the age of 70s he still fear death.

he probably wanted to set things right before going to see his god....
But realized he could live to Lky's age.....that's still 20 more years to go

 

[DuYunQi]

It's interesting to read .. and find that SOME.. if not a big majority feel that the ISA is almost like.. passe.
If anyone asked me if there were still communists.. I would say, "probably.. but their ideas have all but dissipated"
Look at the fall of the USSR.. China opened up it's economy and never looked back.. even Vietnam is opening it's doors.. and North Korea is the last "bastion" of Communism.

Is there still any Communist threat? I certainly don't see or feel it.
Are there real possibilities of terrorist activities? Of course! The memories of a video made about ambushing Americans here are still fresh.
But remember, there was evidence to show that terrorism reared its head. Evidence.
To detain someone WITHOUT evidence, WITHOUT trial, WITHOUT a time period.. now that's stuff you hear about ruthless regimes.. stuff that Saddam Hussien, Muamar Gaddaffi and the Khmer Rouge did.

Is the ISA still relevant? I believe so. But I feel it seriously needs to be tweaked.. amended even..
Till when my mother doesn't tell me "don't say things against govt in public, or else you will be taken away".. then I can say Singapore has become a real home for me.

 

[enterprise2]

Yes the day when u feel no fear in Singapore, that's the day I feel right at home. Oh to feel that in my lifetime.

 

[Papsmearer]

I am well aware of the reporting lines. That is why old man called the Vatican's rep to come down from Bangkok before taking on Yong. The guy was in another room in Istana while Yong got his dressing down. As I explained, the Vatican considers itself to be sovereign state and will consider the removal of any priests to keep state recognition. Yong was ordered by Rome if you still did not realise. The priests involved was asked to leave. That is Rome talking.

You do realise that during the entire Operation Spectrum, Rome did not cough, make a single comment or even farted your way.

I can assure you that they summoned the Vatican's rep now based in Singapore before good old Nick was summoned. bishop

VAtican can't be bothered about a small country Archbishop but they want to be recognised as a sovereign state.

This is where you are wrong. The Vatican will consider who is on the ground to make its decision. The Vatican is not a pro-active rather, its reactive. Lets say for example, Chia was arrested under ISA for this latest episode and imprisoned. You will at this time see the vatican swing into action and call a international condemnation of the arrest and use its considerable PR machine against the arrest and against the PAP. It will call for the release of Chia, and put pressure on other govts. like the Italians to talk to the PAP. If you don't believe this, just look at the Phillippines church during the Marcos era when it was led by Cardinal Jaime Sin. Cardinal SIn was an active participant in the movement against Marcos, organized many political rallies against the dictator, and so forth. Vatican got send anyone from Thailand or Rome to tell him to shut up or not? The reason is no. The vatican realises that Cardinal SIn is a different man of god than Yong or Chia. Sin has actually a vision for his flock in the Phillippines, and he has the will and smarts to carry it out.

5 mins after talking to Yong, u will know that he has a jello in his spine, and he was completely and utterly outmaneurved by Old Goat. If you are the Vatican, even u would advice Yong to quit while he can because he was way over his head. This is the same case for Chia. Unfortunately, when the vatican installs these archbishops in singapore, u never know what u will get until crisis happens. It appears Chia has another jellyfish spine. And different Popes have different reactions for this sort of thing. If he pushed the issue and went all in, he will get support from Rome for sure.

This issue of the abolishment of the ISA is not a religious issue. U are wrong if think it is. Everyone in singapore benefits from the abolishment of the ISA regardless of your religion or skin colour. ALthough the populations of catholics may be only a few hundred thousands, I can assure you that even the 60% that voted PAP, some among them will support the abolishing of the ISA. When u look at it in that context, Chia should have no worries to go ahead with the release of this letter.

What kind of life do you want to live? Cower like wet dog and speak softly in fear of a midnight pounding on yoru door, arrest, torture and long jail term and no trial? If Chia has stood up to the PAP, I would say more people would admire the church instead of laugh at it now.

 

[Papsmearer]

It does not work like that. Will explain.

The bulk of those detained were social activists and do-gooders. Some were not. There was a clandestine network using codes and couriers - typical communist style operations. One of them has become a successful businesswoman and millionaire since her release. She was not a Catholic. Their cover were the social activists. The ones who are making the most noise are these social activists and not the culprits. It is one you call a communist front operation where blurfucks, leftists , idealists are used as fodder and cover.

Ryan Goh, the SIA pilot did the same thing when he authored the letter and asked others to sign the petition ouster the sitting Union Exco while he himself remained in the shadows and did not sign the letter. It was ISD that uncovered the saga. Some people are manipulative while others are easily manipulated. Teo Soh Lung is the latter. Why did he not sign the letter. Like Ryan Goh, the communists will never show their hand.

The second result was totally unexpected and arose from the detention again of those who signed the petition of being tortured in April 88. It led to discovery of the Hendrickson Affair and the expulsion of the First Secretary.

So they got two very good outcomes. The Govt will never disclose these things. These things will never be uncovered by court cases. The British introduced these laws and they also had to apply it when the IRA operated.

Don't smoke here with all these kind of nonsense about clandestine network and SIA exco, millionaire businesswoman, etc. Go to the bottom line always. And the bottom line is this:

1) Today, Is the ISA good for SIngaporeans and is it necessary? Even Malaysia has abolished it and we have allowed in hundreds of thousands of card carrying members of the Communist Party of China into Singapore already.

2) Is you say the ISA is bullshit, than it makes sense that it has to be abolished. SO, is a letter from the head of the catholic church advocating the abolishment of this act good or bad?

These are the bottom line questions to ask. No need to weave here and weave there and smoke here and smoke there. U either come down for or against it. Its actually a very black and white topic.

 

[halsey02]

This sums up:

Freedom for The Stallion by A.Toussaint ( Three Dog Night, "Seven Separate Fools" Album)
"Freedom for the stallion, freedom for the mare and her colt,Freedom for the baby child who has not grown old enough to vote. Lord, have mercy, what you gonna do about the people who are prayin' to you? They got men makin' laws that destroy other men, made money, God, it's a doggone
sin," ( abridged)

Did Nicoless "balls" check before he agree to support Alex ? I am sure he has a P.A. , a press secretary , legal counselor who is very well verse both in secular & religious laws?.

Shouldn't he had CHECKED??