Opposition parties cutting into the hard work of others

[Goh Meng Seng]

There is a very thin line between democracy and liberalism/liberatarian. In this case, the meaning would, using your previous sentences, be:

- but I think we abide to the rules of democracy (meaning that you respect the people's decision rather than welcoming mutli-fights. the former is democratic and the latter is liberal). We cannot stop other people to contest in our turfs, similarly, others cannot possibly stop us to contest in their turfs as well. We welcome all contests (liberal).

- I guess only a multi-corner fight could give people the right sense of balance (democratic).

Put it simply, it is a matter of sets and subsets.

There are many levels of democracy, if you want to go into details. I have no problems of mutli-corner fights, frankly. Unless you are suggesting that there would be rules that forbid it.

However, the system of democracy is merely a means to an end. However, if an act at any instance that would jeopardize the achievement of the end, then such things would not be meaningful at all.

For example, if you want to cross the river and there is a boat. You take the boat so that you can reach the other side of the river. However, if the boat is sinking and sunk halfway, would you try to drag the boat along to the other side of the bank? Obviously you will just discard the sinking boat and swim across to the other side.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

It's quite clear that Aljunied and East Coast are spoken for by WP, Jalan Besar and Tampines by NSP, Punggol-Pasir Ris by SDA. These were the respective GRCs that they have contested in previous elections.

New declaration of interest is in Bishan-Toa Payoh by SDA and RP (jointly). So far, no other party has indicated similar interest there.

The normal "stake of claim" is based on past campaign and consistent work on that ground. Just like, it would be totally unacceptable for people to want to contest in Aljunied. If there are people who want to do so, most people would believe that they are sent by agents to disrupt the whole contest.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Perspective]

I know. When I referred to SDP and NSP having experienced that one way or the other in Marine Parade GRC, I meant that SDP was the main contestant and NSP lost deposit. That was 1992 when NSP was relatively new and unknown whereas SDP was then the biggest opposition party in Singapore with three seats in Parliament.

I know too. That contest was why I mentioned it would be interesting to see NSP and SDP in a 3 corner fight as NSP under SDA obtained 32% of the votes in 2006 (I believe it would be the same score if it had been by itself) and SDP is now lower with 22%. It would prove how much Singaporeans know about parties and politics.

However that is just to satisfy my curious streak and I won't wish that on them or any party.

 

[Perspective]

New declaration of interest is in Bishan-Toa Payoh by SDA and RP (jointly). So far, no other party has indicated similar interest there.

SDP has. ..........

 

[Ramseth]

SDP has. ..........

When Chiam See Tong and Kenneth J. declared interest, I didn't hear any objection from SDP. All I heard was a barrage of noises about some ousters and hunger strikes from one and a dozen years ago.

 

[SDPhopelessParty]

CB must be SDP fuckers!!:oIo:

you are right, the cheebye party come out every general election n make opposition looks bad, sad.:

 

[Perspective]

When Chiam See Tong and Kenneth J. declared interest, I didn't hear any objection from SDP. All I heard was a barrage of noises about some ousters and hunger strikes from one and a dozen years ago.

I'm just curious as to how this "declared" is defined. By visiting or by openly declaring?

This is because CST and KJ did not declare but it was Sin Kek Tong (SPP chairman) who did. The two just visited recently. So has SDP some weeks back. Moreover, SDP visited after SKT made the declaration.

 

[Ramseth]

I'm just curious as to how this "declared" is defined. By visiting or by openly declaring?

This is because CST and KJ did not declare but it was Sin Kek Tong (SPP chairman) who did. The two just visited recently. So has SDP some weeks back. Moreover, SDP visited after SKT made the declaration.

I see. In that case, let them sort it out, since Bishan-Toa Payoh was uncontested by any party previously.

 

[SDPhopelessParty]

SDP should fuck off for good, they are doing a lot of damage to Opposition
I said long ago, that the Cheebye is most probably a spy send by the PAP to screw over the opposition. I still stand by that statement, how else do you think this guy is still hanging on?

 

[metalrover]

Based on GE2006,

Sembawang - Contested by SDP, below 25% votes, unlikely to see SDP contesting there this time, Bukit Panjang SMC is a likely target for SDP.
Ang Mo Kio - WP got a decent 33%, but declared won't be contesting again
Aljunied - Likely WP contesting, if it still exist.
East Coast - Contested by WP, got 31%, no idea if WP will contest again?
Tampines - Contested by SDA(include NSP), got 31 to 33%, NSP will likely contest there.
Jalan Besar -Contested by SDA(include NSP), got 31%, NSP likely to contest again
Pasir Ris-Punggol - Contested by SDA, got 31%, no idea SDA will contest again, since SDA-RP target Bishan-Toa Payoh

No signs of any 3 corner fights, still got Sembawang, Ang Mo Kio, Pasir Ris-Punggol no takers yet...

 

[jw5]

Yes, of course, 3 corner fights right now benefits nobody except PAP. But if all reasoning and common senses failed, so be it. I guess in politics, people will tend to believe they are the best people and no other people could be better than them. I guess only a multi-corner fight could give people the right sense of balance.

Goh Meng Seng

In a three corner fight, the results could be pap 51% party B 45% party C 4% and party C could still believe that they had the best candidates.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

In a three corner fight, the results could be pap 51% party B 45% party C 4% and party C could still believe that they had the best candidates.

Well, if this is the case, then there is no possibility of sending sound, rational, common sense and sanity into these people. There is no point talking sense to insane people. And of course, there is nothing we could do to prevent insane people from doing illogical things.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Perspective]

Well, if this is the case, then there is no possibility of sending sound, rational, common sense and sanity into these people. There is no point talking sense to insane people. And of course, there is nothing we could do to prevent insane people from doing illogical things.

Goh Meng Seng

I find some cases are easy and clear cut to determine which opposition has bigger legitimacy. For eg Potong Pasir and Hougang. Also wards that have been contested by a certain party. Any third party can be deemed as "insane" or close to it.

However some cases are not so clear cut. Eg wards that were walkover (including if one party declares first but one party has stronger candidates or declare later but put in more work). Wards that are newly created GRCs that came from 2 GRCs contested by 2 different parties previously. Wards contested by 2 parties in different election (including one case where opposition MP was voted out, changed party but did not contest anymore vs another opposition who contested there just the last round).

In this cases, does "insane" apply to the first instance only or both instances? If both, for the second instance, which can be defined as the one who is "insane"?

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

The context of insanity that I am talking about here, is about the recognition of results, not really about who choose where to stand.

JW5 said, even if a 3 corner fights result in one opposition A getting 45% while the other opposition B gets only 4%, B still claims that they are better, then obviously B is insane.

Goh Meng Seng

I find some cases are easy and clear cut to determine which opposition has bigger legitimacy. For eg Potong Pasir and Hougang. Also wards that have been contested by a certain party. Any third party can be deemed as "insane" or close to it.

However some cases are not so clear cut. Eg wards that were walkover (including if one party declares first but one party has stronger candidates or declare later but put in more work). Wards that are newly created GRCs that came from 2 GRCs contested by 2 different parties previously. Wards contested by 2 parties in different election (including one case where opposition MP was voted out, changed party but did not contest anymore vs another opposition who contested there just the last round).

In this cases, does "insane" apply to the first instance only or both instances? If both, for the second instance, which can be defined as the one who is "insane"?

 

[Perspective]

The context of insanity that I am talking about here, is about the recognition of results, not really about who choose where to stand.

JW5 said, even if a 3 corner fights result in one opposition A getting 45% while the other opposition B gets only 4%, B still claims that they are better, then obviously B is insane.

Goh Meng Seng

I see I see.

 

[Sideswipe]

we have 50% walkover seats and yet the oppositions are having 3 corner fights?
There are more than enough GRCs for all.

Holland-Bukit Timah GRC
Hong Kah GRC
Jurong GRC
West Coast GRC

all 4 GRC are in the west, nobody want?
IMO, Hong Kah and West Coast look weak.

 

[Perspective]

Based on GE2006,

Sembawang - Contested by SDP, below 25% votes, unlikely to see SDP contesting there this time, Bukit Panjang SMC is a likely target for SDP.
Ang Mo Kio - WP got a decent 33%, but declared won't be contesting again
Aljunied - Likely WP contesting, if it still exist.
East Coast - Contested by WP, got 31%, no idea if WP will contest again?
Tampines - Contested by SDA(include NSP), got 31 to 33%, NSP will likely contest there.
Jalan Besar -Contested by SDA(include NSP), got 31%, NSP likely to contest again
Pasir Ris-Punggol - Contested by SDA, got 31%, no idea SDA will contest again, since SDA-RP target Bishan-Toa Payoh

No signs of any 3 corner fights, still got Sembawang, Ang Mo Kio, Pasir Ris-Punggol no takers yet...

Excluding single wards:

NSP, the biggest opposition party, is going for Jurong, Tampines and Jalan Besar. Likely to have most candidates in the next GE.

My guess is, RP wants to take Hong Kah and Sembawang.

WP should stick to Aljunied and East Coast. Being a party that believes in boosting its backend, it won't be too ambitious with "many many candidates" type.

SDP / USD has enough (unbankrupted) members to form a GRC team, so should be Holland Bukit Timah.

SDA / SPP if combine with RP should have enough to take both Bishan-TP and Pasir Ris-Punggol.

So left Tanjong Pagar (Father), AMK (Son), Marine Parade (Holy Seat Warmer), and West Coast. Hopefully someone takes West Coast. SDP or WP will be a good choice since it has enough members to field one more GRC.

 

[kingrant]

Quite a novel creative idea! That way, if you do the same for the adjoining GRC, and you also "sapu" it, then you will have a full 5 men from each Opp to serve in 2 GRCs!

If 2 Opposition want to contest a same GRC, why cant you guys form a 50-50 split or rather like 5 person GRC, one group take 2 the other take 3, is that so difficult?

 

[Perspective]

Quite a novel creative idea! That way, if you do the same for the adjoining GRC, and you also "sapu" it, then you will have a full 5 men from each Opp to serve in 2 GRCs!

That requires some to switch parties, which very few opposition members want to.

 

[metalrover]

Excluding single wards:

NSP, the biggest opposition party, is going for Jurong, Tampines and Jalan Besar. Likely to have most candidates in the next GE.

My guess is, RP wants to take Hong Kah and Sembawang.

WP should stick to Aljunied and East Coast. Being a party that believes in boosting its backend, it won't be too ambitious with "many many candidates" type.

SDP / USD has enough (unbankrupted) members to form a GRC team, so should be Holland Bukit Timah.

SDA / SPP if combine with RP should have enough to take both Bishan-TP and Pasir Ris-Punggol.

So left Tanjong Pagar (Father), AMK (Son), Marine Parade (Holy Seat Warmer), and West Coast. Hopefully someone takes West Coast. SDP or WP will be a good choice since it has enough members to field one more GRC.

If this is the case, there seems to be more contested seats than in GE2006, where only 7 GRCs contested. Less walkovers.