Impressions of a Police Commissioner

[scroobal]

In early 1990, NUS academics questioned the quality of A Levels. The fact that many with As could not put out a coherent essay was alarming. Lets alone, those with B and C.

Ironically oxbridge practice of interviews which was panned for being subjective is now proving right albeit the legacy admissions practice.

A Levels is now a shitty criterion...even the S papers are quite shitty...i was recently chatting with an admissions tutor from oxford over the credibility of the A levels and she told me that nowadays because of this apparent cracking of the A Level 'code' more emphasis is placed on individual colleges' written papers and personal interviews

 

[SamuelStalin]

In early 1990, NUS academics questioned the quality of A Levels. The fact that many with As could not put out a coherent essay was alarming. Lets alone, those with B and C.

Ironically oxbridge practice of interviews which was panned for being subjective is now proving right albeit the legacy admissions practice.

This is nonsense. Get an A for GP and yet can't put out a coherent essay? Look at what you are saying again, you fat and dumb Sporn fuck.

 

[Lee Hsien Tau]

It was a personal career decision from what I hear. He had been appointed into some environmental council and thats how he met the Shell bigwigs who began rolling out a worldwide agenda on positive contribution to the environment. His resignation did catch his employers and colleagues by surprise.

The fact that he went to Shell would have pleased the old man. It will enhance his credibility and the PAP prefers to take outside their payroll to enhance theirs.

As to Felix, too much of negative history including his reckless allegation of marxists conspiracy involving the necessary stage which blew up in his face.

Felix Soh? Marxist conspiracy?

 

[sammymugabe]

You are probably right as Aubeck Kam has been absorbed into the Admin Service full time whilst Soh Kee Hean has been posted to CPIB. Lock was tested as the first head of ICA and then assumed the post of Director CID. All past CPs have served either as Director Ops or Director CID..( these are must postings ). They must also be AOs. Incidentally, the post of Chief of Staff ( last filled by SKH who is now mado watching at MHA ) is still vacant after he was posted out. GLK fumbled whilst at SBA and this destroyed his chance to be CP. A dark horse for CP is Wong Hong Kuan current Director OPs. A local police scholar he has leap-frogged over his seniors including some SPFOS such as Ng Joo Hee now Director of Prisons. There are many SACs now...unlike 3 years ago.

What happened to your prediction of dark horse for a farmer (local grad) Wong Hong Kuan "leapfrogging" over SPFOS which you specifically pointed to Ng Joo Hee?

Do you know who is the new CP is???

Oh another thing, what happened to your credible intel that to be CP, you must be have been Director of CID or Director of Ops? Ng was DD of CID but when he came Director of Prisons, you said he kena "leapfrogged" leh.

What about to your scroobal who said that you "know your stuff"?

http://www.prisons.gov.sg/downloads/20091118-Press Release.pdf

 

[yourdaddy]

bhoven, I noticed you also went deathly quiet after i sorta sexposed you about PS, SAFOS and OMS scholarships. The stats before 2008 were even funnier. In 2007 only 52 PSC scholarships were given out out of over 1700 applicants, but this figure includes the low rung SGS which took up more than half of this number hahaha.

The 2006 stats were perhaps the ones that made the rejectees angriest because that year 1720 applications from top students were received but PSC only gave out 39 scholarships- the lowest number of its history. SGS had been axed from 2002 onwards. Which means the actual number of SAFOS + SPFOS + OMS given out without SGS is really under 40 out of more than 2000 applications.

You have just confirmed what I said....there were more applicants in recent years because the number of students getting 4 straight As in the A levels increased...yet the PSC gave out less scholarships...what do you think is the reason?

No. of OMS was reduced in 2006 onwards, to lessen the gap of prestige between SAFOS and OMS.

OMS was never in the same league as SAFOS. All thru the 80s to the early 2000s, people recall and attach the SAFOS to the bumper crop of ministers. SAFOS typically do not number beyond 10, the highest in a long time was 11 in 1998, but that was an aberration. The most common number is between 5 and 7.

OMS however, numbered as many as 50 in the 90s and 2000s, typically more than 5 times as many. Compared to SAFOS, it is much easier to get an OMS.

The number of OMS given out was halved to close the gap between SAFOS and OMS. Not to mention the widely spread urban legend that to get an SAFOS, you need to get an OMS first. Now PSC wants people to know that SAFOS is regarded as an OMS + military component, and that it's not that far off from SAFOS.

BTW, the halving exercise of OMS was carried out swiftly in one year (2006), in which we saw the no. of OMS given out halved from the year before (2005), literally. It wasn't an incremental, gradual decline in standards as you claim. Your 'guess', which you obviously made from someone outside of the system, doesn't even make sense to the layman.

Since 2007, PSC has kept the no. of OMS steadily at about 30+, to keep it closer to SAFOS, while giving out a large number of the lower rung SGS. To do so, it cleverly resuscitated the SGS, which had been axed earlier. The total number of scholarships when you include the SGS, has actually grown.

This way, it can keep applicants happy, by putting out a bigger number of "total scholarships given out", and still narrow the gap between OMS and SAFOS.

Finally, in 2009, due to the overwhelming number and quality of applicants, PSC gave out a bumper crop of OMS.

 

[yourdaddy]

on the medicine president scholarship issue...if what you say is true, then i think the government/PSC should be transparent and upfront on this issue to the public...why waste taxpayers $$$ when the local medical fac is supposed to be a very good school...in any event why waste taxpayers $$$ on giving scholarships to scholars who wish to read medicine in the first place??

aiyah this old news...tony tan's son, patrick who was a PS went to harvard medical school donkey years ago with the tab picked up by tony...

but to me that is not the issue...i don't see why the tax payer should be paying $$$ to send scholars overseas for courses such as medicine and even law for that matter...graduate studies is perhaps ok but not at the undergrad level...and if they cannot attract the quality for these specific courses so be it...

Because the quality of local universities stink to high heavens?

People with shitty results like 4A only, easily got a place in the so-called most selective courses of local unis like med and law, and are rejected without even an interview with they apply to Oxford arts courses, NOT Oxford law. The top local 10 percentile of local uni med students are rejects of Cambridge med without even given the chance of an interview or even the dignity of a reply. The rest are worse losers, who would tell you they never applied. But of course they didn't apply because they WOULD NEVER get in. Just like how I'd never have applied to be an astronaut. But they'd shamelessly say "oh but i didn't apply at all leh, who says i want to go there? how you i won't get in?" fucking fools man.

And its very funny when you hear deluded local grads going on about how they know NUS grads who also got a place in prestigious schools like IC and LSE, when the courses in which they managed to get in are NOT THE SAME!! But this is an often-repeated joke in the circuit you'll hear from local grads, most of whom are deluded or/and gullible.

Martin Huang who got a place in NUS medicine said to the press that he could only qualify and managed to secure a place in Imperial College London Biology, and not IC's med faculty. The local med and law course, in terms of selectivity is at best, if really stretching it, the standard of IC and LSE's NOT med and law, but the generic science and arts courses there.

The selectivity of IC med is in itself extremely far-off from the selectivity of Oxon/Cantab.

NUS med can't even match up to IC's generic science department, and that's just about selectivity, we don't even need to get into the embarrassing (for all local universities) bit on international awards.

Shitty loser local unis every year take in 17,000 people when the A level cohort every year is only 13,000..how easy is to get in and I wonder where the 3 local dumpsters find the other 4,000 of junk to fill up the place, must be foreigners. I find it truly sad how there are fools in Singapore who think that it has the same selectivity or quality or prestige or reputation as a 3rd tier backbencher university in the west like Loughborough or University of Queensland.

Worse thing is nowadays students complain that they don't understand the lecturers' english since the non-local faculty members are PRC 3rd class leftovers who don't have elite Ivy League degrees of their own and rejected for teaching jobs in western universities.

 

[bhoven]

What happened to your prediction of dark horse for a farmer (local grad) Wong Hong Kuan "leapfrogging" over SPFOS which you specifically pointed to Ng Joo Hee?

Do you know who is the new CP is???

Oh another thing, what happened to your credible intel that to be CP, you must be have been Director of CID or Director of Ops? Ng was DD of CID but when he came Director of Prisons, you said he kena "leapfrogged" leh.

What about to your scroobal who said that you "know your stuff"?

http://www.prisons.gov.sg/downloads/20091118-Press Release.pdf

It is still early days for WHK ( btw he is a local police scholar not a farmer ). As for NJH's appointment as CP must concede that this was a surprise, even to those in the force given his past postings...you should read the other posts on him when the announcement was made. My point about future CPs having to serve a term as Director of either CID or OPs is not invalidated as NJH did serve as DD in CID.

 

[scroobal]

Don't bother, he still cannot comprehend what was written.

It is still early days for WHK ( btw he is a local police scholar not a farmer ). As for NJH's appointment as CP must concede that this was a surprise, even to those in the force given his past postings...you should read the other posts on him when the announcement was made. My point about future CPs having to serve a term as Director of either CID or OPs is not invalidated as NJH did serve as DD in CID.

 

[bhoven]

No. of OMS was reduced in 2006 onwards, to lessen the gap of prestige between SAFOS and OMS.

OMS was never in the same league as SAFOS....

Compared to SAFOS, it is much easier to get an OMS.

The number of OMS given out was halved to close the gap between SAFOS and OMS......

It wasn't an incremental, gradual decline in standards as you claim. Your 'guess', which you obviously made from someone outside of the system, doesn't even make sense to the layman.

Since 2007, PSC has kept the no. of OMS steadily at about 30+, to keep it closer to SAFOS, while giving out a large number of the lower rung SGS. To do so, it cleverly resuscitated the SGS, which had been axed earlier. The total number of scholarships when you include the SGS, has actually grown.

This way, it can keep applicants happy, by putting out a bigger number of "total scholarships given out", and still narrow the gap between OMS and SAFOS.

Finally, in 2009, due to the overwhelming number and quality of applicants, PSC gave out a bumper crop of OMS.

The reason for the large nos of OMS given out in 2009 was to meet the unexpectedly high attrition rate in the Admin Service ( scholars leaving before their bonds expire ) in the last three years and the larger number of Management Associates who were not confirmed as AOs after their 2 year trial period. As for the "higher quality" of applicants mentioned ( by the PSC? ), you need only look at the overseas IHLs that the successful scholars are able to gain admission too ( anecdotal though this evidence may be ). Of course the PSC can never admit that they have not been getting the "best and the brightest" in each cohort.

 

[pocoyo]

Many fellas in this thread seem to suggest that KBH is doing his job very well as a CP.

But does anyone notice that the turnover rate is getting higher and higher in the force since he take over the CP?

It also seems that nobody would want to join the police nowaday. Once they even lower down the entry requirement to N level from the usual O level.

Yet till now think they still have problem getting people to join them..

 

[scroobal]

I think only one chap thinks that. The rest think that he is a non-performer. Old man himself stated that 3 who failed the wrangler scheme in the SAF were posted to the Police. He is one of them.

The problem is that the Govt neglected SPF by not appointing good leaders in the first place. Can you imagine there are entire cohorts from Direct Entry Senior Officers' Course that are no longer serving. You are right about the attrition.

Many fellas in this thread seem to suggest that KBH is doing his job very well as a CP.

But does anyone notice that the turnover rate is getting higher and higher in the force since he take over the CP?

It also seems that nobody would want to join the police nowaday. Once they even lower down the entry requirement to N level from the usual O level.

Yet till now think they still have problem getting people to join them..

 

[cocobobo]

Many fellas in this thread seem to suggest that KBH is doing his job very well as a CP.

But does anyone notice that the turnover rate is getting higher and higher in the force since he take over the CP?

It also seems that nobody would want to join the police nowaday. Once they even lower down the entry requirement to N level from the usual O level.

Yet till now think they still have problem getting people to join them..

unlike you guys i am clueless about the high level shenanigans in spf, but as a lowly ranked reservist constable i can vouch for the above. 15 years ago in ns manpower was never an issue. my last reservist in dec (not that i do 15 cycles but i ponteng a lot) however, opened my eyes to how stretched they really are. imagine - i kanna do logsheet in frc...

 

[heartlander]

The reason for the large nos of OMS given out in 2009 was to meet the unexpectedly high attrition rate in the Admin Service ( scholars leaving before their bonds expire ) in the last three years and the larger number of Management Associates who were not confirmed as AOs after their 2 year trial period. As for the "higher quality" of applicants mentioned ( by the PSC? ), you need only look at the overseas IHLs that the successful scholars are able to gain admission too ( anecdotal though this evidence may be ). Of course the PSC can never admit that they have not been getting the "best and the brightest" in each cohort.

Really? Give me some evidence. A large number of scholars from this batch were SGS. Of course if you include these less bright people you cannot find good IHLs. There are many SAFOS, SPFOS and OMS who still go to HYPSM/Oxbridge without fail every single year.

 

[scroobal]

1) SAFOS was removed from the talent apex circa 1996. This was due to higher than expected failure rate over the years. One suicide, many below par performance and one celebrated case where the general was more scared of his wife. The pool became a common pool with SPFOS/OMS. This made sense as some of the best and brightest have no desire to be in uniform. That pretty much is common sense. Old man wanted SAFOS to be prestigious because of his 2 sons.

2) No of OMS was not reduced in 2006 to lessen the gap with SAFOS. Nothing to do with SAFOS. The scholars began to accumulate over the years at level 2 and 3. GLCs could no longer accommodate those with high pay and high rank without removing experienced incumbents. The capacity was full and many scholars were not prepared to work in overseas subsidiaries of GLC as they felt that they will be forgotten(they were right in this respect) . Circa mid 2000s, the policy was revised to offer early retirement from the 40s. Quite a number took it and quite a number forced out. Naturally OMS had to be cut down.

3) SAFOS was refocused to provide talent and leadership to SAF and the defence industry in the long run. Thus the number of SAFOS were not proportionately affected.

4) The current approach is similar to JIT, so do expect numbers to go up or down due to scenario planning and attrition.

95% of scholars in OMS/SAFOS/SPFOS have no clue how the systems work or the underlying philosophy or the policy changes over the years. They are not expected to. I know of one scholar who saw the payslip of his peer who went to the same school and resigned the next day and joined a bank. He was not aware of the many sub-schemes.

Life is such.

No. of OMS was reduced in 2006 onwards, to lessen the gap of prestige between SAFOS and OMS.

 

[bhoven]

Really? Give me some evidence. A large number of scholars from this batch were SGS. Of course if you include these less bright people you cannot find good IHLs. There are many SAFOS, SPFOS and OMS who still go to HYPSM/Oxbridge without fail every single year.

Re my point about the recent decline in the quality of applicants and the extra effort to attract suitably qualified candidiates, following excerpt from speech by PM at the SAFOS awards ceremony in 2008 says it all:

"Therefore, each year we need to find more outstanding young Singaporeans to take up the SAF Overseas Scholarship, serve in the SAF, and take on the responsibility for upholding and improving our system.



22 In this globalised environment where opportunities are aplenty, we must impress upon young people the importance of the SAF, and the challenge and satisfaction that an SAF career through the SAF Overseas Scholarship can offer. I know that the SAF has made a special effort to do this. I have discussed this with the MINDEF and SAF leadership, who fully share the sense of urgency of this task. I hope young people will respond, and so enable us to maintain and enhance the SAF and the security of our nation."

Incidentally, the larger no of OMS given out in 2009 was also because the intelligence agencies ( SID and ISD ) were allocated more scholars the year before in the wake of the terrorist threat.

 

[heartlander]

1) SAFOS was removed from the talent apex circa 1996. This was due to higher than expected failure rate over the years. One suicide, many below par performance and one celebrated case where the general was more scared of his wife. The pool became a common pool with SPFOS/OMS. This made sense as some of the best and brightest have no desire to be in uniform. That pretty much is common sense. Old man wanted SAFOS to be prestigious because of his 2 sons.

2) No of OMS was not reduced in 2006 to lessen the gap with SAFOS. Nothing to do with SAFOS. The scholars began to accumulate over the years at level 2 and 3. GLCs could no longer accommodate those with high pay and high rank without removing experienced incumbents. The capacity was full and many scholars were not prepared to work in overseas subsidiaries of GLC as they felt that they will be forgotten(they were right in this respect) . Circa mid 2000s, the policy was revised to offer early retirement from the 40s. Quite a number took it and quite a number forced out. Naturally OMS had to be cut down.

3) SAFOS was refocused to provide talent and leadership to SAF and the defence industry in the long run. Thus the number of SAFOS were not proportionately affected.

4) The current approach is similar to JIT, so do expect numbers to go up or down due to scenario planning and attrition.

95% of scholars in OMS/SAFOS/SPFOS have no clue how the systems work or the underlying philosophy or the policy changes over the years. They are not expected to. I know of one scholar who saw the payslip of his peer who went to the same school and resigned the next day and joined a bank. He was not aware of the many sub-schemes.

Life is such.

what is JIT?

 

[kingrant]

what is JIT?

Just-in-time?

 

[pocoyo]

unlike you guys i am clueless about the high level shenanigans in spf, but as a lowly ranked reservist constable i can vouch for the above. 15 years ago in ns manpower was never an issue. my last reservist in dec (not that i do 15 cycles but i ponteng a lot) however, opened my eyes to how stretched they really are. imagine - i kanna do logsheet in frc...

Reservist in 15 years is more than enough to see the change in the force.

Btw, u kena do logsheet in frc but some worst still kena duty in lockup in their 2 weeks call back.

Imagine u finish the 2 weeks tour and back to be a civilian and later u meet up some lockup imate or pai kiang in your neighbourhood hawker centre when you are with your wife and kids..it's very insensible for them to assign reservist to this kinda task..

 

[yourdaddy]

It is still early days for WHK ( btw he is a local police scholar not a farmer ). As for NJH's appointment as CP must concede that this was a surprise, even to those in the force given his past postings...you should read the other posts on him when the announcement was made. My point about future CPs having to serve a term as Director of either CID or OPs is not invalidated as NJH did serve as DD in CID.

Anyone on any form of sponsorship to a local university and all local grads are farmers in the system. If you do not know that, ...yes you are most definitely an outsider,

He was DD, not director, and you specifically said that a must-do tour is director. DD is not the same as Director, though it's quite high, but then again that totally depends on how young or old you reach DD and the size of the department.

I know a SAFOS who became DD of the most prestigious department in Mindef at the age of 31. Then there're farmers who get to be DD sure, but at 45. Is that the same? Of course not. LOL

 

[scroobal]

Your sentence structure and poor power of comprehension is no different to the nick "sammymugabe". Why the need to use 2 nicks. I doubt its giving any additional value.

There are preferred path but nothing is cast in stone. When previous CPs held the CID directors role, there was no DD post in existence. Since then there has been additional rank created, posts upgraded and new posts introduced. Like the SAF, the SPF has also seen downgrading as an organisation. The appt of Ng as CP is telling. His less than stellar quality is well known.

I suspect you are working as clerk or exec in a Govt HR dept but have little clue what the ranks, posts actually mean. You are not even aware that local qualified non scholars have held PPS and went on to become PS and this was not during WWII.

Anyone on any form of sponsorship to a local university and all local grads are farmers in the system. If you do not know that, ...yes you are most definitely an outsider,