What I like so much about Mr Goh is that he pulls no punches and speaks openly and honestly. It's a breath of fresh air. I wish all politicians could be like him.
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Workers Party - a National Movement
- Thread starter scroobal
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What I like so much about Mr Goh is that he pulls no punches and speaks openly and honestly. It's a breath of fresh air. I wish all politicians could be like him.
I'd rather have the haze. His fresh air contains more pollutants.
While you made good points, valid, so do others too, GMS, twp, screwboll etc - since this site is I believe is a 'democratic place, allowing free flow of discourse, in a way unrestricted. I do not claim any much better expertise than many here, but just a feedback for you to think about.
While you say some positive things on GMS, do not chose to be blind he also spouts nonsense, which he has a right to no doubt. We are not using a yardstick to say what GMS spew is smart or intelligent verbose, I mean we need to come to a general understanding - if 51% say that GMS spews nonsense, and 49% says not - where you stand? Still trumpeting his openness, honesty? Open and honest on what? A beggar can be entirely honest and open, if not how to beg, so do a prostitute who is EVEN more open if not how money gets in?
There will come a time, when visitors come and see 51% of nonsense from GMS, and the other one-sided writers, inevitably, people will be turned away, more and more and lesser new visitors will arrive on these shores because at the end, one do not get intelligently and critically educated except keep on reading 'open and honest argument' which perhaps you take no issue on in this website.
Have you ever thought of GMS-fatigue? WP bashing fatigue? Of course sane defence is that people will know how to distinguish what is sanity and what not - but this is not the point. People simply give up not wasting their time to contribute (by visiting, reading, writing) - nothing to do with distinguishing what is good, open, honest, intelligent etc etc. - if there is nothing to benefit by coming to Sammyboy and pay homage to Samleong. If Geylang becomes less a place to make money, prostitutes I believe will migrate to Desker road.
Hope you see my point - example I come here to read, and learn from TWP, Scroobal. Yes I do learn a lot from GMS too - but one day I have give upcoming here to come and constantly have to defend my senses, luckily unadulterated by GMS so far - this is my fatigue presently.
Thank you.
Both sides are expressing an opinion. I happen to be a fan of GMS since he first appeared in SCS almost 18 years ago.
If 51% says he spews nonsense, they are perfectly entitled to their views. However, I don't have to agree with them.
Perspectives: Goh Meng Seng
Mr Goh Meng Seng, NSP member and author of singaporealternatives.blogspot.com, was gracious enough to accede an interview with SG Review. Mr Goh aka MADCOW is probably Singapore's first cyber-celebrity, establishing himself first as a key figure in Internet circles, then standing for elections in the 2006 General Elections.
SGR: You're one of the very first if not the first Singaporean netizen who actually transited from cyberspace as madcow (??) in Sammyboy to real life as a politician. The fact that you came from the virtual to the real was cause for great fanfare. What brought on this transition?
Goh Meng Seng: I started out in cyberspace as far as 1991, way before internet was made available to the public in Singapore. That was the time where only tertiary institutions like NUS and NTU have the privilege to "test out" the new toy. I was active in the message board and subsequently, to newsgroups. My very first nick used was Vincent the BEast (inspired by movie "The Beauty and the Beast" ) and subsequently changed to MADCOW, a direct translation from my Hokkien slung nick "siaogu".
Anyway, that's just a little bit of history there. During the NUS days, discussions on message boards were pretty more serious although we still cannot avoid some mudslinging. In Singapore's context, FEAR is everywhere and our father's generation of active civil society was crushed by PAP's iron fist rule. The virtual cyber world provided a "false sense of security" to many of us who wanted to participate in policy discussions and occasional "whacking" the ruling party and university administration. I remembered we have initiated social-varsity movement, out of the main stream organizations, like anti-fee hike petition, EOGM on NUSSU President (ask Steve Chia and he will tell you that's when I met him for the first time!) and things like that. Forum or internet participation at that time, was an outlet of young idealism of actions. It is a "mutated" kind of civil activism. While some move forward to form the Round Table, Socratic Circle, join the PAP Pyramid Club and such, many like me still preferred to stay "un-associated" or "un-affiliated" with any organizations. FEAR was the factor. I was even told that my file in ISD is piling up!
Quality of discussion was very much better back then, most probably those involved have a certain educational background. As I see it, the Black September is just a natural process of civil activism via internet participation. It happened in my University days where people walk out from their anonymous nicks to fight for something that they think are unjust....i.e. University Fee Hike, restriction on dress codes..etc.
Walking into the era where internet access was made popular from 1995 onwards, we face another whole new world. However, the very same FEAR factor was there and yes, the most common comments on us were "keyboard critcs". 1997 GE changed a bit me back then. It was the year that Goh Chok Tong used the famous "stick and carrot" strategy of HDB upgrading. I was all fired up and protest violently against such IMMORAL election tactic, yes, through the newsgroup soc.culture.singapore. It is to me, the watershed GE which made me to come to one simple conclusion: either I stay and fight the PAP head on or I will just have to emigrate out for the sake of my children and future generations.
GE 2001 is the General Elections that breaksmy own FEAR. But it was also a time that I have to face my own FEAR in "direct confrontation". Most of us have tried very hard to avoid facing our very own FEAR directly. Most of the time, we just brush away any mention of the word FEAR. In view of the situation back GE 2001, opposition parties face a total collapse and risk losing their only two seats and Singapore will be back in total political darkness. It is under such circumstances that I have to reason and wrestle with my FEAR to make my very first move into politics. And of course, I beat my own FEAR and the rest is history...
Mr Goh Meng Seng, NSP member and author of singaporealternatives.blogspot.com, was gracious enough to accede an interview with SG Review. Mr Goh aka MADCOW is probably Singapore's first cyber-celebrity, establishing himself first as a key figure in Internet circles, then standing for elections in the 2006 General Elections.
SGR: You're one of the very first if not the first Singaporean netizen who actually transited from cyberspace as madcow (??) in Sammyboy to real life as a politician. The fact that you came from the virtual to the real was cause for great fanfare. What brought on this transition?
Goh Meng Seng: I started out in cyberspace as far as 1991, way before internet was made available to the public in Singapore. That was the time where only tertiary institutions like NUS and NTU have the privilege to "test out" the new toy. I was active in the message board and subsequently, to newsgroups. My very first nick used was Vincent the BEast (inspired by movie "The Beauty and the Beast" ) and subsequently changed to MADCOW, a direct translation from my Hokkien slung nick "siaogu".
Anyway, that's just a little bit of history there. During the NUS days, discussions on message boards were pretty more serious although we still cannot avoid some mudslinging. In Singapore's context, FEAR is everywhere and our father's generation of active civil society was crushed by PAP's iron fist rule. The virtual cyber world provided a "false sense of security" to many of us who wanted to participate in policy discussions and occasional "whacking" the ruling party and university administration. I remembered we have initiated social-varsity movement, out of the main stream organizations, like anti-fee hike petition, EOGM on NUSSU President (ask Steve Chia and he will tell you that's when I met him for the first time!) and things like that. Forum or internet participation at that time, was an outlet of young idealism of actions. It is a "mutated" kind of civil activism. While some move forward to form the Round Table, Socratic Circle, join the PAP Pyramid Club and such, many like me still preferred to stay "un-associated" or "un-affiliated" with any organizations. FEAR was the factor. I was even told that my file in ISD is piling up!
Quality of discussion was very much better back then, most probably those involved have a certain educational background. As I see it, the Black September is just a natural process of civil activism via internet participation. It happened in my University days where people walk out from their anonymous nicks to fight for something that they think are unjust....i.e. University Fee Hike, restriction on dress codes..etc.
Walking into the era where internet access was made popular from 1995 onwards, we face another whole new world. However, the very same FEAR factor was there and yes, the most common comments on us were "keyboard critcs". 1997 GE changed a bit me back then. It was the year that Goh Chok Tong used the famous "stick and carrot" strategy of HDB upgrading. I was all fired up and protest violently against such IMMORAL election tactic, yes, through the newsgroup soc.culture.singapore. It is to me, the watershed GE which made me to come to one simple conclusion: either I stay and fight the PAP head on or I will just have to emigrate out for the sake of my children and future generations.
GE 2001 is the General Elections that breaksmy own FEAR. But it was also a time that I have to face my own FEAR in "direct confrontation". Most of us have tried very hard to avoid facing our very own FEAR directly. Most of the time, we just brush away any mention of the word FEAR. In view of the situation back GE 2001, opposition parties face a total collapse and risk losing their only two seats and Singapore will be back in total political darkness. It is under such circumstances that I have to reason and wrestle with my FEAR to make my very first move into politics. And of course, I beat my own FEAR and the rest is history...
I don't see anything wrong with being reticent. It is borne out of necessity. Singapore political climate is such that if you go for visibility you are giving ammo to pap to attack. More importantly, you must remember the older generation does not like in-your-face approach. Like it or not, as an Asian society no matter whether you are Chinese malay or Indian the older generation regards deference to authority as something more or less ingrained. Which basically means those not in authority are expected to know their place. WP must be cognizant of this.
SDP has been going for the visibility approach but not yet translated that into votes. Unless it can, no reason for WP to change.
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Has GMS improved Singaporean politics
You hit the nail. Middle ground is key. As Locke was fond of saying, you sometimes even have to bite your tongue and support pap if the pap has done nothing wrong.
That culture is part of WP. Not opposing for the sake of opposing is on par with 10 commandments maybe even higher.
Last time a prominent WP personality took this culture a little too far, but fortunate he is no longer in the scene. Still the culture is deemed correct.
The reason why there will be no "ubah" so soon is because of demographics as aurvandil has pointed out. The pre 65 gen holds key to who gets to be govt of SG. Plus in ten years time new citizens will begin to start forming their own pro establishment power base. In 20 years at current trajectory they will be able to influence election outcomes.
I don't see how we can "ubah".
Also don't forget personality politics ... As wp or as a matter of fact sdp grows, they will be forced to expend exponentially more energy controlling party ranks. They do not have the means to keep the inner circle in line via GLC appts or coy directorships and other plumb contracts and lucrative biz arrangements unlike pap.
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