Serious Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's ego

[eatshitndie]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

no matter how powerful those filters are,they can only filter out 99,99 percent of the shit.without distillation,u are probably ingesting 10mg of shit with every 8 ounce serving of newater.it should be on the nutrition label how much shit we are drinking per 100ml.

i won't recommend it due to pharmaceutical impurities that cannot be r.o.-filtered out. i'm a long time user of distillation. i have 2 distillation systems producing 6 gallons of potable water per day for each system. i have to add drops of alkaline rebalancing agent to the water before use, and i measure the ph level with test strips. i'm basically a producer of my own potable water. no bottled water shit from the supermarket. after every distillation cycle (4 hours), the guck and deposits in the container can be clearer seen and i've posted the before and after pics in another thread. and that's from tap water, which is also ungodly chlorinated.

 

[nayr69sg]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

Singaporean should not fool themselves. Singapore's most important resource is not the people. It is money.

If the Singapore currency collapsed, that's the end of Singapore. Without money, there is no money to buy food. There is no money to buy energy (be it natural gas, petrol or oil). There is no money to buy water (as this thread shows, sometimes got money also cannot buy something).

This whole idea of Singapore "self sufficient" for water is rubbish. Without the high energy cost purification systems, there is no fresh water supply in Singapore that can meet the country's needs. Reverse osmosis is a very good water purification system however it consumes a lot of energy. Way too expensive and I bet the green energy people would frown on its use worldwide. Without the money to buy the energy to purify water from the sea or the toilet bowls - where is the water going to come from?

Realistically, the government knows this. The SAF only plans 7 day missions because they don't believe that the country would be able to hold out in a war lasting longer than that.

So as you can see, Singapore is a very vulnerable country. Without money it is finished. That's why the government places so much emphasis on the economy and money. Much more important than Singaporeans and the people. No money = no Singapore. No Singapore no need have Singaporeans liao.

Just look at air conditioning which is already so important in Singapore. Without the money to buy natural resources how to have aircon?



I laughed when i visited the Cloud Forest. In that area, there was one presentation that said the Cloud Forest is fully self sustainable. Really? How much electricity is spent on the air conditioning everyday? And it comes from? Solar?

Apparently not.

If you look at the above it all looks pretty impressive until you see the "electricity generated for site and conservatories". It is in RED.

I guess without airconditioning the cloud forest won't be such a enjoyable stroll eh?

Self sustainable my foot

 

[frenchbriefs]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

well thats not true,its only true that u need money to buy resources in order to support such a high density of population within such small confined space.to make things more efficient,everything is produced and manufactured overseas in cheaper places and exported to singapore,this is why our land and workforce has to be committed to the most economically productive and highest value added activities in a high economic activity city.


and also the labour and workforce has to be the cheapest,u need bangalas to sweep ur floor and clear the garbage for $600 a month,pinoy maids for $550 a month,construction workers to build ur hdbs and mrts for $2 an hour,cleaners and security guards for $800 a month,tiongs to drive ur buses and trains for $1200 a month and work in ur factories,bangalas to wash ur cars for $40 a month.in economics theres only a few factors and variables that can move around,u have the owners of capital,the owners of property and equipment and transportation and resources,and the human labour...since the cost of rental,residential or office or retail space cannot go down,must keep going higher,cost of car,vehicle transport,coe,erp cannot go down,must keep going up,cost of resources and importing these resources cannot go down,the only thing that can go down is the cost of labour.so humans and the workforce are the first thing to be exploited in singapore.thats why in uniquely singapore u see people drive BMW for 200k and have bangala wash their cars for $40 a month.cost of transportation is high,so cost of labour must be low.in other countries like america,people drive toyotas and tip the hobos $2 for washing their windows.


if our currency collapses its not the end,our property has value,our assets has value,our investments,stocks and bonds has value,the things we own has value,our companies have value,we might also have a basket of diversified assets such as gold,silver,foreign currencies like USD,GBP and Euros and foreign bonds.all these can be sold or liquidated for currency of value.....but of course if our currency were to collapse,it would be signs of deeper structural faults or systemic faults.our economy could have stalled or collapsed.jobless or unemployment rates could be skyhigh,our economy is no longer productive or we are no longer generating revenues or income from external trade or services.

i think singapore can be self sustainable if we reduce the population by a factor of five,with only 1 million people to support,there will be less strain on the system and the land and resources,we will have more room for high intensity farming and hydroponics farming,our reservoirs and desalination plants will be sufficient to cover our water needs,boosted by newater.our electricity can be generated by clean renewable sources since we no longer have to generate vast amounts of energy to support a high population density of 5.5 million people within 600 sqkm......of course the downside is singapore will not be as rich,our gdp per capital maybe only 20,000 USD.no more 300 billion super gdp economy,only small fishing village with one million people......but we can be the most advanced greenest high tech sustainable eco living green city with work life balance.

 

[scroobal]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

Yes, the newater launch was a disaster. They learnt their lessons. Now it is pumped into the reservoirs and treated like rain water. Some of it is piped to factories and commercial sector. Companies have also started doing piping for newater for industrial use as it is cheaper.

You are right. They going to let the agreement run its course. Singapore since the 80s have slowly ratcheted up the price of water and have also included taxes so it actually priced higher than desalination cost plus infrastructure maintenance for the entire water programme including building massive caverns for catchment and storage. By 2061, it is expected to be price neutral.

It will always be difficult to for both the tigers to agree.

yes you are right. The whole story is this. Mahathir wanted 30 sens but old man wanted alot of conditions attached like trade in railway land etc and package this and that condition till mahathir got fed up and put it on hold. Meanwhile he went to HK, China and shenzhen. In HK he ask the HK garmen how much they paid for the water which like singapore was imported from shenzhen. His jaw drop when the HK and China people told him shenzhen sold the same singapore 3cts per thousand gallons equivalent for a equivalent of RM$8 ie china sold the same volume to its own people in HK for almost 300 times more. and here you are talking about buying from another country. mahathir got so fedup when he realised the real value of water that he ask his guys to stop all negotiations and let all existing treaties run its course and not renew. thats the whole story of how newater came. otehr details too sensitive to talk,

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

according to this article above, the daily usage of water in singapore is 430 MGD (Million gallon per day)

The article says that Johor water accounts for half of this. So, that is 215 MGD
The total capacity of all 4 Newater plants in singapore is only 20 MGD, so that means that 215 - 20 = 195 MGD must be produced by desalination.

According to the cost that was stated in the article, production costs given these rough numbers are:

215 MGD of Johore water at .2 Kwh X 25.6 cents per Kwh = $11.008 million per day spend on Malaysian water
20 MGD of Newater at 1 Kwh X 25.6 cents per Kwh = $5.12 million per day spend on Newater
195 MGD of desalinization water at 3.5 Kwh X 25.6 cents per KWh = $174.72 million on desalinized water.

Total approximate costs of water usage per day = $11.08 + $5.12 + $174.72 million = $190.92 million per day
$190.92 million per day X 365 days = $69.685 billion per year!!

This is money that we we have to spend to buy energy to power these Newater and desalination plants, as well as labour, maintenance and other expenses associated with running these plants. These monies go to a foreign energy or oil company's pockets and we never see it again. It has no benefit to singapore. It is money that is lost forever.

this is the price of LKY's bloody ego.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

The biggest joke is not only is it expensive to do NEWater. But many factories have installed separate pipping system to use NEWater. And get this, it's used to water landscape, toilets and other industrial use! Crazy! It would be much easier and cheaper to use normal tap water! But everyone was told to support NEWater and everyone Kwai Kwai obeyed. But we all assumed NEWater will be cheaper ...Guess we got fooled!

Another fantastic policy by the "not the smartest guys in the room" crowd. that is why I never respect the PAP, they really have shit for brains. Why are people intimidated by these morons?

 

[mojito]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

according to this article above, the daily usage of water in singapore is 430 MGD (Million gallon per day)

The article says that Johor water accounts for half of this. So, that is 215 MGD
The total capacity of all 4 Newater plants in singapore is only 20 MGD, so that means that 215 - 20 = 195 MGD must be produced by desalination.

According to the cost that was stated in the article, production costs given these rough numbers are:

215 MGD of Johore water at .2 Kwh X 25.6 cents per Kwh = $11.008 million per day spend on Malaysian water
20 MGD of Newater at 1 Kwh X 25.6 cents per Kwh = $5.12 million per day spend on Newater
195 MGD of desalinization water at 3.5 Kwh X 25.6 cents per KWh = $174.72 million on desalinized water.

Total approximate costs of water usage per day = $11.08 + $5.12 + $174.72 million = $190.92 million per day
$190.92 million per day X 365 days = $69.685 billion per year!!

This is money that we we have to spend to buy energy to power these Newater and desalination plants, as well as labour, maintenance and other expenses associated with running these plants. These monies go to a foreign energy or oil company's pockets and we never see it again. It has no benefit to singapore. It is money that is lost forever.

this is the price of LKY's bloody ego.

A safe and secure Singapore. Can you put a price on that?

 

[frenchbriefs]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

according to this article above, the daily usage of water in singapore is 430 MGD (Million gallon per day)

The article says that Johor water accounts for half of this. So, that is 215 MGD
The total capacity of all 4 Newater plants in singapore is only 20 MGD, so that means that 215 - 20 = 195 MGD must be produced by desalination.

According to the cost that was stated in the article, production costs given these rough numbers are:

215 MGD of Johore water at .2 Kwh X 25.6 cents per Kwh = $11.008 million per day spend on Malaysian water
20 MGD of Newater at 1 Kwh X 25.6 cents per Kwh = $5.12 million per day spend on Newater
195 MGD of desalinization water at 3.5 Kwh X 25.6 cents per KWh = $174.72 million on desalinized water.

Total approximate costs of water usage per day = $11.08 + $5.12 + $174.72 million = $190.92 million per day
$190.92 million per day X 365 days = $69.685 billion per year!!

This is money that we we have to spend to buy energy to power these Newater and desalination plants, as well as labour, maintenance and other expenses associated with running these plants. These monies go to a foreign energy or oil company's pockets and we never see it again. It has no benefit to singapore. It is money that is lost forever.

this is the price of LKY's bloody ego.

huh....i thought they say newater accounts for 30 percent of our daily water consumption and desalination 10 percent,reserviours 10 percent and imported water 50 percent.

and ur calculations are for 1 cubic meter of water,1 cubic meter of water cost 87 cents to desalinate,the water tarrifs is $1.12 per cubic meter of water.1 cubic meter of water = 264 gallons.so roughly we are spending 130k a day to desalinate 30 MGD of water,130k is a long way off from 174 million a day.

since newater cost roughly 3.5 times less and we produce about 100 MGD a day of water from Newater,the cost is also about 130k a day,the cost of purifying 200 MGD of imported water is about 50k a day,130k times 2 divided by 5......the other 10 percent comes from reserviours,so roughly we spend about 310k a day on our water needs not $190 million.

think about it for a second,if it cost 190 million a day to fulfill our water needs,that is more expensive than crude oil.even crude oil only cost $47 a barrel now,i suggest we drink and bathe crude oil instead.66 billion a year is more than the GDP of oil rich countries like brunei darussalam.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

It will definitely be cheaper to buy water from Johor than to rely on Newater and desalination. However, we do need to have contingency plans in case Malaysia tears up the water treaties. From time to time, their politicians have threatened to renege on the water treaties in order to make their own country look more Islamic. We cannot depend on other people's promises for our own security. Just look at Ukraine, which trusted both Russia and NATO to protect it once it dismantled its nukes.

Yes we did, but the PAP fucked it up some how. remember the water pipeline they were supposed to build fro the Riau islands, part of which was supposed to be underwater. What happened to that? Pissed off the Indons about the dirty money the corrupt Indons were hiding in Singapore?

If you keep a good relationship with malaysia, this problem will not arise. But the idiots at PAP and their ego fucked up the relationship big time. Its better to negotiate a new water treaty with Najib now. he can be bought, as we all know. I think $100million into his personal account should get us a new water treaty. we are pissing away more then that every day making newater and desalinized water.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

huh....i thought they say newater accounts for 30 percent of our daily water consumption and desalination 10 percent,reserviours 10 percent and imported water 50 percent.

When I googled newater, it said that there were 4 active plants. One in seletar started up in 2004 closed down long ago. (I wonder how many hundreds of millions $ they pissed away on that plant). The total capacity of the 4 plants when I googled it was 20 MGD or less then 5% of the daily 430 MGD used. U can confirm it yourself.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

A safe and secure Singapore. Can you put a price on that?

Safe and secure simi lancheow? We can't even secure the cleanliness of our air. Every year got to breath in ashes from Indonesia for months on end.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

It will definitely be cheaper to buy water from Johor than to rely on Newater and desalination. However, we do need to have contingency plans in case Malaysia tears up the water treaties. From time to time, their politicians have threatened to renege on the water treaties in order to make their own country look more Islamic. We cannot depend on other people's promises for our own security. Just look at Ukraine, which trusted both Russia and NATO to protect it once it dismantled its nukes.

If you kick out the 3 million FTs here, there is your water security right there. The remaining population of sinkies can survive on Newater and Desalinated water by itself. The only reason we are using 430 MGD is because we have a population close to 6 million now, instead of 3 million sinkies.

 

[ginfreely]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

If you kick out the 3 million FTs here, there is your water security right there. The remaining population of sinkies can survive on Newater and Desalinated water by itself. The only reason we are using 430 MGD is because we have a population close to 6 million now, instead of 3 million sinkies.

This is true. There are so big proportion of foreigners now that it becomes foreigners are serving foreigners at work or at play and taking up consumption of water and everything else.

 

[ginfreely]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

huh....i thought they say newater accounts for 30 percent of our daily water consumption and desalination 10 percent,reserviours 10 percent and imported water 50 percent.

and ur calculations are for 1 cubic meter of water,1 cubic meter of water cost 87 cents to desalinate,the water tarrifs is $1.12 per cubic meter of water.1 cubic meter of water = 264 gallons.so roughly we are spending 130k a day to desalinate 30 MGD of water,130k is a long way off from 174 million a day.

since newater cost roughly 3.5 times less and we produce about 100 MGD a day of water from Newater,the cost is also about 130k a day,the cost of purifying 200 MGD of imported water is about 50k a day,130k times 2 divided by 5......the other 10 percent comes from reserviours,so roughly we spend about 310k a day on our water needs not $190 million.

Yes I remember reading before newater cost less than desalination so the proportion of desalination water at 10% and newater at 30% seems more reasonable.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

it's like cutting off one's nose to spite your enemy. Costs is one thing but health is even more important. drinking newater is like drinking piss mixed with shit. you forgot one important aspect. they tried bottling it like mineral water and get NTUC to sell it (the most audacious and idiotic idea from some PUB moron) but no takers. millions of bottles were given out to school children to drink but it failed so miserably that overnight the botlling plant has to close. to save face they dump millions of gallons into reservoir every day and then said the project was a success. what a joke.

Wish Factwire was around at that time to take pictures of the idiots closing down the plant. U talking about Seletar? I wonder how much money they spend to open that plant.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

yes you are right. The whole story is this. Mahathir wanted 30 sens but old man wanted alot of conditions attached like trade in railway land etc and package this and that condition till mahathir got fed up and put it on hold. Meanwhile he went to HK, China and shenzhen. In HK he ask the HK garmen how much they paid for the water which like singapore was imported from shenzhen. His jaw drop when the HK and China people told him shenzhen sold the same singapore 3cts per thousand gallons equivalent for a equivalent of RM$8 ie china sold the same volume to its own people in HK for almost 300 times more. and here you are talking about buying from another country. mahathir got so fedup when he realised the real value of water that he ask his guys to stop all negotiations and let all existing treaties run its course and not renew. thats the whole story of how newater came. otehr details too sensitive to talk,

So, in other words, Old Fart Lee Con You fucked it up? If he did not attached all those conditions and pissed off mahathir, we would have had a new water deal while the iron was hot?

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

I thought Gecko wrote the water treaty?

Water treaty negotiated by the brits before they left.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

that's a brilliant move by old man.
why?
old man forsee that if the $$ was loaned to Malaysian, DR mat will have the ability to recover very fast and become another competitors of SG.
why old man willing to loan to indo?
he forsee $$ lend to them will not bring them any way out.in fact they will be in bigger debt. when they cant pay up, old man will ask them to sell their grantie and sand as part of repayng back.
when we have lot of sand and grantie, we can reclaim bigger land, build 2 more jurong island,2 more changi and this in term can our to bloom.

get your facts straight, the sand mostly came from malaysia, its much closer then going to Indonesia to get it. And most of it was illegally obtained and smuggled to begin with.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Singapore-accused-of-launching-Sand-Wars.html

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

You really think the President's scholars, PSC scholars, Colombo Plan scholars, SAF scholars hadn't thought about the so-called thorium molten salt reactor?

No offense but you really think you're the first to suggest it when your Prime Ministar himself is a President's Scholar, his brother and sister too and his gabrament is staffed with lots of their ilk and hadn't thought of it??

i can safely tell you they have not thought of it on account of that they are stupid.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Water Treaty Malaysia: The tremendous financial costs imposed on S'pore by LKY's

@ Papsmearer

Please don't take it the wrong way but what's your point in posting this thread?

In the most recent General Elections, 69.9% of Sinkies voted to have PAP (mis)lead them. NEWater wasn't an issue then. Even if it'd been, your Prime Ministar would still garner 69.9% of the votes.

If you don't like to be screwed over and over by Chief Natural Aristocrat, emigrate and give up your Stinkie citizenship. Thousands of ex-Sinkies have gone before you and done it and they're still alive and well. I'm living proof.

Firstly, why should i give up my citizen ship and leave? Over the PAP? They are not worth the dogshit on the grass. Give my citizenship up for these fucks? I was born, and raised here. Its they that should be leaving the country because they fucked it up. Not me. When l leave, it will be for other reasons like retirement or marriage to a foreign citizen or something like that. Not because of the PAP.

I have posted a similar thread before in which the cost of production was not known at that time. It was 6 years ago.

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?59383-Will-NEWATER-and-Desalination-Bankrupt-S-pore

So, I do have an interest in this topic. Also, you can note my nick. i am here to smear the PAP's fake and falsified good reputation and to smear their propaganda such as this news article saying we will never go thirsty. But at what cost?