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View from the other side - Jakarta Post on the warship naming issue

3_M

Alfrescian
Loyal
Also not forgetting it's Indon's election year... just pray the generals won't whip up a nationalist/religious frenzy like the m&ds did across the causeway in 1986...

It hard for any leader to compromise as no one wants to appear weak and soft. If public opinion view us unfavorably, we are only presenting ourselves as whipping boys for their politicians during election.

PAP had chosen the most tactless and abrasive approach on the issue. The same old shit happen during 1995 when we hung a Pinoy maid near their election period. If PAP have some sense of political acumen, they would have postpone the execution after their election.
 

Rogue Trader

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
It hard for any leader to compromise as no one wants to appear weak and soft. If public opinion view us unfavorably, we are only presenting ourselves as whipping boys for their politicians during election.

PAP had chosen the most tactless and abrasive approach on the issue. The same old shit happen during 1995 when we hung a Pinoy maid near their election period. If PAP have some sense of political acumen, they would have postpone the execution after their election.

Yeah... during the mid 90s sinkieland was damn yaya.... even Bill Clinton also not scared and we went ahead with caning Michael Faye's kar chng. Looking back, that was the last time this country had some dignity.
 

winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Chan: Important to have open dialogues among nations



February 10th, 2014

Major-General (NS) Chan Chun Sing, Second Minister for Defense: "I suggest we interact boldly, dialogue openly, network assiduously and train together professionally."

Speaking at the opening of the 7th Asia Pacific Security Conference held at the Raffles City Convention Centre today (10 Feb), Second Minister for Defense Chan Chun Sing advised defense and security professionals around the globe to “build trust and cultivate habits of working together towards common goals at the military-to-military level.”

He said, “I suggest we interact boldly, dialogue openly, network assiduously and train together professionally.”




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



So this CB kia paper general has begun to blink!

Yesterday he was talking so fucking tough and went about to cancel schedule meetings with the Indonesians and invitations to airshow and today he has got his tail in between his legs!

Kee Chiu is now back pedalling ..will Ah Loon slap him for being so moronic?
 

winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Seriously, as much as i label the the 2 indon as spies and deserved to be executed for their deeds, i dun really care how and wat TNI names its warship. It just like the koreans and chinese built an memorial for the korean patriot who murder the jap ex PM.

The whole issue now is only being push by certain member of the cabinet, the keling in charge of MFA is very quiet over the whole issue. It only the two ex generals kpkb in their facebook and cancel meeting like small kids. Look like the cabinet didnt really discuss aboutnit before making noises by the two greenhorns. If they(pap) is using the issue to promote unity among citizens, then they are playing with fire. All along spore is using the south to counter balance against the north, so now burn bridges on both side, they really think life too easily, so need some excitments.

Those two goondus are trying to get notice ...bad publicity. Ah Loon should slap them publicly.
 

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
This case means nothing to me. I have no relation to any of those who were hurt at the time it happened, neither do I care for the soldiers who were hung for their deeds. I just happen to have The Jakarta Post in my internet listing and read it. Thought I'd post another view in here. I myself carry no views on what Indonesia wants to name their war vessels.

Just a thought crossed my mind - this act (of bombing) was carried out during Konfrontasi. If so, it was President Sukarno who was top dog in Indonesia. Suharto came into power when? 1968? Were these soldiers still alive or hung yet? Was any consideration given to return them to Indonesia after Suharto came into power considering that the act was done under orders by a different regime? Its all in the past now, but could anything be done to alleviate things when Suharto became president?

Cheers!

WHAT THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA MAY NOT HAVE PROVIDED TO THE PUBLIC

Background Story: DPM TEO, SHANMUGAM AND NG ENG HEN URGE INDONESIA TO RECONSIDER NAVY SHIP NAME
So Indonesia has decided to name a naval ship after the two Marines convicted of bombing the McDonald's House in 1965, during Indonesia's confrontation with the Federation of Malaysia.
What is missing from the mainstream media reports is an important detail: on 9 October 1968, Singapore informed the Indonesian Embassy that the two men, Osman Haji Mohammed Ali and Harun Said, were scheduled to be executed in around a week's time. On 11 October 1968, President Suharto made a personal request that the sentence either be commuted to life imprisonment or for it to at least be delayed. Even Tunku Abdul Rahman and Tun Abdul Razak sent in supporting appeals.
(Why this request for clemency? After Suharto seized power in 1967, his aim was to rebuild Indonesia from what he deemed as the excesses of the Sukarno years, which included a seemingly belligerent foreign policy. In some ways, the Marines were seen as people who were loyal to the nation, but 'misguided' by Sukarno's 'folly'. To be able to gain amnesty for the Marines would bolster Suharto's domestic popularity--as someone who had managed to secure Singapore's goodwill and who literally saved Indonesian lives abroad.)
However, Singapore went ahead to execute the two Marines on 18 October 1968. We know the story: the Singapore government, as insecure as always, did not want to seem to be 'bullied' or 'intimidated' by big powers.
Suharto lost his standing among his people. Protests were held, and the Singapore embassy in Jakarta was stormed. As a major face-saving measure, the President declared the Marines national heroes and awarded them the Bintang Sakti, the highest military decoration. They were then buried at the Heroes' Cemetery in Kalibata.
The big what-if: if Singapore had entertained the request for clemency, would the two Marines have been hailed as heroes? Especially since they were Sukarno's soldiers, not Suharto's? Would they have served out their life sentences quietly and into obscurity? We'll never know. What we do know is that this denial of amnesty set off a chain of events leading up to the names 'Osman Harun' now chosen for a naval ship.
The mainstream media should stop perpetuating this absurd notion that the men were considered heroes for wanting to blow up civilians. Heroic martyrdom was foisted on them because Singapore refused to accommodate and ended up making Suharto look impotent. It is hypocritical for the Singapore media to claim that Indonesia's naming of the naval ship is an act of 'unfriendliness' or 'insensitivity'. The Indonesians can always claim it as an act of sovereignty, the same kind of sovereignty the Singapore government chose to exercise when it hung the two men in 1968.
 

butoh6050

Alfrescian
Loyal
Now we can see why defense budget need to be high. If not the next volley will be a threats to attack us if we dint keep quiet.

If ever war breaks out and singapore is attacked, we will surrender within an hour.
why? Singapore is too small to have any ground war. Forget abt ah boys to men.
A missile fired from indonesia will drop in the centre of singapore creating mass chaos plus factor in the number of reservist going awol.
 

winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If ever war breaks out and singapore is attacked, we will surrender within an hour.
why? Singapore is too small to have any ground war. Forget abt ah boys to men.
A missile fired from indonesia will drop in the centre of singapore creating mass chaos plus factor in the number of reservist going awol.

Sinkapore is nobody to the other countires, yet it pretends that is highly regarded.
The PAP's true defence policy is to flood sinkapore with foreigners, especially the rich, so that there will be no surprise attack from Indons or Mudland. If an attack is imminent, the PAP elites will run road together with the foreigners.
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If ever war breaks out and singapore is attacked, we will surrender within an hour.
why? Singapore is too small to have any ground war. Forget abt ah boys to men.
A missile fired from indonesia will drop in the centre of singapore creating mass chaos plus factor in the number of reservist going awol.

thousands of boats, sampans and fishing trawlers cramped with "refugees" aiming simultaneously for sg shores are enough to render sg defenseless and helpless. what can sg do? sink all of them like in an arcade game? no small cuntry with a coastline or island-state of this tiny size can handle a non-military "message storm" of this magnitude. :rolleyes:
 

Seee3

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Biggest problem with them is the inability to "give face" appropriately. He thinks it is "principle" and "standing your ground". However, I call it not street smart. Anyway I think this current issue is only a wayang. Indo can just turn off gas supply - their biggest hold on us.

WHAT THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA MAY NOT HAVE PROVIDED TO THE PUBLIC

Background Story: DPM TEO, SHANMUGAM AND NG ENG HEN URGE INDONESIA TO RECONSIDER NAVY SHIP NAME
So Indonesia has decided to name a naval ship after the two Marines convicted of bombing the McDonald's House in 1965, during Indonesia's confrontation with the Federation of Malaysia.
What is missing from the mainstream media reports is an important detail: on 9 October 1968, Singapore informed the Indonesian Embassy that the two men, Osman Haji Mohammed Ali and Harun Said, were scheduled to be executed in around a week's time. On 11 October 1968, President Suharto made a personal request that the sentence either be commuted to life imprisonment or for it to at least be delayed. Even Tunku Abdul Rahman and Tun Abdul Razak sent in supporting appeals.
(Why this request for clemency? After Suharto seized power in 1967, his aim was to rebuild Indonesia from what he deemed as the excesses of the Sukarno years, which included a seemingly belligerent foreign policy. In some ways, the Marines were seen as people who were loyal to the nation, but 'misguided' by Sukarno's 'folly'. To be able to gain amnesty for the Marines would bolster Suharto's domestic popularity--as someone who had managed to secure Singapore's goodwill and who literally saved Indonesian lives abroad.)
However, Singapore went ahead to execute the two Marines on 18 October 1968. We know the story: the Singapore government, as insecure as always, did not want to seem to be 'bullied' or 'intimidated' by big powers.
Suharto lost his standing among his people. Protests were held, and the Singapore embassy in Jakarta was stormed. As a major face-saving measure, the President declared the Marines national heroes and awarded them the Bintang Sakti, the highest military decoration. They were then buried at the Heroes' Cemetery in Kalibata.
The big what-if: if Singapore had entertained the request for clemency, would the two Marines have been hailed as heroes? Especially since they were Sukarno's soldiers, not Suharto's? Would they have served out their life sentences quietly and into obscurity? We'll never know. What we do know is that this denial of amnesty set off a chain of events leading up to the names 'Osman Harun' now chosen for a naval ship.
The mainstream media should stop perpetuating this absurd notion that the men were considered heroes for wanting to blow up civilians. Heroic martyrdom was foisted on them because Singapore refused to accommodate and ended up making Suharto look impotent. It is hypocritical for the Singapore media to claim that Indonesia's naming of the naval ship is an act of 'unfriendliness' or 'insensitivity'. The Indonesians can always claim it as an act of sovereignty, the same kind of sovereignty the Singapore government chose to exercise when it hung the two men in 1968.
 

Narong Wongwan

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Anything that is done to fuck the Stinkapore PAP regime or to make those PAP fuckturds unhappy is good with me.
I am very happy that Stinkapore PAP bastards are unhappy as those PAP bastards do not represent me and they stolen my country
and brought in foreign trash as 3rd class citizens displacing singaporeans into the 4th class dwellers in country stolen from us.

I BE VERY HAPPY IF STINKAPORE PAP DECLARE WAR AS THEN I CAN GET TO MY GUN AND TURN THAT ON PAP FUCKTURDS AND THEIR RUNNING DOGS

Escher you are spot on!
Like you I am quietly enjoying the sideshow....anything against pap is good.
Dun let the vile pappies distract us with misplaced patriotism....
This whole episode is saving face exercise for lky....and they are cocking it up royally....obigood!
 

Narong Wongwan

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If ever war breaks out and singapore is attacked, we will surrender within an hour.
why? Singapore is too small to have any ground war. Forget abt ah boys to men.
A missile fired from indonesia will drop in the centre of singapore creating mass chaos plus factor in the number of reservist going awol.
No need an hour la....
Those paper generals will run road with their millions....those stupid enough to stay will kena friendly fire to back of their heads.
 

THE_CHANSTER

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If ever war breaks out and singapore is attacked, we will surrender within an hour.
why? Singapore is too small to have any ground war. Forget abt ah boys to men.
A missile fired from indonesia will drop in the centre of singapore creating mass chaos plus factor in the number of reservist going awol.

Anyone who has visited Indonesia will know how seriously they take their national defence. A lot of buildings are allocated to the Military including several Commando Units stationed in Central Jakarta. As another forumer has mentioned in another thread, the Indonesian Military have made their mark in conflicts in East Timor and Papua and are therefore no strangers to bloodshed.

If, in the unlikely event, that it ever did come down to military conflict and irrespective of Singapore's 'state of the art' military hardware, a country of 5m has no chance against one that has 250m.
One of the positives for us is that there's a lot of Indonesian 'ill-gotten gains' parked up in Singapore banks and real estate investments which they are happy to keep off-shore to evade tax.
 

steffychun

Alfrescian
Loyal
Anyone who has visited Indonesia will know how seriously they take their national defence. A lot of buildings are allocated to the Military including several Commando Units stationed in Central Jakarta. As another forumer has mentioned in another thread, the Indonesian Military have made their mark in conflicts in East Timor and Papua and are therefore no strangers to bloodshed.

If, in the unlikely event, that it ever did come down to military conflict and irrespective of Singapore's 'state of the art' military hardware, a country of 5m has no chance against one that has 250m.
One of the positives for us is that there's a lot of Indonesian 'ill-gotten gains' parked up in Singapore banks and real estate investments which they are happy to keep off-shore to evade tax.

Indonesians know finance. They have experienced the worst and best of financial systems so them withdrawing their money from Singapore will be ease for them.
 

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If ever war breaks out and singapore is attacked, we will surrender within an hour.
why? Singapore is too small to have any ground war. Forget abt ah boys to men.
A missile fired from indonesia will drop in the centre of singapore creating mass chaos plus factor in the number of reservist going awol.

Assuming that your "theory" and speculation may be logical, with respect, I do not believe that many of the reservists / NSF will go AWOL.
 

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Biggest problem with them is the inability to "give face" appropriately. He thinks it is "principle" and "standing your ground". However, I call it not street smart. Anyway I think this current issue is only a wayang. Indo can just turn off gas supply - their biggest hold on us.

Although I was too young to remember the events from the 1960's, with respect, sometimes, acceding to the Indonesian's request at that time, and return the two Indonesian Marines to Indonesia may win more points and goodwill, than executing them. There as nothing to gain from executing the two Indonesian Marines.

I also believe that the current "protest" against their naming of the navy ship, is unnecessary.
 

batman1

Alfrescian
Loyal
Look at the paper general boy scout Chan Chun Seng talking,not worth for us reservists /NSF to die for these corrupt MIW .NEVER .
 
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