• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

TOC Gazetting - The Reason

Once he thought he can score with a female reporter who interviewed him. So happy that he brag about it in the forum. Turns out not only did he fail to even snitch a date with the reporter, the reporter couldn't even be bothered to publish his statements. :eek::eek::eek:

Hey man

Disagreement aside, i think this is getting personal to put up someone name and personal activities here.

Lets just stick to the discussion and not get carried away ok?

Cleareyes, thanks and it's alright. Just set the record straight.

TFBH, correction.

1. She did publish my statements.

2. I didn't brag about it; someone else happened to read ST and posted it here.

3. I don't care whom you date; you should care for yourself.
 
TFBH, correction.

1. She did publish my statements.

npnt2rg.jpg
 
I do not know Choo's history, but Andrew or PMonkey was "Idiotwind" in the now-defunct Young PAP forum and Sintercom forum. No PAP affiliate but a fair-minded government critic (fair-minded means unlike those Uncle Yap types). His temper got the better of him when he showed rare support for the government on an issue (can't remember what it was) and was bombarded in SBF. Then thereafter became a "PAP voice" to provoke those who had bombarded him.

This isn't a new phenomenon. There are people who retaliate that way. One was Edmund Chia in 1997 when he was bombarded over one issue, leading him to become a "PAP voice" for this sake but remaining where he is. I think some PAP critics have also been called "PAP dogs" when they support the PAP on just one issue, but some can take it.

I have reiterated this historical part before because I knew Idiotwind even longer than people knew PMonkey. But there are people just wanting to believe what they want to believe in.
 
Even if Pmonkey was a PAP supporter, so what? TOC is not marketing as a pure opposition blog. It is marketed as a socio-political site, non-partisan.

Pmonkey the nick in the old SBF was quite emotional/reactive to certain types of criticisms, but it would not fair to say he chose the PAP side purely as a result of being prodded in the wrong area. I think he did genuinely believe PAP did some good in some respects.

TOC's attention to quality as opposed to quantity has served it well. Even Xiaxue or Dawn yang beat TR in terms of readership, anyway, so that is just one barometer amongst others.



I do not know Choo's history, but Andrew or PMonkey was "Idiotwind" in the now-defunct Young PAP forum and Sintercom forum. No PAP affiliate but a fair-minded government critic (fair-minded means unlike those Uncle Yap types). His temper got the better of him when he showed rare support for the government on an issue (can't remember what it was) and was bombarded in SBF. Then thereafter became a "PAP voice" to provoke those who had bombarded him.
 
Without Choo TOC would never have existed. I doubt anyone else in the founding group would have been given the tacit approval.

Are you basing Choo entirely on his $500 honorarium with Ho Geok Choo? That was known to others way before TR launched their infamous attacks.
 
more and more ppl tulan that 'self-praise king' ramseth. rougue trader and myself also cannot tahan this big hole demon. i am sure there are many others who tulan him in the silent. :D

I reserve any more comments on this guy. Like I have said before, the regulars here have own eyes to see his behaviour and judge for themselves. My real worry is his ever-clueless friend. But if anyone is THAT clueless then I suppose nothing can be helped.
 
I reserve any more comments on this guy. Like I have said before, the regulars here have own eyes to see his behaviour and judge for themselves. My real worry is his ever-clueless friend. But if anyone is THAT clueless then I suppose nothing can be helped.

If you mean GMS and Ramseth, I'd rate GMS maniac and Ramseth psycho. From what I've read, both are verified real people and real friends. Yet both sometimes are at each others' throats and sometimes locking arms.
 
Even if Pmonkey was a PAP supporter, so what? TOC is not marketing as a pure opposition blog. It is marketed as a socio-political site, non-partisan.

Pmonkey the nick in the old SBF was quite emotional/reactive to certain types of criticisms, but it would not fair to say he chose the PAP side purely as a result of being prodded in the wrong area. I think he did genuinely believe PAP did some good in some respects.

TOC's attention to quality as opposed to quantity has served it well. Even Xiaxue or Dawn yang beat TR in terms of readership, anyway, so that is just one barometer amongst others.

He "chose" the PAP side out to play a devil's advocate. But I also think he did genuinely believe PAP did some good in some respects.
 
There has never been a entity like TOC since the PAP took power in 1959. There has never been a political entity with personalities with known identities that been left unfettered for so long or left unproscribed despite the existing laws spelling out what is a political association in 2 statutes.

It was an experiment that had to exist especially after old man's failure to convince the young in that infamous broadcast where even SPH and MediaCorp journalist spoke their mind.

Do you allow unknowns to run that experiment or people that the authorities had linked or worked with or have trust in.

TOC was never manna from heaven or a fluke shot. Moment it started it was politics.

Interesting hypothesis, but could it be that TOC simply got lucky & happen to be in the right place at the right time. Others have failed before, due to personality conflicts. A.Loh and Choo on the other hand made a good tag-team with Choo being the politically savvy one and A.Loh being the go-getter who could pull in people like Leong Sze Hian and others to boost credibility.

Remember they started very slow but picked up speed as the focus was on quality articles as opposed to the trash dished out by TR which any 15yo can write.
 
There has never been a entity like TOC since the PAP took power in 1959. There has never been a political entity with personalities with known identities that been left unfettered for so long or left unproscribed despite the existing laws spelling out what is a political association in 2 statutes.

It was an experiment that had to exist especially after old man's failure to convince the young in that infamous broadcast where even SPH and MediaCorp journalist spoke their mind.

Do you allow unknowns to run that experiment or people that the authorities had linked or worked with or have trust in.

TOC was never manna from heaven or a fluke shot. Moment it started it was politics.

And your point is...?
 
You have an excellent track record in this forum so I will be frank.

As I pointed out in my post, it was tacit approval. There no form, no application or an online approval form that was sent to the PAP for approval. Choo was there well before TOC was launched. At any one time, I would guesstimate that 20% of Singaporeans would be keen to start a forum, start a party, or have a platform to allow people to voice their views and share their opinions. It is not out of the box idea and therefore a rare shooting star. It is an outcome of this regime and the conduct of SPH.

Out of this lot, a few will go to the extent of actually exploring ways to make this reality. There will be discussions, likely champions found and fellow travellers gathered.

A tiny number of them have actually sent in their applications to Registrar of Societies for formal registration or wrote into to seek clarification. 99.99% did not get the nod, was given an unambiguous rely or asked to jump through hoops by putting various conditions.

When TOC was launched, Intelligentsia guessed what had happened. Others saw what happened. Some tried to emulate and did not get the nod. Student in tertiary institutions were keen to follow but were told not to. Only Kent Ridge Common came online and the only one who followed TOC's approach to touch hot button topics was removed.

Even Roundtable near the end was cautioned. Mr Brown which did not even rate as an outright political entity had his legs cut at the knees and had his his column yanked.

Since TOC was formed, they have been discipline, professional and fair. They covered previously taboo issues and did things that SPH or Mediacorp or any other non political entity never did. TOC until now has not become militant or confrontational but continued to tackle issues. I also note that they never ever questioned the Electioneering adventures of the PAP, the subservient role of PA, or the unfair elections methods such as GRC, high deposits. These are truly taboo areas and someone must have told them the ground rules. Again I can tell you no "official" notification exist.

Why then were they gazetted now? Why did the authorities not do anything before. Is Choo or Andrew well educated, scholarly with excellent academic qualification. What was criteria that allowed this leeway when Roundtable with some impressive credentials did not share the same licence.

Maybe fortuitous, or maybe the authorities had no clue.








Yes, its very real. No one had spoken to PAP or any goverment bodies officially about TOC before the group comes about.

Choo joined TOC after the concept was laid, not before.
 
I don't he was playing the devil's advocate then. I think he was like Yaw, CTL in their youngeretc the green, clean cities etc were well regarded by those who were not cognizant of the dark side and therefore supported the estblsihment. You can tell the way he was writing.

I think he found a niche in opposition and felt needed and appreciated - a pendulum effect.

Since then he has come along way and able to know clearly what is right and what is wrong. He is now fair and independent in thought as shown by his comments, articles etc. It is a growing phase and he seems to found himself.


I do not know Choo's history, but Andrew or PMonkey was "Idiotwind" in the now-defunct Young PAP forum and Sintercom forum. No PAP affiliate but a fair-minded government critic (fair-minded means unlike those Uncle Yap types). His temper got the better of him when he showed rare support for the government on an issue (can't remember what it was) and was bombarded in SBF. Then thereafter became a "PAP voice" to provoke those who had bombarded him.
 
Gazetting is not a good thing. It immediately sends a clear signal to society that is has been proscribed. Its the first warning to capable people not step into PAP territory or undermine the PAP hold on this country.

You will not get quality people coming forward. I would suggest that it will die a slow death because no sane person wants to be accountable collectively for the actions of one wayward individual. Asking TOC to have President, Treasurer and secretary is not to organise social events but to have control and accountability. These 3 guys can no longer say that they do not share the opinion of their contributors.

How can gazetting can be a good thing is beyond me.


Cutting TOC down to size is not that possible unless they arrest everyone behind TOC and that itself would make PAP look really bad.

TOC is not a news portal that put up anti-goverment or defamatary articles. I think readers would notice that unless the information is backed by facts or are of just personal opinions, nothing TOC has can be easily used against TOC itself or the people doing their job right now.

I see gazatting TOC as both a good thing and a bad thing. Good in the sense that PAP had recognised an organisation outside their control can do what their themselves cant do and hence, viewed as a form of social-political threat. TOC would be given a certain recognised status and for TOC's own development as a credible news portal, exansion is at hand.

Bad in the sense that now, TOC would have to tread abit more carefully in what they put up and be made more accountable. There is no issue of transparency in TOC, the editors and writers are public known. Its just that now, they are more in control of not to write anything that could be deemed damaging to Singapore overall and so far, none of what TOC had put up is damaging to neither state nor individual.
 
Back
Top