TOC Gazetting - The Reason

[scroobal]

You will be probably be amused why TOC ended up being gazetted a Political Association.

As some of you know that TOC was first conceived within the ranks of the PAP to assuage the needs of the liberal young and given licence to undertake things that was never allowed before.

Since TOC began, the authorities have received complaints from PAP lovers and those compliant Singaporeans who honestly thought that one should not rebut a "democratically" elected in Govt. These complaints have gone up and down with Viswa's explanation in TOC forum and the Homeless issue as times when such complaints seemed to increase.

Interestingly, complaints to the authorities have also come from least likely quarters - anti-estblaishments/opposition for reasons such as double standards and jealousy.

The straw that actually broke the camel's back is when potential candidates for the coming elections during tea party expressed concern that the presence of TOC might jeopardise PAP's results, indirectly implying that they are looking for assurance for wins. What a bunch of balless creatures.

Those who believe that Gazetting merely adds administrative overheads are not grasping the picture. No different to rules for GE. Firstly its an indication that it is a concern for the authorities and there is a stigma. More importantly people participating in it are now collectively responsible for the wayward action of one. This is tremendous responsibility similar to CEC finding themselves in hotsoup over a wayward article they had not seen or authorised.

The outcome is that those who cannot afford it will no longer participate or come forward and we are then left with a defunct body, or one with mediocre characters. In the rare exception, some seriously brave people might actually hold it together like those in Maruah. I cannot be the only one to see some people dropping off.

It is really sad that we can send our best people to western liberal world for their tertiary education with their strong sense of democratic rights and still can deploy such horrendous oppressive measures. A real disgrace when TOC has not once did anything wayward or contrary to the law or even something that was tenuous. Even the homeless issue was more social rather than political.

ps. nothing to do with the recent forum that they held. It explains why the PM did not allow attendence as he knew what was happening despite Choo's well known connection and early positive indication that he received from one PAP MP.

 

[Ramseth]

As some of you know that TOC was first conceived within the ranks of the PAP to assuage the needs of the liberal young and given licence to undertake things that was never allowed before.

What version of history is that? The idea of TOC was first hatched by Pmonkey when he was a WP member. The first few meetings were called between Pmonkey, Remy, Cleareyes, me and some others who had indicated interest. Cleareyes backed out later as he joined a public organisation. I also backed out later as I had to go back to Thailand for a while. Credit to Pmonkey and Remy, they persisted and got more writers on board. Pmonkey then resigned from WP to avoid any conflict of interest.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Typical ZI LIAN KUANG wants to be part of EVERYTHING, including TOC's formation!

Your this standard of writing, even TR would reject your pieces, much less TOC! (And yes, that's an insult :o:o)

What crap history is that? The idea of TOC was first hatched by Pmonkey when he was a WP member. The first few meetings were called between Pmonkey, Remy, Cleareyes, me and some others who had indicated interest. Cleareyes backed out later as he joined a public company. I also backed out later as I had to go back to Thailand for a while. Credit to Pmonkey and Remy, they persisted and got more writers on board. Pmonkey then resigned from WP to avoid any conflict of interest.

 

[Ramseth]

Typical ZI LIAN KUANG wants to be part of EVERYTHING, including TOC's formation!

Your this standard of writing, even TR would reject your pieces, much less TOC! (And yes, that's an insult :o:o)

Typical obsessive stalker; everything I say must be narcissistic? Well. It's out there for all to judge. I claimed zero credit. It was Pmonkey and Remy who finally got TOC going. I backed out. Go re-read properly. I was just rebutting Scroobal's claim that TOC started as a "PAP assuage," unless he believes that Pmonkey and Remy are PAP moles.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Leongsam should thank you & give u a cut of the advert profits, if not for people like you I would log on less everyday.

Scroobal's take on TOC was made long ago already. I even remember you commented quite a lot in that thread. He has no proof, but then, neither do you. Maybe you are both ZI LIAN KUANGs -- you being the bigger one of course.

By the way "PAP assuage" does not imply TOC founders were moles. You clearly don't understand how covert operations can work "at a distance", or by unwitting "proxies". Not to say that I agree with this assessment.

Typical obessesive stalker; every I say must be narcissistic? Well. It's out there for all to judge. I claimed zero credit. It was Pmonkey and Remy who finally got TOC going. I backed out. Go re-read properly. I was just rebutting Scroobal's claim that TOC started as a "PAP assuage," unless he believes that Pmonkey and Remy are PAP moles.

 

[Ramseth]

By the way "PAP assuage" does not imply TOC founders were moles. You clearly don't understand how covert operations can work "at a distance", or by unwitting "proxies". Not to say that I agree with this assessment.

I'm relieved that you're thinking me not so intelligent to understand. Don't take me too seriously.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I'm relieved that you're thinking me not so intelligent to understand. Don't take me too seriously.

A lot better, Ram, a lot better. Now if you'll excuse me I need to wash my whiskey cup.

 

[scroobal]

The first thing you got to realise is that world does not revolve around you, let alone me.

TOC was not the first site that was endorsed. The first such site was in Pacific Internet until people found out that MHA had done a PEN test on their those who logged in and the courageous and romantic chap behind it pulled the plug.

Before you created the world in 6 days, PMonkey and Choo were batting on the other side. You may want to see Pmonkey's very first post in the original SBF shorthly after returning from Chennai. His first venture when he signed up with WP was to match monikers with real identities that created an uproar. I guess some people honestly think that the world is made up of roses and peppermint.

Then again I am sure, I don't have to tell you all these things. Do I?

What version of history is that? The idea of TOC was first hatched by Pmonkey when he was a WP member. The first few meetings were called between Pmonkey, Remy, Cleareyes, me and some others who had indicated interest. Cleareyes backed out later as he joined a public organisation. I also backed out later as I had to go back to Thailand for a while. Credit to Pmonkey and Remy, they persisted and got more writers on board. Pmonkey then resigned from WP to avoid any conflict of interest.

 

[Ramseth]

Before you created the world in 6 days, PMonkey and Choo were batting on the other side. You may want to see Pmonkey's very first post in the original SBF shorthly after returning from Chennai. His first venture when he signed up with WP was to match monikers with real identities that created an uproar. I guess some people honestly think that the world is made up of roses and peppermint.

Then again I am sure, I don't have to tell you all these things. Do I?

Anybody who's somebody here long enough all know. Pmonkey was batting on LHL side until somehow something snapped and he joined WP.

 

[Dreamer1]

PAP has indeed made the whole little red dot a mine field.

How can such a first world nation exist,the fact is that it does and doing great till this moment.

I have to admit miracle do happen in this world

Now I only think that it may not last in the end.

and in the end,we are all dead!

 

[patrickv]

Typical ZI LIAN KUANG wants to be part of EVERYTHING, including TOC's formation!

Your this standard of writing, even TR would reject your pieces, much less TOC! (And yes, that's an insult :o:o)

wow.

more and more ppl tulan that 'self-praise king' ramseth. rougue trader and myself also cannot tahan this big hole demon. i am sure there are many others who tulan him in the silent.

 

[scroobal]

When the Roundtable was first conceived, despite it having mostly establishment figures including some with position of influence( including the son of a past ISD/SID head) it had to jump thru hoops and occasionally faced difficulties when obtaining permission for forums etc.

It was a different approach to TOC. TOC was never about the price of vegetables in the market or consumer advocacy. It was all about politics. It was not tethered from the very start until now. So what was different about TOC and its founding members? Take a look at the slate of TOC founding members or those that germinated the idea. What was different or special about them that no requirements were laid down by the authorities.

Get real. If you seriously think that nobody within the founding group ever spoke to PAP about TOC and its construct, you must be dreaming. The fact it is a blog/website does not give it special rights when it comes to this Govt. There have been many people that have expressed the desire to host or support a neutral political website but these have never come to fruition and the people behind such ideas are just as determined and capable as any others. Many organisations including student bodies have spoken to the authorities about running a "neutral" website and the standard answer is to submit registration as a society. So most run anonymous sites and others have given up.

Without Choo TOC would never have existed. I doubt anyone else in the founding group would have been given the tacit approval.

I think you do realise that I am not replying to you but the forum as whole as you know very well what is going on.

Anybody who's somebody here long enough all know. Pmonkey was batting on LHL side until somehow something snapped and he joined WP.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

wow.

more and more ppl tulan that 'self-praise king' ramseth. rougue trader and myself also cannot tahan this big hole demon. i am sure there are many others who tulan him in the silent.

You've gotta understand something about this Ramseth character. He likes to throw smoke bombs around and then act blur. Other times, he will fake ignorance in order to lead another person on, and then later claim, "Oh I knew it all along" .... Watch this thread closely & you'll see what I mean.

Ram's real name is Vincent Sear Jun Rong. Once he thought he can score with a female reporter who interviewed him. So happy that he brag about it in the forum. Turns out not only did he fail to even snitch a date with the reporter, the reporter couldn't even be bothered to publish his statements.

 

[cleareyes]

As some of you know that TOC was first conceived within the ranks of the PAP to assuage the needs of the liberal young and given licence to undertake things that was never allowed before.

Scroobal, which part of History did you get such information from?

Ramasth had point out how the original TOC started and it has nothing to do with PAP. In fact, Intention was to ensure freedom of expression with responsiblity and balance report for all sides to be done.

I have no real reason why PM wanted to gazatte TOC. I can only assume that TOC had done something which the goverment had not in their ability to do, that is to create political interest with full public responsiblity and transparency.

That is something no one had done before ever in modern Singapore political history.

 

[patrickv]

You've gotta understand something about this Ramseth character. He likes to throw smoke bombs around and then act blur. Other times, he will fake ignorance in order to lead another person on, and then later claim, "Oh I knew it all along" .... Watch this thread closely & you'll see what I mean.

Ram's real name is Vincent Sear Jun Rong. Once he thought he can score with a female reporter who interviewed him. So happy that he brag about it in the forum. Turns out not only did he fail to even snitch a date with the reporter, the reporter couldn't even be bothered to publish his statements.

any pics of this big hole demon? bros here can judge as to how 'handsome' he is.

btw, thanks for the tale regarding big hole & the ST reporter. it is funny. :p

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Without Choo TOC would never have existed. I doubt anyone else in the founding group would have been given the tacit approval.

Interesting hypothesis, but could it be that TOC simply got lucky & happen to be in the right place at the right time. Others have failed before, due to personality conflicts. A.Loh and Choo on the other hand made a good tag-team with Choo being the politically savvy one and A.Loh being the go-getter who could pull in people like Leong Sze Hian and others to boost credibility.

Remember they started very slow but picked up speed as the focus was on quality articles as opposed to the trash dished out by TR which any 15yo can write.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I have no real reason why PM wanted to gazatte TOC. I can only assume that TOC had done something which the goverment had not in their ability to do, that is to create political interest with full public responsiblity and transparency.

The PAP and its proxies hate it when there is a rallying force which can bring people together. That's why Chiam in the 90s was a threat, as was LTK before GE2006. Both were rallying forces in their respective times.

I believe Gazetting TOC is not the final thing. They will want to cut TOC down to size.

 

[cleareyes]

Ram's real name is Vincent Sear Jun Rong. Once he thought he can score with a female reporter who interviewed him. So happy that he brag about it in the forum. Turns out not only did he fail to even snitch a date with the reporter, the reporter couldn't even be bothered to publish his statements.

Hey man

Disagreement aside, i think this is getting personal to put up someone name and personal activities here.

Lets just stick to the discussion and not get carried away ok?

 

[cleareyes]

I believe Gazetting TOC is not the final thing. They will want to cut TOC down to size.

Cutting TOC down to size is not that possible unless they arrest everyone behind TOC and that itself would make PAP look really bad.

TOC is not a news portal that put up anti-goverment or defamatary articles. I think readers would notice that unless the information is backed by facts or are of just personal opinions, nothing TOC has can be easily used against TOC itself or the people doing their job right now.

I see gazatting TOC as both a good thing and a bad thing. Good in the sense that PAP had recognised an organisation outside their control can do what their themselves cant do and hence, viewed as a form of social-political threat. TOC would be given a certain recognised status and for TOC's own development as a credible news portal, exansion is at hand.

Bad in the sense that now, TOC would have to tread abit more carefully in what they put up and be made more accountable. There is no issue of transparency in TOC, the editors and writers are public known. Its just that now, they are more in control of not to write anything that could be deemed damaging to Singapore overall and so far, none of what TOC had put up is damaging to neither state nor individual.

 

[cleareyes]

Get real. If you seriously think that nobody within the founding group ever spoke to PAP about TOC and its construct, you must be dreaming.

Yes, its very real. No one had spoken to PAP or any goverment bodies officially about TOC before the group comes about.

Choo joined TOC after the concept was laid, not before.