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Serious Thum Ping Tjin Vs Shan

CoffeeAhSoh

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thum pj is a well known ah Xia Kia and have enough money and time to play with Shan Long time.


Ah xia kia = ???


.


The final day of the Select Committee hearings on Deliberate Online Falsehoods turned into a wide-ranging history lesson on Singapore and Malaysia in the 1950s and 1960s, as Home Affairs and Law Minister K Shanmugam and historian Thum Ping Tjin sparred on Thursday (29 March) over the exact nature of communist activities in the two countries during the tumultuous period.

In a marathon session in Parliament House that went on for almost six hours and often got testy, seminal events such as the Hock Lee Bus riots and the Malayan Emergency were referenced, as well as communist leaders Chin Peng and Fong Chong Pik and the late Singapore prime minister Lee Kuan Yew and former Barisan Sosialis leader Lim Chin Siong.

In his submission to the Committee, Thum asserted that fake news has not had much of an impact in Singapore, with one major exception: the “falsehoods” that the People’s Action Party (PAP) used to justify the detentions of thousands under the Internal Security Act from 1963 to 1987.

“Beginning with Operation Coldstore in 1963, politicians have told Singaporeans that people were being detained without trial on national security grounds due to involvement with radical communist conspiracies to subvert the state. Declassified documents have proven this to be a lie.”

Shanmugam zeroed in on this point, and spent most of the session questioning Thum’s research into events of that era. Thum is a Research Fellow at the University of Oxford who has been writing and publishing on Singapore history since 2006. He is known for his interpretation of key historic events in Singapore during the 1950s-1960s that contradicts official accounts.

‘This is not scholarship, but sophistry’" data-reactid="27" style="margin-bottom: 1em; color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">‘This is not scholarship, but sophistry’

“You ignore and suppress what is inconvenient,” said Shanmugam, asserting that Thum had failed to reach the standards of an objective historian. At one point, Shanmugam even made reference to the notorious Holocaust denier and self-styled historian David Irving.

“I’m suggesting to you, based on what you have said to us, what we have seen is not scholarship, but sophistry,” added the minister, which Thum vigorously disputed.

In response to Shanmugam’s numerous attempts to pin him down to an answer, Thum said in an exasperated tone, “Are you going to go through the ‘yes or no’ thing, or can I give a nuanced answer?”

At the end of a long exchange about purported communist conspiracies in the region and communist tactics, Thum drily remarked, “Very successfully too, since Malaya was taken over by the Communist Party. Oh no wait, they weren’t, were they? My mistake.”

The historian was referring to the 1948-1960 period when then Malaya was battling the communists and eventually managed to suppress their insurgency with the help of the British. Many historians agree that the communist movement in the region was crippled at the end of the Malayan Emergency.

Thum’s comment prompted the minister to quip, “Yes, I know that you can’t resist some jokes now and then.” To which Thum said, “Life is short.”

Speaking to reporters after his testimony, Thum said that he did not expect his work to be “dissected” to such a degree. “In some ways, it’s very flattering that the Minister of Law and Home Affairs takes such a keen interest in my work. What other academic in what other country would have a minister grilling him for six hours about one article?” he said wryly.

Thum added, “Ultimately, this is the Committee on Deliberate Online Falsehoods, and I don’t think we discussed it at all…so I’m not sure what his motivations were in doing this.”
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
This talkfest is a waste of time because it deals only with secondary mechanisms of spreading falsehoods.

The primary vehicle whereby rumors are spread isn't by social media platforms but by social networking apps. All the crap fake news that I have read in the past few years has arrived on my phone via whatsapp, telegram and wechat groups.

Group members just forward the rubbish without making the slightest effort to verify the facts. It's human nature to want to be first off the block when it comes to perceived "bombshell" news.

Whatsapp is the worst culprit simply because it is the most widely used.

mg_whatsapp_code_comp.gif
 

batman1

Alfrescian
Loyal
PAP style interrogation in a committee on fake news
Shan: U are spotted in Geylang at Lor 24 about 10.00 pm on 28-3-18,Yes or No ?
Tan :Yes
Shan : U know Geylang is a well-known red-light district ,Yes or No ?
Tan : Yes.
Shan :U give the perception that u are there for some hanky-panky,Yes or No ?
Tan : I want to clarify I was there looking for XO durians ....
Shan :Tan,I did not ask u about durians, u are out of context,specifically just answer Yes or No ?
Tan: I want to clarify why I was there so as to give a truthful answer.......
Shan :Tan...stop deviating.....here I set the rules...u just have to answer Yes or No ?
Tan : ............? (KNNCCB like that also can)
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
This talkfest is a waste of time because it deals only with secondary mechanisms of spreading falsehoods.

The primary vehicle whereby rumors are spread isn't by social media platforms but by social networking apps. All the crap fake news that I have read in the past few years has arrived on my phone via whatsapp, telegram and wechat groups.

Group members just forward the rubbish without making the slightest effort to verify the facts. It's human nature to want to be first off the block when it comes to perceived "bombshell" news.

Whatsapp is the worst culprit simply because it is the most widely used.

mg_whatsapp_code_comp.gif
agree. all wayang to lure jokers out in order to put them on pubic notice with the watching pubic. their policy decision is already a foregone conclusion. this stage show is just to drag out the carcasses and display the heads on poles. modern day pubic execution game of thrones style.

latest
 

sweetiepie

Alfrescian
Loyal
PAP style interrogation in a committee on fake news
Shan: U are spotted in Geylang at Lor 24 about 10.00 pm on 28-3-18,Yes or No ?
Tan :Yes
Shan : U know Geylang is a well-known red-light district ,Yes or No ?
Tan : Yes.
Shan :U give the perception that u are there for some hanky-panky,Yes or No ?
Tan : I want to clarify I was there looking for XO durians ....
Shan :Tan,I did not ask u about durians, u are out of context,specifically just answer Yes or No ?
Tan: I want to clarify why I was there so as to give a truthful answer.......
Shan :Tan...stop deviating.....here I set the rules...u just have to answer Yes or No ?
Tan : ............? (KNNCCB like that also can)
my uncle say KNN best way to deal with such situation is Tan to continue saying the same thing I
want to clarify why I was there so as to give a truthful answer.......
and see who's saliva dry first.
he say same for slyvia i not saying soli ..just repeat it can liao.
 

glockman

Old Fart
Asset
Pingtjin Thum
17 hrs ·
What a surreal day. My work on Coldstore, and my central argument that the detainees of Coldstore were not involved in any communist conspiracy, easily withstood six hours of assault by the Minister for Law and Home Affairs, but I wonder what his motivation was in grilling me about my academic work at a panel that is supposed to be about Deliberate Online Falsehoods. The crux of my submission was not addressed. He also avoided any discussion of Operation Spectrum (1987), which is an even clearer case of a deliberate falsehood by the Singapore government. Instead, significant resources appear to have been marshalled with the singular purpose of demolishing scholarly work. This is a clear example of how state resources are being used to suppress academic freedom and inquiry in Singapore. What happened today will intimidate and instil fear into anyone who contradicts the official government narrative. I had made my submission with the best intentions and in a constructive spirit, and I am disappointed with how Mr Shanmugam chose to insult me and my professional competence instead of engaging in an honest debate on equal footing.

Alfian Sa'at
3 hrs ·
I don't understand why the Select Committee hearings on Deliberate Online Falsehoods have to be so ugly.

What I see are some activists and academics trying to give their views in good faith. But rather than being listened to like citizens representing the spectrum of political views in Singapore society, they are instead treated with sneering hostility, as if they were not witnesses giving evidence but the accused.

It seems as if the effect is to intimidate those with contrary views from making submissions to the government in the future. How can this ever be good for Singapore? How can you encourage Singaporeans to engage in civil public discourse when you turn consultation sessions into cross examinations?

But I have to say that if anything, the way some of the respondents--like Pingtjin Thum and Kirsten Han--have carried themselves have been exemplary. They were patient, dignified, composed, in spite of the disgraceful baiting they were subjected to, the shameful ad hominem attacks, finding themselves in an absurd, unanticipated position: that in taking a stand on an issue they were instead forced to take the stand. These people exemplified grace under pressure. They represent what I love best about Singapore.

I wouldn't know how I would have reacted myself if the session turned into a grilling session on something I had written some time ago, or was based on articles which I had not even read myself. While my inquisitors read robotically from their prepared notes, quite possibly put together by the many staff at their disposal (imagine how sinister it would be if the real reason they kept postponing PJ's appearance was because they needed more time for their minions to comb through his research papers), under the delusion that they are making their harshest critics squirm, and probably oblivious to how it's the public that's squirming at their showboating.

I think I would have walked out with a 'bitch, I did not sign up for this, mmmkay?' But the fact that those others persisted and stayed on showed not just their courage and tenacity but also reflected how difficult it is to get the ears of the government if you're not singing their tune. The Parliament Chamber is the biggest echo chamber in Singapore, and if any member gives you space for a hearing, you seize it for all it's worth.

But what do we gain from this vengeful, gladiatorial attempt to even political scores? Have we become any wiser on the nature of 'falsehoods'--how they can be weaponised by foreign agents, for example, to polarise views and destabilise society (on for example, Singapore-China relations)? Or even how 'fake news legislation' can itself be weaponised to stifle real debate on 'sensitive' issues like PAP's political succession? Imagine how convenient it would be for the government to cry 'fake news' every time Lee Wei Ling says something that could embarrass her 'dishonorable son' of a brother.

There's something really tragic in the sight of Shanmugam behaving in such a pugnacious, patronising manner, looking like he's trying to do an LKY, and probably thinking he is the real heir to a certain aspect of the latter's legacy because of their shared background in litigation. A legacy of leadership not by moral example but by trying to make an example of others. The more I keep watching Shanmugam in action, the more I ask, 'what is wrong with this man?' He represents what I detest most about Singapore, or specifically its political 'leadership'.
 

glockman

Old Fart
Asset
Alfian Sa'at
3 hrs ·

There's something really tragic in the sight of Shanmugam behaving in such a pugnacious, patronising manner, looking like he's trying to do an LKY, and probably thinking he is the real heir to a certain aspect of the latter's legacy because of their shared background in litigation. A legacy of leadership not by moral example but by trying to make an example of others. The more I keep watching Shanmugam in action, the more I ask, 'what is wrong with this man?' He represents what I detest most about Singapore, or specifically its political 'leadership'.
I have stated in another thread that he is trying to channel LKY. I hope voters have enough sense to know this type of behaviour is obsolete and deprive him of a vote in the next GE.
 

ChenHaoNan

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thum is staying in a good class bungalow and can afford to fuck the government full time.
Average sinkies like us have to work to survive and occasionally keyboard warrior here.
 

CoffeeAhSoh

Alfrescian
Loyal
TpJ : "Shanmugam chose to insult me and my professional competence instead of engaging in an honest debate on equal footing."....


why Thum want to fly all the way from oxford to be insulted ???

correct ? or not correct ?
 

myfoot123

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Sham: Doctor, I got cancer right?
Doctor: We are still investigating
Sham: You just have to answer "Yes or No".
Doctor: At this point in time, we can't be certain.
Sham" It is either "Yes or No!"
Doctor: Sir, trust my profession, I am a doctor and I know what I am doing.
Sham: Your answer is sophistry and I question your ability as a professional doctor if you don't answer my question directly.
Doctor: In that case, Sham you GO TO HELL!!
 

myfoot123

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
You may be correct I don't understand a thing about Thum (Please don't ask me to watch the full video to learn about him :(). I am never a fan of those who write history about Singapore or how repressive the rule of Lee Kuan Yew was...etc.
. :p
Yet, still got many goons who kept the series memoire of an old farts, as if it was some kind of wealth amulet.
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
TpJ : "Shanmugam chose to insult me and my professional competence instead of engaging in an honest debate on equal footing."....


why Thum want to fly all the way from oxford to be insulted ???

correct ? or not correct ?
as a trustee for project south east asia which is sponsored by oxford it’s best for him to be based in sg. a research fellow of oxford need not live in oxford. with technology these days one can work out of anywhere, especially near his subject matter, more so if his focus is in s.e.a.
 
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