The younger Singaporeans do not share those views....

[winnipegjets]

Oh yeah? Look at the slums of Bangkok....

Thank your lucky stars LKY saved you from a life of squalor.

Those countries are HUGE ...whereas sinkapore is just a tiny dot.

Sad that you could not find the well-developed areas in those countries. And the well-developed areas in those countries are bigger than the land mass of sinkapore.

 

[freedalas]

During the time when our mini-stars were getting full salary, we did not achieve Swiss standard of living and Football team qualifying for world cup.

We opened up the flood gates for foreigners and severe flooding in Singapore.

We also screwed up on the COE quotas and our "World Class Transport System". Cronisim was and still at its peak.

In the article, when comparing Mini-stars salary, he compared to bankers. Let me remind him that not many in his cabinet was a banker. Wong Kan Seng was a teacher and I am sure the mini-stars pay was way more than that of a teacher and I am not even pointing out thay one of his junior mini-star is paid almost as much as the entire G-20 head of states salaries combined. Maybe he thinks that someone like Chan Chun Seng is more capable than Merkel and Obama combined.

His logic of high salary is also flawed, seen by the recent spate of corruption cases and the many more that may not have hit the headlines.

I think the old man is living in his glorious past and blind to the "now"

You are spot on, bro. Excellent points highlighting how short sighted the Old Fart was. The consequences of his policies are being felt now and Singapore is truly falling apart. As the Malaysian opposition Kirpal Singh said, the Old Fart should just ride into sunset. He has already done enough damage causing so much sufferings among Singaporeans and yet still want to open his big mouth with views that are totally obsolete. Old Fart - why don't shut the fuck up!

 

[freedalas]

Yes it is. LKY has poor wisdom, poor judgement, self centerd and arrogant. In fact he was too young be a PM as he had not gone through life of a middle age man to know about family.

Exactly! One good evidence of that is he bringing Singapore into Malaysia. This was strongly opposed by some of his PAP colleagues who then left in protest and formed Barisan Socialis. These guys has better vision and judgement than him as they were proven right as how much we failed while in Malaysia.

 

[freedalas]

LKY did not serve. He took the lead and created a miracle. His methods were harsh but he got the job done and he delivered on his promises to a whole generation.

Without him, Singapore would not be what it is today. It would have advanced somewhat in terms of infrastructure but in a far more haphazard and disorganised way. It would also still be almost entirely dependent on Malaysia for its water supply.

Agree. Singapore would not be what it is today without LKY. The Singapore of today is where people lives in misery having to cope with an escalating costs of living, crowded out by indiscriminate influx of foreign workers, a totally unreliable public transport, inadequate infrastructures, negligible health care, and a corrupt civil service and authorities. Yes, Singapore would certainly not what it is today without LKY.

 

[ilovesingapore]

Agree. Singapore would not be what it is today without LKY. The Singapore of today is where people lives in misery having to cope with an escalating costs of living, crowded out by indiscriminate influx of foreign workers, a totally unreliable public transport, inadequate infrastructures, negligible health care, and a corrupt civil service and authorities. Yes, Singapore would certainly not what it is today without LKY.

1. People lives in misery : bloody nonsense. Just open your eyes and look around you. Go to the housing estates and the wealthier areas. What misery are you talking about. The only misery I think is you yourself- utterly miserable and a failure to see what is good,happy and bright.

2. Crowded out by indiscriminate influx of foreign workers. I feel so much space here .In fact, we can still accommodate more people.These foreign workers are essential for a well engined economy. You want to go to the sewage pipes and do some dirty work?

3.Unreliable public transport. We have one of the world's best transport system - cheap and good; clean and safe; world class system with affordable fares. Try to take a train in India....

4.Inadequate infra-structures: Just open your eyes lah. Our highways are the best in the world. Our traffic control is the best in the world. Try driving into KL's Chinatown on weekends. Or on a raining day.

5. Negligible health care: Talking cock once again. If we have negligible health care, you will not be alive today. You would have been deat at birth. We have one of the best healthcare system in the world.

6.Corrupt civil service: We have one of the world's best civil governance with its efficiency, competence and incorruptibility. If you want to know what is corruption, you can try other countries.

Thank you. I love Singapore - the best place to be.Many thanks to a world class governance. Majulah Singapura!!!

 

[bryanlim1972]

There was nothing wrong with the policy. It was a policy that was needed at the time it was implemented. There were too many mouths to feed and the wrong group was procreating at more than twice the rate of the rest.

To blame the couples of today for not procreating because of a policy that had already been discontinued more than 3 decades ago is simply ridiculous.

Yes, we had too many mouths to feed and not enough jobs. an excellent government would have created more jobs to solve the problem. a mediocre government would seek to reduce the population.

the fact remains, it was a mediocre decision that led to mediocre results.

and Yes, its somewhat reasonable to blame the low fertility rates on that policy. Many of my peers only have 1 or no siblings. we are now of child raising age, and many of us cannot fathom having more than 2 kids (which is what we experienced growing up)

within one generation, the policy deleted from our collective memory the experience and hence precedent of having larger families.

 

[kopiuncle]

Yes, we had too many mouths to feed and not enough jobs. an excellent government would have created more jobs to solve the problem. a mediocre government would seek to reduce the population.

the fact remains, it was a mediocre decision that led to mediocre results.

and Yes, its somewhat reasonable to blame the low fertility rates on that policy. Many of my peers only have 1 or no siblings. we are now of child raising age, and many of us cannot fathom having more than 2 kids (which is what we experienced growing up)

within one generation, the policy deleted from our collective memory the experience and hence precedent of having larger families.

i don't understand what you meant. mediocre decision? on hindsight again 20/20 ...very easy to criticize. create jobs? the economy was bad, the social fabric was bad and everything looked gloomy and with a booming birth rate...what would you have done? created more mouths to feed?

the subsequent low fertility rates was NOT as a result of the STOP AT TWO policy. i repeatedly argued that it was an economic imperative THEN....but when the country prospered and when the economy turned for the better, incentives were given to have MORE BABIES...what so mediocre about this???

your choice to limit your own family is not a result of the StOP AT TWO policy. it was a self imposed decision to make your own life more enjoyable ...nothing to do with the STOP AT TWO....many in fact made use of the generous bonuses and incentives to have more children...but some chose NOT to have a bigger family because of their own selfish reasons. when the overall fertility rate fell, they put the blame on the government. They put the blame on STOP AT TWO....twisted brains and crooked thinking..

low fertility rate is world wide in developed countries....if you want to blame anyone, blame on your own evolutionary gene and environment...soon the human specie will be extinct. and the other alternative is to import people from other countries. this is again not uniquely singapore. it is happening all over the western world.....including he scandinavian countries.

if anything goes wrong, blame the government. only unthinking stupid people do that....do not run down your own country. do not be destructive. do something and contribute to your own country....majulah singapura!!!

 

[winnipegjets]

i don't understand what you meant. mediocre decision? on hindsight again 20/20 ...very easy to criticize. create jobs? the economy was bad, the social fabric was bad and everything looked gloomy and with a booming birth rate...what would you have done? created more mouths to feed?

Hello, uncle ....we pay them millions ...of course, they need to perform, and it has to better than any government in the world. Remember, they said that they had helicopter vision and the were the cream of the crops. So, your excuse for them is totally untenable.

the subsequent low fertility rates was NOT as a result of the STOP AT TWO policy. i repeatedly argued that it was an economic imperative THEN....but when the country prospered and when the economy turned for the better, incentives were given to have MORE BABIES...what so mediocre about this???

What economic imperative? These guys didn't know their economics. Growth is made possible by consumption. If you don't have enough people, where is the consumption?
The PAP had short-term views and didn't address issues from various angles. There was NO outside the box thinking. So, please lah ...apologize and beg for our forgiveness ...don't defend the indefensible.

your choice to limit your own family is not a result of the StOP AT TWO policy. it was a self imposed decision to make your own life more enjoyable ...nothing to do with the STOP AT TWO....many in fact made use of the generous bonuses and incentives to have more children...but some chose NOT to have a bigger family because of their own selfish reasons. when the overall fertility rate fell, they put the blame on the government. They put the blame on STOP AT TWO....twisted brains and crooked thinking..

How not to stop at two? Everything went up thanks to the PAP. How can we give our kids the best opportunities if we have many? The PAP was so good at introducing penalties with the Stop At Two (SAT) but were so slow in providing the incentives, and a sufficient one, to encourage more births.

low fertility rate is world wide in developed countries....if you want to blame anyone, blame on your own evolutionary gene and environment...soon the human specie will be extinct. and the other alternative is to import people from other countries. this is again not uniquely singapore. it is happening all over the western world.....including he scandinavian countries.

What a lame excuse! Highest salary to do the average is totally unacceptable.

if anything goes wrong, blame the government. only unthinking stupid people do that....do not run down your own country. do not be destructive. do something and contribute to your own country....majulah singapura!!!

If we don't blame the government, who do we blame? Every facet our life is affected by government policies and it has been PAP policies all this while.

 

[kopiuncle]

#88

like i've repeated several times, hindsight is always 20/20.....we can argue and argue until the cows come home lah...hallelujah!
have a nice day!!!

 

[bryanlim1972]

#88

like i've repeated several times, hindsight is always 20/20.....we can argue and argue until the cows come home lah...hallelujah!
have a nice day!!!

yes and the foresight of the stop at 2 policy is 6/600

 

[winnipegjets]

Pathetic LKY begging for credits!

Lee Kuan Yew on fate of S'pore in 100 years' time

The Sunday Times
Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013

SINGAPORE - Former prime minister Lee Kuan Yew's new book launched last Tuesday, One Man's View Of The World, presents what he thinks about the future of major powers and regions. In these extracts, he speaks about death and dying, a younger generation of Singaporeans who have known only a thriving Singapore, as well as Japan's ageing society and Europe's currency woes.

Mr Lee: "On Aug 22, 2012, I received a thank-you card from a Singaporean by the name of James Ow-Yeong Keen Hoy.

From his elegant, cursive handwriting, I guess he must at least be in his 50s. Young people these days prefer to type, and when they do write, they simply do not write as beautifully.

He wrote: "My family is deeply grateful and has benefited from your magnificent leadership and solid contributions that have enabled our nation to achieve peace, happiness, progress, prosperity, solidarity and security all these good years. A big thank you!

"May we have the honour to sincerely wish you, Sir, peace and joy, wisdom and longevity and all the very best in the coming good years. And may our beloved country be blissfully and richly blessed and be mercifully safeguarded now and always. God bless."

I quote at length from this card to highlight the enormity of the mindset shift, from an older generation, including this writer, his peers and his seniors, to a younger one that takes for granted Singapore's affluence.

People like Mr Ow-Yeong have seen Singapore develop from the unsettling 1960s, when hardship and poverty were still the rule rather than the exception, to today's vibrant and cosmopolitan Singapore, providing well-paying jobs to a highly educated population.

Many older Singaporeans also progressed from living in shanty huts to high-rise apartments with present-day conveniences and surrounded by safe neighbourhoods.

They have a good understanding of the nation's imperatives - what it took for us to get here and what it would take to keep up our success - as well as its vulnerabilities.

The younger voters do not share those views. Having been born into a Singapore that had in many ways already arrived, they see all that is around them - a working system generating stability and wealth - and they ask: "Where is the miracle?"...

Even as things stand, we have regretfully shifted the system away from attracting the best talent through reductions to ministerial pay.


If I were a Cabinet minister at the time the change came up for discussion, I would have stood firm. But the younger generation of ministers decided to go with the trend.

It is true that no country in the world pays ministers as we do. But it is also true that no other island has developed like Singapore: sparkling, clean, safe, with no corruption and low crime rates.

You can walk the streets or jog at night. Women will not be mugged. Police do not take bribes, and if they are offered bribes, there are consequences for the ones offering.

None of this came about by coincidence. It took the construction of an ecosystem that requires highly paid ministers.

With every pay reduction, the sacrifice that a minister makes - giving up his profession or his banking job - becomes greater.

Some will eventually tell themselves: "I don't mind doing this for half a term, 21/2 years, as a form of national service. But beyond that, it has to be: thanks but no thanks."

The final outcome would be a revolving-door government, which will inevitably lack a deep understanding of the issues or the incentive to think about problems in a long-term manner.

Will Singapore be around in 100 years? I am not so sure. America, China, Britain, Australia - these countries will be around in 100 years. But Singapore was never a nation until recently.

An earlier generation of Singaporeans had to build this place from scratch - and what a fine job we have done.

When I led the country, I did what I could to consolidate our gains. So too did Goh Chok Tong.

And now, under Lee Hsien Loong and his team, the country will do well for at least the next 10 to 15 years.

But after that, the trajectory that we take will depend on the choices made by a younger generation of Singaporeans.

Whatever those choices are, I am absolutely sure that if Singapore gets a dumb government, we are done for. This country will sink into nothingness."

 

[halsey02]

Re: Pathetic LKY begging for credits!

"And now, under Lee Hsien Loong and his team, the country will do well for at least the next 10 to 15 years."

Sure he did not say, "Hsien Loong my son" & his team?? or the editor proof read & edited to Lee Hsien Loong?

 

[winnipegjets]

Re: Pathetic LKY begging for credits!

It is so pathetic that the Old Fart is defending the indefensible, trying to salvage the mess he has created.

I quote at length from this card to highlight the enormity of the mindset shift, from an older generation, including this writer, his peers and his seniors, to a younger one that takes for granted Singapore's affluence.

Do you ever hear LKY talks about median salaries? He is always quoting average salaries because it looks good and it is inflated by the fringe values.
$1700 is the median take home pay and that is barely making it in sinkapore context. So, what bloody afflence is LKY talking about?????

Even as things stand, we have regretfully shifted the system away from attracting the best talent through reductions to ministerial pay.

His scholar system has failed. We don't have the best in government. We have the greediest, the laziest and the most stupid in government and the top echelons of the public service.
The WP government should promise to slash pay by 70 percent!

It is true that no country in the world pays ministers as we do. But it is also true that no other island has developed like Singapore: sparkling, clean, safe, with no corruption and low crime rates.

This is just a tiny dot which many world class cities have been able to accomplished without using draconian laws. People do it because it is the right thing to do, not by compulsion.

You can walk the streets or jog at night. Women will not be mugged. Police do not take bribes, and if they are offered bribes, there are consequences for the ones offering.

Old Fart is living in his fairy tale world. It is no longer too. Does he even read the newspaper?

None of this came about by coincidence. It took the construction of an ecosystem that requires highly paid ministers.

His thesis collapses because all the outcome he claims is no longer true.

Will Singapore be around in 100 years? I am not so sure. America, China, Britain, Australia - these countries will be around in 100 years. But Singapore was never a nation until recently.

A nation arises when there are independent institutions that function regardless of the political stripe of the government. That's why the developed countries survive. Sinkapore will be absorbed by China or India unless similar independent institutions germinate. Get rid of the PAP and nation building truly starts and the essential building blocks can be put in place.

And now, under Lee Hsien Loong and his team, the country will do well for at least the next 10 to 15 years.

He assumes again. The country is NOT doing well. The top 20 percent is happy but the other 80 percent is cursing. That's why the PAP will be gone in 2016.

Whatever those choices are, I am absolutely sure that if Singapore gets a dumb government, we are done for. This country will sink into nothingness."

I agree with him. That's why we need to get rid of the dumb PAP government now.

 

[ray_of_hope]

Re: Pathetic LKY begging for credits!

His scholar system has failed. We don't have the best in government. We have the greediest, the laziest and the most stupid in government and the top echelons of the public service.
The WP government should promise to slash pay by 70 percent!

When will there be such a government?

 

[Dreamer1]

Re: Pathetic LKY begging for credits!

"And now, under Lee Hsien Loong and his team, the country will do well for at least the next 10 to 15 years."

Sure he did not say, "Hsien Loong my son" & his team?? or the editor proof read & edited to Lee Hsien Loong?

Most Singapore citizens who are thinker believe that under Lee Hsien Loong and his team,Singapore would enter the bad spell pretty soon,real soon.
Which party are the DUMB Singapore citizens with apart from millionaire elites?PAP!

 

[kopiuncle]

yes and the foresight of the stop at 2 policy is 6/600

wauhahhaa!!!! blinded by the blindness!!!...fore skin better lah...lol!!!

 

[spotter542]

Re: Pathetic LKY begging for credits!

50 years later , Singapore will be absorbed by Matland

 

[Kuailan]

Re: Pathetic LKY begging for credits!

Oldman stop at 2 campaign was shaft down the peasantporean 's throat like it or not stop at 2!!

3rd child will be penalised! he creates FEAR in the heart of Peasantporean!!

All clinics were distributing birth control pills and condoms for FREE !! Now they want to do away all these!!

They failed miserably now they import Foreign Trash to fill the gap! lots of Pinoy, PRC and ah neh!!

Burmese and Vietnamese were not left out!!

So now he turn around and say SG life changed!! please lah old man don't talk rubbish anymore!!

 

[iamhere]

Re: Pathetic LKY begging for credits!

In reality, the nation have been providing welfare state benefits (juz because of one party rule system) to leeches aka papees leeching on the system. These leeches aka papees wasting nation's time and resources and etc every single second of the Mother Earth's day. By some unfortunate default, we as a nation have to put food on table and tonnes of $$$ for these leeches...


The country needs the government (employees of the public) to work for the country.
Can these leeches aka papees become self reliant? Get a job and be prepared to work hard
at least for once in a lifetime. Stop Leeching on the system.





FUCK PAP, FUCK PAP, FUCK PAP.........
MAY PAPEES, CRONIES N FAMILIES BURN ETERNALLY IN HELLS.........
MAJULLAH SINGAPURA.........
GOD BLESS SINGAPORE..............
REMEMBER to

VOTE papees OUT



do yrself, yr forefathers and yr generations to come, a favor, a service and a long-awaited justice










iamhere says a lot about this:"The democracy shall cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those LEECHES who would not.”

 

[ilovesingapore]

Re: Pathetic LKY begging for credits!

#iamhere

why can't you write in simple terms without causing blindness. your good comments are all marred by your bold fonts...they are very disturbing and tiresome and you lost your point of arguments...