The Irrational Fear and the cost of the Wuhan Virus, Is it worth it?

[Gallego99]

They're too consumed with fear, fear of spreading to their loved ones, no vaccine in sight and just about anything that smells of death.
I just hope good sense will prevail.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

They're too consumed with fear, fear of spreading to their loved ones, no vaccine in sight and just about anything that smells of death.
I just hope good sense will prevail.

No vaccine so what? I hear the illogical excuse that flu has a vaccine...what a joke,,,a flu vaccine only immunises a person from 4 strains of the flu virus,,,it reduces the chance of getting flu but many a times, those with the shots still get flu because there are other strains out there. And when one gets the flu,,one stays home, get antibiotics etc and depend on their own immune system to recover. How is that different from the Wuhan virus?

Another point that is often hyped is the antiviral is ineffective against the Wuhan Virus, let me ask,,,how many of us who have the flu takes anti viral? Drs don't prescribed it often because the symptoms passed and ppl recover. those that don't already old and/or have compromised immune systems which will kill them just like the flu. Is this hype worth it?

 

[Leongsam]

No vaccine so what? I hear the illogical excuse that flu has a vaccine...what a joke,,,a flu vaccine only immunises a person from 4 strains of the flu virus,,,it reduces the chance of getting flu but many a times, those with the shots still get flu because there are other strains out there. And when one gets the flu,,one stays home, get antibiotics etc and depend on their own immune system to recover. How is that different from the Wuhan virus?

Another point that is often hyped is the antiviral is ineffective against the Wuhan Virus, let me ask,,,how many of us who have the flu takes anti viral? Drs don't prescribed it often because the symptoms passed and ppl recover. those that don't already old and/or have compromised immune systems which will kill them just like the flu. Is this hype worth it?

1. There is little point taking antibiotics for the flu because antibiotics do nothing against viral infections.

2. Anti virals work wonders for flu provided the infection is caught early. I took Tamiflu when I was coming down sick with influenza in 2008. I recognised the symptoms of flu ie aching joints and fever and fatigue and started a course of the drug. It worked miracles and by the end of the following day I was as good as new.

 

[aurvandil]

Based on the empirical evidence thus far, the novel coronavirus resembles H1N1 more closely than SARS. The following is the final record from the H1N1 outbreak -

https://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/infopedia/articles/SIP_1759_2011-01-28.html

On 12 February 2010, the Health Ministry changed its alert level to green.23 By this time, it was estimated that 415,000 people in Singapore had been infected with the H1N1 virus and more than 420,000 local residents had received the H1N1 vaccine injection.24 Most infected persons in Singapore experienced mild illness, while there were more than 1,600 hospital admissions from complications related to the virus, including about 100 admissions to intensive care.25 Two weeks after the alert status turned Green, a 5-year old boy with no underlying medical conditions died from the virus infection at the KK Women's and Children's Hospital.

For the H1N1 outbreak, only 0.4% required hospitalization.

In contrast, the current coronavirus based on SINGAPORE data suggest that 15 to 20% of the infected will require hospitalization. Of these it is expected that 1% to 2% will die.

If this outbreak follows the H1N1 pattern, our warm weather will retard its spread to approximately 10% of the population. This translates to approximately 500,000 infected. Of these 75,000 to 100,000 will require hospitalization. An estimated 5,000 to 10,000 will die from the outbreak.

The empirical data is currently still incomplete. The numbers from China and the rest of the world are unreliable so we need to count on our own Singapore cases. When we hit 400 cases, we will have a high level of statistical confidence of the case disposition.

We don't really know how widely it will spread. At the moment, the H1N1 model is the only one we have. We can only hope the spread will not be as wide as that of H1N1.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

1. There is little point taking antibiotics for the flu because antibiotics do nothing against viral infections.

2. Anti virals work wonders for flu provided the infection is caught early. I took Tamiflu when I was coming down sick with influenza in 2008. I recognised the symptoms of flu ie aching joints and fever and fatigue and started a course of the drug. It worked miracles and by the end of the following day I was as good as new.

Than why I Tamiflu not prescribed more often? I just let the flu run its course,,and if I am dead so be it,,death is part of life,,deal with it

 

[Leongsam]

Than why I Tamiflu not prescribed more often? I just let the flu run its course,,and if I am dead so be it,,death is part of life,,deal with it

I don't know what the situation is in SG but in NZ I can get Tamiflu without a doctor's prescription. All you need to do is to describe the symptoms to the pharmacist who is authorised to dispense the drug.

Speed is the essence as once the flu takes hold tamiflu no longer works. It does not work against the common cold virus either.

I always have one course on standby just in case.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

I don't know what the situation is in SG but in NZ I can get Tamiflu without a doctor's prescription. All you need to do is to describe the symptoms to the pharmacist who is authorised to dispense the drug.

Speed is the essence as once the flu takes hold tamiflu no longer works. It does not work against the common cold virus either.

I always have one course on standby just in case.

Wow nz sure is good. But if I get the flu I get the flu. So be it if I die so be it I just take antihistamines n take mc...if the dr gives me antibiotics. I just take them. This is not the Spanish flu. No point making mountains out of mole hills. And I would not take temiflu etc. Bcos often when I feel the flu come in. I take pandol n go to bed n sleep. 50 50 next day I am fine

 

[nayr69sg]

Well someone suicided in India thinking he has the coronavirus.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-...man-died-suicide-becoming-convinced-infected/

Coronavirus: Indian man 'died by suicide' after becoming convinced he was infected
Father-of-three reportedly so terrified of infecting his family that he took his own life
ByJoe Wallen12 February 2020 • 3:20pm

An Indian father-of-three took his own life after convincing himself he had contracted coronavirus and would infect his family, it has been reported.
K. Bala Krishna – who lives in a small village in the Chittoor district of Andhra Pradesh – was told by doctors he had contracted an unknown virus after falling ill.
However, the 50-year-old became convinced he had picked up the coronavirus, now known as Covid-19, after watching videos online.
Alarming clips have been widely circulated on Indian social media of Chinese victims collapsing in public or being seemingly forced into government medical facilities against their will.
And his anxiety around the outbreak intensified last week when three cases were confirmed in Kerala. Its government declared a "state calamity" as it revealed more than 3,000 citizens had been quarantined after displaying symptoms.

Mr Bala Krishna’s family tried to reason with him, arguing that he had not come into contact with anyone else suffering from the virus.
However, he self-quarantined himself and pelted family and friends with stones when they approached. According to reports in the Times of India, he sneaked out of the family home during the early hours of Monday and took his own life.
It is thought to be the first death by suicide anywhere in the world linked to the coronavirus outbreak.
“My father kept on watching coronavirus-related videos the whole day and went on saying he has similar symptoms and that he was infected with the deadly virus,” the victim’s son told the Times of India.
“He told us that he feared the deadly virus could spread and others could get infected as well if they came anywhere close to him.”
On Tuesday, it was confirmed that a fourth Indian national had contracted the virus while living in the United Arab Emirates. The three previous cases in Kerala were in students who had returned from Wuhan, the Chinese city where the outbreak began.
Show more
They are all currently receiving treatment in isolation and said to be in stable condition. Although the number of cases in India has been dwarfed by those in China – which has recorded more than 44,600 infections and 1,100 deaths – it is feared the handful of cases are the tip of the iceberg.
More than 9,400 people in India are currently being monitored by health care officials after displaying symptoms of the virus. Public health experts have also expressed their fears that the chronically underfunded and understaffed public Indian healthcare system would be unable to stop an outbreak spreading.
Around 20 per cent of those infected with Covid-19 are said to require immediate hospital treatment and in the majority of public hospitals patients already struggle to access a bed due to shortages.
The World Health Organization declared the outbreak as a global health emergency on January 30 over its fears the virus would take a devastating hold in a poorly-prepared South Asian or African country.
Health professionals report that each person who contracts the virus infects another two to three people in turn and India’s cities are some of the most densely populated in the world.
The ongoing panic has not been limited to India, with work on key infrastructure projects stalling in Sri Lanka after employees expressed fears they could contract the virus if they continued to work alongside Chinese colleagues.
Protect yourself and your family by learning more about Global Health Security. And sign up to our weekly newsletter here.

Long time no see.

 

[Leongsam]

Wow nz sure is good. But if I get the flu I get the flu. So be it if I die so be it I just take antihistamines n take mc...if the dr gives me antibiotics. I just take them. This is not the Spanish flu. No point making mountains out of mole hills. And I would not take temiflu etc. Bcos often when I feel the flu come in. I take pandol n go to bed n sleep. 50 50 next day I am fine

If you're fine the next day then it cannot be the flu. It's just a cold virus.

I take tamiflu because I have experienced getting full blown flu and it is not a pleasant journey and it can interfere with my activities and my schedule in a big way. With a head cold I'm OK within a 4 to 5 days but with flu I'm off my bike for at least 3 weeks and it can take more than a month after that to regain my fitness.

Popping a course of pills to prevent all the disruption is like a miracle.

 

[nayr69sg]

I don't know what the situation is in SG but in NZ I can get Tamiflu without a doctor's prescription. All you need to do is to describe the symptoms to the pharmacist who is authorised to dispense the drug.

Speed is the essence as once the flu takes hold tamiflu no longer works. It does not work against the common cold virus either.

I always have one course on standby just in case.

Priest lah.

In sinkieland sinkies go to the doctor for things like paracetamol, chlorpheniramine, pseudoephedrine, ibuprofen, and other common OTC meds in the western world. It is sold at much cheaper at the GP clinic than at the pharmacy.

And you want sinkies to see the pharmacist for prescription drugs?

 

[Leongsam]

Here's an article that puts things into perspective.


'I never really felt unwell': What it's like to have coronavirus

13 Feb, 2020 6:18pm


Rebecca Frasure tested positive for coronavirus while on board the Diamond Princess. Video / RNZ
RNZ


More than 1300 people have now died after contracting Covid-19 coronavirus. But what is it actually like to have the flu-like virus?

Rebecca Frasure from the United States has coronavirus, but does not appear to be unwell.

She spoke to Checkpoint in a video interview from isolation in a Tokyo hospital after she tested positive for the virus while on board the Diamond Princess cruise ship.

The ship is docked in Yokohama and all passengers on board are quarantined for 14 days. Frasure's husband is still there.

"I never really felt unwell, I had a little bit of a cough when they told me," she said.

"When I got here I had a bit of a fever, but all of that has normalised and I have no symptoms."


She is not being treated with any medication, but simply seeing out the illness while being monitored in isolation at the hospital.
"Doctors and nurses who come in, they have like a plastic gown or apron covering their scrubs, a mask, a face shield, gloves, they do that every time they come in.

"They're just checking vitals - temperature, lungs, blood pressure, heart rate, and they do that a few times a day.


"I am going to be tested later on today for the virus - it's a two-step process. I'll be tested today and tomorrow, and I'll have to wait for those results."

The quarantined cruise ship Diamond Princess is anchored in the Yokohama Port. Photo / AP

Frasure's husband is still testing negative she said. "I'd like it to stay that way… just waiting till we can be reunited."


She said there's no indication why she contracted the virus and her husband did not. "It's just the luck of the draw. I'm just lucky like that, I guess."

If Frasure's latest tests show negative results, she will be free to go and will wait in the area until her husband is free from the quarantined cruise ship.
"I feel perfectly healthy. So it really came as quite a shock that I have this. I expected it to be way more severe," she said.

"So it sounds like that is the case for the majority of the coronavirus 'sufferers'.

"A lot of them don't experience or exhibit a lot of symptoms. It's really those specialised age groups who are most at-risk that develop the extreme symptoms."

Frasure is relaxed about the ordeal. "This is just a blip on the radar and in hopefully a couple of weeks, a month, a year, it'll all be a distant memory."

 

[nayr69sg]

Than why I Tamiflu not prescribed more often? I just let the flu run its course,,and if I am dead so be it,,death is part of life,,deal with it

From someone who has worked in sinkieland as a GP the answer is Tamiflu is more expensive than amoxicillin. Patients dont want to pay for it. If I recall correctly it costs like SGD$75 for 14 tablets?

That was back in 2008?

Also you have to take it at the first sign of symptoms to be effective. It only inhibits the replication of flu virus and does nothing to existing numbers of virus. So if you are already full of virus it has little use.

Or you can take it prophylactically ie if you are in an area that has flu epidemic then you take one tablet a day (versus twice a day for treatment) to prevent yourself catching the flu. You should not have symptoms. This again is costly. Imagine it is about $5 a tablet everyday.

Can you see why the flu vaccine albeit flawed shoul not be totally dismissed as a tool to fight the flu? Granted it only protect versus a few strains and is a guess made by scientists the year before on what strains will be active. Still the vaccine is relatively cheap compared to Tamiflu.

I think there was also some study that said tamiflu was not very effective in treating flu overall.

 

[nayr69sg]

Guys. Now you can see how irrational and stupid people are. Anyhow scared. Psycho themselves to fear something that isnt so bad.

Well these are the patients we doctors see everyday. These are the people the authorities and courts say patient should be the ultimate one to decide what is best for them and should get to choose how they be treated and what treatment they should have. Patient autonomy. Patient first.

Yeah lah. So end up many doctors will play along, you scared? Ok yeah better take antibiotics. Tamiflu? Oh yeah too expensive. Ok lah we give you amoxicillin. Cheaper. Maybe will help treat secondary bacterial infection. Ok? Yeah ok. Safer lah hor? Dont worry so much lah. Got antibiotic.

Thank you doctor. You the best. I feel so much safer already.

 

[Leongsam]

From someone who has worked in sinkieland as a GP the answer is Tamiflu is more expensive than amoxicillin. Patients dont want to pay for it. If I recall correctly it costs like SGD$75 for 14 tablets?

That was back in 2008?

Also you have to take it at the first sign of symptoms to be effective. It only inhibits the replication of flu virus and does nothing to existing numbers of virus. So if you are already full of virus it has little use.

Or you can take it prophylactically ie if you are in an area that has flu epidemic then you take one tablet a day (versus twice a day for treatment) to prevent yourself catching the flu. You should not have symptoms. This again is costly. Imagine it is about $5 a tablet everyday.

Can you see why the flu vaccine albeit flawed shoul not be totally dismissed as a tool to fight the flu? Granted it only protect versus a few strains and is a guess made by scientists the year before on what strains will be active. Still the vaccine is relatively cheap compared to Tamiflu.

I think there was also some study that said tamiflu was not very effective in treating flu overall.

Tamiflu definitely worked for me back in 2008.

I haven't needed it since probably because I'm always first in line for the quadrivalent flu shot in mid April every single year.

Call me kiasu but the flu shot is free here so I lose nothing in taking steps to reduce the odds. Even if the vaccine does not work 100% if it does reduce the severity of the symptoms that's already a blessing.

Full blown flu is no joke. You can die from the infection.

 

[nayr69sg]

This whole to wear or not wear mask.

You go see a GP in sinkieland. Bet you they are wearing masks when you see them. They also have you wearing mask when you are waiting to see them.

If you ask 10 GPs is it better to wear mask or not wear mask. I would say 9.9 will say better to wear mask. And their patients will say I agree with you doctor!

That 0.1 who say dont wear mask. His patients will say then dr why you wear mask? Sure or not? Dont talk cock lah. And his business will drop cos people will say that stupid doctor tell people dont wear mask wor!

 

[nayr69sg]

Tamiflu definitely worked for me back in 2008.

I haven't needed it since probably because I'm always first in line for the quadrivalent flu shot in mid April every single year.

Call me kiasu but the flu shot is free here so I lose nothing in taking steps to reduce the odds. Even if the vaccine does not work 100% if it does reduce the severity of the symptoms that's already a blessing.

Full blown flu is no joke. You can die from the infection.

Yes flu shot is free here in Calgary too. So we all have the shot annually. Risk of complications is low. So little to lose. Lots to gain.

The flu is no joke. Actual influenza. Very severe high fever and muscle ache.

The "flu" that sinkies refer to is often just the common cold lah. If you have the actual full blown influenza virus high chance you get hospitalized cos your family dunno how to take care of you liao. You have no strength to even walk to toilet! Shit and pee in the bed.

 

[Leongsam]

The "flu" that sinkies refer to is often just the common cold lah. If you have the actual full blown influenza virus high chance you get hospitalized cos your family dunno how to take care of you liao. You have no strength to even walk to toilet! Shit and pee in the bed.

Yes the flu left me bedridden for 4 days with high fever and I felt close to death. I also lost 3kg and I'm already skin and bone so I ended up looking like a jew in a Nazi concentration camp.

Anyone that suggests just letting the flu run its course obviously does not know what flu actually it is.

As for the cost of Tamiflu I would happily pay $1000 per tablet if it was going to prevent the terrible suffering I went through.

 

[nayr69sg]

Most of the GP work in sinkieland is managing expectations lah. Keep customer happy. Keep wait times short. Efficient. See fast address concerns give what they want eg MC how many days 2? 3? Want antibiotics? And a medication for each symptom. Next patient.

Where got time to educate what is correct or wrong? Plus nobody like ro be told they are wrong. So if a patient come in no mask say hey doc no need wear mask lah. A smart dr will say "shh....you smart lah but most are ignorant and paranoid. I also know but must cater to majority mah. You good lah smart guy. Ok what you want today? MC? No need meds?"

Just agree with whatever your patient says! Unless it is downright ridiculous and will cause danger lah. Or illegal.

Eg if patient come in and say hey doc I got cancer and I want you prescribe me warfarin to treat my cancer.

Or hey doctor I got diarrhea and I want you prescribe morphine for me cos I read it can stop diarrhea causes constipation.

Or hey doctor I been feeling very stressed. Cam you prescribe me 100 tablets of dormicum to help me sleep?

 

[nayr69sg]

Yes the flu left me bedridden for 4 days with high fever and I felt close to death. I also lost 3kg and I'm already skin and bone so I ended up looking like a jew in a Nazi concentration camp.

Anyone that suggests just letting the flu run its course obviously does not know what flu actually it is.

As for the cost of Tamiflu I would happily pay $1000 per tablet if it was going to prevent the terrible suffering I went through.

Yes sam you caught the Flu for real.

I have never caught it thank god!

And I have only seen a very small handful of cases of flu in my career. Those people are very very sick. And all required in hospital care in the end.

The reason why tamiflu isnr great is cos most people only go to the dr when they are already 3 or 4 days into symptoms which can be too late already for tamiflu.

It is only useful for people who are willing to open their $75 medicine at the slightest fever and body ache. As you know sinkies heart pain leh. $75!

Taking $5 a day to keep flu away is also heart pain for $$$$ minded sinkies.

 

[Leongsam]

Or hey doctor I been feeling very stressed. Cam you prescribe me 100 tablets of dormicum to help me sleep?

Doctors do absolutely nothing to treat the root cause of insomnia. Sleeping tablets don't induce proper sleep. All they do is cause dementia after long term use.