The Generals in the SAF

[Charlie99]

I would appreciate if those who are more familiar could satisfy my curiosity regarding the seniority of the several generals in the 2015 change of command and appointments.

As a result of several generals resigning to become politicians in 2011 and 2015, it looks like there a few relatively younger generals in very senior positions.

As CCS resigned, the SAF had to recall BG Ravinder Singh to be the COA. Thereafter, BG Perry Lim was promoted to COA.

Then the CDF resigned, and the SAF promoted MG Perry Lim to be the CDF. MG Perry Lim (1990 SAFOS) had been the COA for less than 1.5 years.

Based on the available info, and my estimate of their seniority using their enlistment year, it appears that there are a few generals who may be more senior than BG Melvyn Ong Su Kiat (1994 SAFOS and he was a Colonel in June 2014),
who took over as the Chief Guards Officer from BG Desmond Lim Kok Ming, in July 2014:
1. BG Desmond Lim Kok Ming (enlisted in 1988)
2. BG Lim Hock Yu
3. BG Chia Choon Hoong (1991 SAFOS)
4. BG Milton Ong Ann Kiat (1992 SAFOS)
5. BG Siew Kum Wong

Any of you know whether or not the above generals are more senior than BG Melvyn Ong, and which one of those are SAFOS?

 

[kryonlight]

Who cares about these jiak leow bees?

Why aren't you as curious about the Burmese or Thai junta government as you are about the PAP junta government?

Or white is better?

 

[Onitsuka]

Foremost, what is the difference between COA and CDF ? Both are Chiefs, so what is the difference between Army and Defence Force ? COA command does not extend to Navy and Air Force ?

 

[eatshitndie]

Foremost, what is the difference between COA and CDF ? Both are Chiefs, so what is the difference between Army and Defence Force ? COA command does not extend to Navy and Air Force ?

the hierarchy is president (commander in chief), defense ministar, chief of defense force (cdf). cdf is supposed to be an lg rank but is now an mg rank (mg perry lim). he has promotion potential cumming. :p

 

[bigboss]

It does not matter if they are paper Generals as long as they are local born, patriotic enough to save and die in defending sinkie land, and are not foreign imported shits who will run road like the Brits when Japs attacked sinki land in WW2.

 

[winnipegjets]

the hierarchy is president (commander in chief), defense ministar, chief of defense force (cdf). cdf is supposed to be an lg rank but is now an mg rank (mg perry lim). he has promotion potential cumming. :p

Sinkapore where got commander in chief? Only USA got CIC lah.

 

[winnipegjets]

It does not matter if they are paper Generals as long as they are local born, patriotic enough to save and die in defending sinkie land, and are not foreign imported shits who will run road like the Brits when Japs attacked sinki land in WW2.

These paper generals cost taxpayers $68 million a piece. What have they contributed? And they will run when trouble approaches sinkapore.

 

[eatshitndie]

Sinkapore where got commander in chief? Only USA got CIC lah.

tongue in cheek. kommander fried chicken.

 

[winnipegjets]

tongue in cheek. kommander fried chicken.

View attachment 25360

Wrong ...it should be Jollibee ....Tony is all pinoy.

 

[Papsmearer]

Foremost, what is the difference between COA and CDF ? Both are Chiefs, so what is the difference between Army and Defence Force ? COA command does not extend to Navy and Air Force ?

Chief of defence force is a superior rank and senority to COA. CDF is the head of the SAF. COA is only Head of the Army. There are also heads of the Navy and Air Force. All of which reports to the CDF. COA's boss is CDF. Currently CDF is Perry Lim. Traditionally, because Army is the senior arm of the SAF, the CDF is from the Army formation.

 

[Papsmearer]

These paper generals cost taxpayers $68 million a piece. What have they contributed? And they will run when trouble approaches sinkapore.

We will be fortunate if they run road. If they decide to stay and lead the army, I expect a massacre and the waste of our sinkie males in lopsided battle losses.

 

[Papsmearer]

It does not matter if they are paper Generals as long as they are local born, patriotic enough to save and die in defending sinkie land, and are not foreign imported shits who will run road like the Brits when Japs attacked sinki land in WW2.

In fact, the Brits did not run road. They stood and fight. And in fact, the head of the British armed forces in Singapore, General Percival, was captured after he surrendered. I doubt if you will find Gay Loong anywhere nearby if we go to war. Many Brits were imprisoned and even killed fighting the Japs.

 

[blueRad]

It will be considered a miracle if a general remain in the same position for at least 5 years.

 

[Papsmearer]

the hierarchy is president (commander in chief), defense ministar, chief of defense force (cdf). cdf is supposed to be an lg rank but is now an mg rank (mg perry lim). he has promotion potential cumming. :p

I noticed that too. The ranks have been creeping up vis a vis their appointments. eg. Chief Infantry Officer used to be a Colonel rank. now its a BG rank. Same for Chief Armour Officer. It used to be also a full bird colonel, but now its a BG rank too. To me, Colonel rank is more then sufficient, especially when the armour force has been declining in absolute numbers. No need to promote to BG just to run that formation.

 

[Papsmearer]

I would appreciate if those who are more familiar could satisfy my curiosity regarding the seniority of the several generals in the 2015 change of command and appointments.

As a result of several generals resigning to become politicians in 2011 and 2015, it looks like there a few relatively younger generals in very senior positions.

As CCS resigned, the SAF had to recall BG Ravinder Singh to be the COA. Thereafter, BG Perry Lim was promoted to COA.

Then the CDF resigned, and the SAF promoted MG Perry Lim to be the CDF. MG Perry Lim (1990 SAFOS) had been the COA for less than 1.5 years.

Based on the available info, and my estimate of their seniority using their enlistment year, it appears that there are a few generals who may be more senior than BG Melvyn Ong Su Kiat (1994 SAFOS and he was a Colonel in June 2014),
who took over as the Chief Guards Officer from BG Desmond Lim Kok Ming, in July 2014:
1. BG Desmond Lim Kok Ming (enlisted in 1988)
2. BG Lim Hock Yu
3. BG Chia Choon Hoong (1991 SAFOS)
4. BG Milton Ong Ann Kiat (1992 SAFOS)
5. BG Siew Kum Wong

Any of you know whether or not the above generals are more senior than BG Melvyn Ong, and which one of those are SAFOS?

Seniority is not used a criteria for promotion in the SAF. Political leanings and blind obedience plus paper qualifications are more important. I recall many other scholar generals were promoted over Colonel Thesiera. He was promoted to BG near the very end of his career.

 

[Charlie99]

It will be considered a miracle if a general remain in the same position for at least 5 years.

I believe that LG Bey Soo Khiang (SAFOS, fighter pilot) appointment as CDF was extended from the initial 3 years to 5 years.
In the old days, LG Winston Choo was the CDF for more than ten years.

 

[Charlie99]

I noticed that too. The ranks have been creeping up vis a vis their appointments. eg. Chief Infantry Officer used to be a Colonel rank. now its a BG rank. Same for Chief Armour Officer. It used to be also a full bird colonel, but now its a BG rank too. To me, Colonel rank is more then sufficient, especially when the armour force has been declining in absolute numbers. No need to promote to BG just to run that formation.

There has been "rank inflation" in the SAF and SPF during the past decade or two.

In the old days, most of the CO's of infantry battalions and other units of similar "size" were Majors.
In fact, there were CO's who were CPT, when they were initially appointed.
During my NS days, I recall that CPT Gwee Peng Hong (first batch OCS, and a commando officer, was an OC of the Second Company, the Commando Battalion) refused the local Major rank, because apparently he said that if the SAF appoints him (CPT at that time) as a CO of 1 SIR, that he as a CPT is good enough to be the CO, he does not need the local crab, but if the SAF wishes to promote him to local Major, they might as well promote him to Major.
At that time, his fellow buddies from the first batch OCS were CO's of 3 SIR (Major Neo Poh Chuan, retired as a Colonel), of 4 SIR (Major Chow Giak Piak, retired as LTC, now deceased), whereas LTC Chng Teow Hua (also from the first batch OCS, and was formerly the Chief Combat Engineer Officer) was their Brigade Commander (2 SIB).
Nowadays, most of the CO's are at least Majors, if not LTC, and there are numerous BG's, and Colonels.
The SAF also introduced the SLTC, Senior Lieutenant Colonel.
In the SPF, the rank inflation is at a very similar pace.
Recently, in the SPF, there are 3 Deputy Commissioners (used to be one), 7 SAC (Senior Assistant Commissioners), 19 AC (Assistant Commissioners), about 24 DAC (Deputy Assistant Commissioners), and numerous Superintendents.
Nowadays, many of the CO's are LTC.

 

[Charlie99]

Seniority is not used a criteria for promotion in the SAF. Political leanings and blind obedience plus paper qualifications are more important. I recall many other scholar generals were promoted over Colonel Thesiera. He was promoted to BG near the very end of his career.

I am aware of that.
Besides what you have indicated, it is also possible that certain individuals may reached their highest potential (or lets say the SAF deemed them to have reached a certain level, rank of appointment).
Colin Thesiera was from the first batch OCS.
It was good to see him being promoted to BG.

I recall that there were many officers/instructors at the first batch OCS, who became subordinate officers of their trainees,
for example: Shari Ngaimin, who was a LTA and an instructor at first batch OCS, but was a CPT and Brigade S4 whereas LTC Chng Teow Hua was his Brigade Commander
George Ho, who was a LTA and an instructor at first batch OCS, CO 8 SIR in 1976, but I forgot the name of the Brigade Commander
Jimmy Yap, who was a LTA and an instructor at first batch OCS, CO OCS in 1975 to 1976, then ACGS Intelligence, retired as a LTC (and thereafter, emigrated to Vancouver)

p.s. I am uncertain whether BG LHL was a BG, when he was Director Joint Ops, reporting to Colonel M.S. Gill (Chief of Staff), because after I ROD, and upon graduation from university, I left Singapore.

The first batch OCS published a book, "One of a Kind", and it is in its second edition.
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/one-of-kind-2nd-ed2015/one-of-kind-fullversion.pdf

 

[Charlie99]

Chief of defence force is a superior rank and senority to COA. CDF is the head of the SAF. COA is only Head of the Army. There are also heads of the Navy and Air Force. All of which reports to the CDF. COA's boss is CDF. Currently CDF is Perry Lim. Traditionally, because Army is the senior arm of the SAF, the CDF is from the Army formation.

Chief of Defence Force ("CDF") is the superior officer (appointment) of the Chief of Army ("COA"), and accordingly, is a higher ranking officer.
The COA, CAF (Chief of Air Force) and CNV (Chief of Navy) report to the CDF.

 

[halsey02]

p.s. I am uncertain whether BG LHL was a BG, when he was Director Joint Ops, reporting to Colonel M.S. Gill (Chief of Staff), because after I ROD, and upon graduation from university, I left Singapore.

The first batch OCS published a book, "One of a Kind", and it is in its second edition.
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/one-of-kind-2nd-ed2015/one-of-kind-fullversion.pdf

It was a joke back then, when Mee Siam Mai Hum 'arrived' back home was a 2Lt in 23SA (or was it?..memory a bit foggy these days), that Col M.S. Gill Chief of Arty in the same camp complex, had to salute him.... ha ha ha ha ha