Sincere call for KJ to withdraw and endorse LLL

[godiva]

KJ,

Singaporeans in large will remember to remember the right Mr. Jeyaretnam.

Stop destroying his legacy

 

[metalmickey]

This is normal in politics. During the US Presidential Primaries, Romey's opponents said all sorts of nasty things about him. After he won the Nomination, they all lined up behind him and supported him.

As I wrote in my posting, this will be an immensely difficult thing to do. If KJ can let go of his pride and do the RIGHT thing, then he will earn back a great deal of respect.

If he cannot find the strength to do the RIGHT thing and let the PAP steal Punggol East, then he will destroy the legacy of his father.

And after Romney lost, all the Republican people started saying nasty things about him again.

As somebody pointed out in another posting multi-corner fight in a first past the post system will result in people voting tactically. Which means a lot of KJ supporters will end up voting WP anyway - that's what happened to Desmond Lim the last time around. SDP realised this the last time around. You have to be stronger than WP to keep your deposit. Anyway, if their respective parties get wiped out by this, then 3 GRCs will be freed up for the rest of the opposition parties to squabble over. Not a bad thing.

How did he not realise that he was going to get screwed?

 

[brocoli]

What are you talking about Keynesian and free market are totally different

Keynesians also believe in market but they are interventionist are heart...

SDP and WP are socialist, they do not believe in intervening in the market because they do not believe in any market..

you are really 1 dull cookie

 

[metalmickey]

Keynesians also believe in market but they are interventionist are heart...

SDP and WP are socialist, they do not believe in intervening in the market because they do not believe in any market..

you are really 1 dull cookie

To the extent that you intervene in the market, it is not free. The more you intervene, the more "socialist" it is. Social democracy and intervention are almost the same thing.

SDP and WP believe in the market as well, but one with more intervention. Keynesians believe in more intervention in the market. In essence, WP and SDP are more Keynesian than the PAP. If the government intervenes in the market heavily, it is called "socialist". If they control the economy completely, it is called "communist". Kenneth Jeyaretnam believes that the government should stay out of the market and he's actually libertarian.

 

[brocoli]

Keynesian economics is just another school of economics, they know that market work in general but cant be allowed to work unfetter... their intervention in on macroeconomic scale

SDP and WP are economics illiterate, their knee jerk reaction is to subsidy for every situation, every transaction... this is microeconomic scale...

 

[metalmickey]

Keynesian economics is just another school of economics, they know that market work in general but cant be allowed to work unfetter... their intervention in on macroeconomic scale

SDP and WP are economics illiterate, their knee jerk reaction is to subsidy for every situation, every transaction... this is microeconomic scale...

SDP or WP are not looking to abolish the ability of the market to set prices for everything. They still want the market to work. Subsidies are intervention. Keynesian and social democracy are roughly the same thing. If you employ a lot of people to work on a grand project, or you subsidise people when they buy something, the effect is roughly the same - you are transferring money from the government budget to people.

If the only form of intervention is the government setting monetary policy, ie changing currency exchange rates, or changing the interest rates, then this is monetary economic policy. It is the opposite of Keynesian because this is much weaker intervention.

 

[mei mei]

Have heard that KJ is in depression after the turnout at his Sunday rally. He was expecting to see thousands. It was a shock to him that so few turned up. This depression led him to miss the feedback session on Monday.

By asking KJ to withdraw, this is suggesting that KJ does matter to LLL campaign.

If KJ has influence, then WP should consider KJ's request for whatever cooperation.

If KJ is a complete write off in the BE, then there is no need to ask him to withdraw and KJ will lose his deposit.

The point is, here KJ is asked to give in, WP need to give KJ something in return to give in. In KJ's view, it is the right thing to contest in an election, in WP's view, it is the right thing to withdraw.

What's right or not right depends on which side of the coin you are in.

 

[ray_of_hope]

By asking KJ to withdraw, this is suggesting that KJ does matter to LLL campaign.

If KJ has influence, then WP should consider KJ's request for whatever cooperation.

If KJ is a complete write off in the BE, then there is no need to ask him to withdraw and KJ will lose his deposit.

The point is, here KJ is asked to give in, WP need to give KJ something in return to give in. In KJ's view, it is the right thing to contest in an election, in WP's view, it is the right thing to withdraw.

What's right or not right depends on which side of the coin you are in.

He should stay in. Let his campaign, such as it is, continue.
I look forwards to the results on 26 Jan.

 

[brocoli]

SDP or WP are not looking to abolish the ability of the market to set prices for everything. They still want the market to work. Subsidies are intervention. Keynesian and social democracy are roughly the same thing. If you employ a lot of people to work on a grand project, or you subsidise people when they buy something, the effect is roughly the same - you are transferring money from the government budget to people.

If the only form of intervention is the government setting monetary policy, ie changing currency exchange rates, or changing the interest rates, then this is monetary economic policy. It is the opposite of Keynesian because this is much weaker intervention.

i say again that Keynesian is a macroeconomic school of thought... it has nothing to do with social democracy or communism favoured by SDP and WP

 

[tanwahp]

In KJ's view, it is the right thing to contest in an election, in WP's view, it is the right thing to withdraw.

What's right or not right depends on which side of the coin you are in.

I don't think it's WP's view that anyone needs to withdraw.

Got this from somewhere. "Mr Low (Thia Khiang) also said the WP respects the right of all parties to contest any constituencies and that the party remains focused on supporting its candidate Lee Li Lian."

There is no right or wrong opinion but there are facts and errors.

 

[cass888]

Why should KJ withdraw and let the fella who ousted his father get stronger? $16k is nothing to him. Even if people do not attend his rallies, he knows that they watch his speech on Youtube and can see that he is superior to that Ah Lian who is depending on LTK to win the election for him.

Have heard that KJ is in depression after the turnout at his Sunday rally. He was expecting to see thousands. It was a shock to him that so few turned up. This depression led him to miss the feedback session on Monday.

 

[cass888]

Exactly. The WP is fucking worried that KJ and DL will erode their margin. It is only about winning this BE. If KJ manages to take 4-6% away from LLL, LLL will go into GE2016 without the stature of a 41% winner.

By asking KJ to withdraw, this is suggesting that KJ does matter to LLL campaign.

If KJ has influence, then WP should consider KJ's request for whatever cooperation.

If KJ is a complete write off in the BE, then there is no need to ask him to withdraw and KJ will lose his deposit.

The point is, here KJ is asked to give in, WP need to give KJ something in return to give in. In KJ's view, it is the right thing to contest in an election, in WP's view, it is the right thing to withdraw.

What's right or not right depends on which side of the coin you are in.

 

[brocoli]

I am not interested to debate whether keynes is a communist

here is KJ blog, http://sonofadud.com/

you ctrl F and see how many time he mention free market and capitalism...

his ideology is the exact opposite of SDP

 

[cass888]

He should stay in. Let his campaign, such as it is, continue.
I look forwards to the results on 26 Jan.

Koh Poh Koon - 50%
Lee Li Lian - 24%
Kenneth Jeyaratnam - 13%
Desmond Lim - 13%

That will give WP no moral basis for demanding PE in next election.

 

[ray_of_hope]

Koh Poh Koon - 50%
Lee Li Lian - 24%
Kenneth Jeyaratnam - 13%
Desmond Lim - 13%

That will give WP no moral basis for demanding PE in next election.

The test of the pudding is in its eating. Everyone will look forward to a fascinating election night.

 

[aurvandil]

I didn't start this thread for the benefit of WP.

I started this thread for the benefit of KJ. Other than withdrawing and endorsing LLL, there is no other viable strategy to play. At this point of the game, I don't think there is anything to suggest that KJ can win. Even loss of deposit is pretty much a given.

By asking KJ to withdraw, this is suggesting that KJ does matter to LLL campaign.

If KJ has influence, then WP should consider KJ's request for whatever cooperation.

If KJ is a complete write off in the BE, then there is no need to ask him to withdraw and KJ will lose his deposit.

The point is, here KJ is asked to give in, WP need to give KJ something in return to give in. In KJ's view, it is the right thing to contest in an election, in WP's view, it is the right thing to withdraw.

What's right or not right depends on which side of the coin you are in.

 

[cass888]

The one with the most to lose is Lee Li Lian.

PAP went into the BE because Palmer had to resign. PE is not like Hougang which has a strong personal loyalty to LTK - don't kid yourself that Hougang voted for YSL or PEH. If they lose percentage points, it is because of Palmer.

Desmond and KJ go in as dark horses. If they perform badly, it is expected. If they perform well, it will strengthen their hand.

Lee Lian on the other hand is being touted to win. If she gets anything less than 45% or worse less than 41% she is finished and WP will have to find a new candidate in 2016.

The test of the pudding is in its eating. Everyone will look forward to a fascinating election night.

 

[brocoli]

The one with the most to lose is Lee Li Lian.

PAP went into the BE because Palmer had to resign. PE is not like Hougang which has a strong personal loyalty to LTK - don't kid yourself that Hougang voted for YSL or PEH. If they lose percentage points, it is because of Palmer.

Desmond and KJ go in as dark horses. If they perform badly, it is expected. If they perform well, it will strengthen their hand.

Lee Lian on the other hand is being touted to win. If she gets anything less than 45% or worse less than 41% she is finished and WP will have to find a new candidate in 2016.

Lee Lian is not expeted to win.... but if they field GG or JJ. there will be that pressure

 

[cass888]

All KJ and DL need to do is chip away at Ah Lian's 41%. They can both afford to lose the deposit. Kenneth took the cash out of his wallet. That will strengthen their hand in 2016.

Lee Lian is not expeted to win.... but if they field GG or JJ. there will be that pressure

 

[metalmickey]

i say again that Keynesian is a macroeconomic school of thought... it has nothing to do with social democracy or communism favoured by SDP and WP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_socialism

"Sweden
The Swedish Socialists formed a government in 1932. They broke with economic orthodoxy during the depression and carried out extensive public works financed from government borrowing. They emphasised large-scale intervention and the high unemployment they had inherited was eliminated by 1938. Their success encouraged the adoption of Keynesian policies of deficit financing pursued by almost all Western countries after World War II."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

"Two aspects of Keynes's model has implications for policy:
First, there is the "Keynesian multiplier", first developed by Richard F. Kahn in 1931. Exogenous increases in spending, such as an increase in government outlays, increases total spending by a multiple of that increase. A government could stimulate a great deal of new production with a modest outlay if:

The people who receive this money then spend most on consumption goods and save the rest.

This extra spending allows businesses to hire more people and pay them, which in turn allows a further increase in consumer spending.

This process continues. At each step, the increase in spending is smaller than in the previous step, so that the multiplier process tapers off and allows the attainment of an equilibrium. This story is modified and moderated if we move beyond a "closed economy" and bring in the role of taxation: The rise in imports and tax payments at each step reduces the amount of induced consumer spending and the size of the multiplier effect.

Second, Keynes re-analyzed the effect of the interest rate on investment..."