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Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for him

Papsmearer

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Generous Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

Mark my words, LTK is biding his time. That's the smart thing to do. When the time comes, you'll see the tiger and heroes that Pinky was so sure they were not.

Bide time for fuck? Every minute that the PAP is in power is bad situation for singapore, and they have been there way too long already. U are in parliament, u have to whack them every time u can.
 

Papsmearer

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Generous Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

if the opposition is good, i will support them too.
however this WP isnt of that calibre, in fact i am very disappointed with their showing so far.

they better shape up or ship out!

A bad opposition is much better than no opposition, but it does not mean that we cannot hold them to a higher standard of performance.
 

tanwahp

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

The TS's actual personal stand on growth is not the issue here. The issue is you've made a fallacious assumption that the TS believes in 'growth that will benefit Singaporeans but crowd out ...' when he didn't utter a single word to that effect. All he said was: 'Under these circumstances, zero growth is better than PAP's kind of growth.' Which actually implies support for WP's stand!

Let me clarify that I did not quote him verbatim and nowhere did I state that I was quoting him word for word.

The understanding is that he had asked WP to talk about PAP's population growth and WP would not be able to provide an alternative version of growth after criticizing PAP's growth because they had stuck to zero growth. I stand corrected but that is my understanding.
 

tanwahp

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

Manager is PAP IB lah, not an oppo supporter.

Thank you for alerting me. At this point, I think the message is also helpful to opposition camp supporters.
 

yellowarse

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Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

I dun mind having a change of govt but the current crops of opposition are simply useless and dumb fuck

Which means you don't mind not having a change of govt as well?

What kind of a fucked up stand is that? You either believe PAP is doing a good job, and vote for them – or you think they're screwing up badly, and vote them out. Grow some balls, and make up your mind.

Come to think of it, your 'non-stand' makes sense if you're just trolling. Or part of the PAP IB.
 

Manager

Don't mess with me
Generous Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

i know what u mean, but do u want incompetence people to rule your country?
some of the PAP members are really wicked people, but are they incompetence? i dont think so.

i would rather have wicked,but competence and able people running my company, rather than have idiots running my company.



Such messages will only be counterproductive for your third parties, SDP, SF, NSP etc.

There are opposition voters who think WP is more credible than the rest or the only credible opposition around. This explains the 10% difference between WP's votes and the other opposition. The only reason why it is 10% and not more is because some pro-WP voters believe in voting any opposition to reduce PAP's monopoly across the nation.

However, if another group starting calling others to vote any opposition except WP which is "PAP stooge", "fake opposition" etc, will cause this group to retaliate by voting only for WP and spoil their vote for the rest. And guess which group has the bigger numbers.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

No, that's not what I understand of TS's position. Read his passage again. He didn't state anywhere that he believed in 'growth that will benefit Singaporeans but crowd Singapore out further'. What he simply said was, instead of restating and re-justifying at length WP's position on the white paper – of which we're all aware – he should have used the opportunity to whack Pinkie's self-satisfied concept of 'growth' and its horrendous ramifications.

Never allow your opponent to put you on the back foot, on the defensive.

When gay Loong puts it to you like this, don't micro manage the reply. Instead, reply in a manner that will resonate with the population. When gay loong says "we have continued to grow", you have to ask him "at what cost", and " who does this growth benefit.?" You should have informed him that the only growth that the PAP has be responsible for is the growth of 2 million new jobs to FTs. You should have told him the so called growth has not benefited the singaporean men and women on the street. And that this growth has come at the expense of riots, crowded public transportation, expensive housing, etc. Under this circumstances, zero growth is better than the PAP's kind of growth. why bother to talk simi lancheow population white paper with him?

You are right. That is my point. LTK should never be backing down on any issues at all. When Gay Loong challenged him with the fact that WP was silent on the growth, he should have challenged back with "so what? how has this growth benefited ordinary sinkies? It has benefitted foreigners for sure, but show how it benefited singapore. Riots benefit singapore"? These are the words that he should have chosen.
 
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tanwahp

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Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

i know what u mean, but do u want incompetence people to rule your country?
some of the PAP members are really wicked people, but are they incompetence? i dont think so.

i would rather have wicked,but competence and able people running my company, rather than have idiots running my company.

Wicked or not or competent or not is not based on simple labelling. We have to list out examples.

One very simple start - not knowing that by bringing in more people you will need more houses, buses and trains. That is not related to competency?
 

Manager

Don't mess with me
Generous Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

does it matter? Dont takes thing at face value and let other influence you.
i can tell you, i am neutral, i support whoever do a better job and can better benefit the country as a whole
and at the moment, the PAP is better than the WP.

i wont hesitate to screw the PAP if they are incompetence. Now do i still sound like a PAP IB?


Thank you for alerting me. At this point, I think the message is also helpful to opposition camp supporters.
 

tanwahp

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

does it matter? Dont takes thing at face value and let other influence you.

You can also try to influence me. People are free to say what they want.
 

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

The understanding is that he had asked WP to talk about PAP's population growth and WP would not be able to provide an alternative version of growth after criticizing PAP's growth because they had stuck to zero growth. I stand corrected but that is my understanding.

With such small oppo representation, the onus should always be on the incumbent to come out with the right policy, not on WP to provide an alternative. Therefore you whack the PAP's growth paradigm, and then say: with that kind of fucked-up growth, we'd be much better off with our party's zero growth proposal.

Parliament is always the right place for robust debate, and for putting pressure on the incumbent, not on the small token opposition party.
 

Manager

Don't mess with me
Generous Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

they were wrong. that is why people like rambutan and shortie wong went out
now ask yourself, was the WP competent as well?
if they were, they would have foresee the problem and stop the PAP from letting this happen.
fact is, they didnt see it happening too..

Wicked or not or competent or not is not based on simple labelling. We have to list out examples.

One very simple start - not knowing that by bringing in more people you will need more houses, buses and trains. That is not related to competency?
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

i know what u mean, but do u want incompetence people to rule your country?
some of the PAP members are really wicked people, but are they incompetence? i dont think so.

i would rather have wicked,but competence and able people running my company, rather than have idiots running my company.

The people running the country are not incompetent. The sooner you understand this, the better. The teachers are competent, the civil servants are competent, the bus drivers and train drivers are all competent. Every one is qualified. The incompetent people are the politicians. If you want an example, I will give you one. Take SMRT. For many years, the company was run very competently, I really have no issues with their service. And around the world, they are recognized as a role model for mass transit operators. SO what happened now, train delays, crowded trains, etc? They have gone thru CEOs, losing money, and now trying to sell parts off to the govt. U telling me SMRT engineers suddenly became incompetent? U telling me the employees of SMRT suddenly become shit? The answer lies at the top where the true incompetence lies, in the form of a CEO from a Duty Free shop business who knows nothing about train business, and than followed by another incompetent CEO that was a former Brigadier General.

And you use the same analogy for the PAP. Nothing wrong with the people of singapore, we are a good bunch. But we are led by shit politicians. ANyone is better than them right now.
 

ThePlen

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

this time i have to say its LHL 1 - LTK 0
 

Manager

Don't mess with me
Generous Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

i dont need to influence you unlike the others and i dont intent to.
i respect everyone who is willing to engage in a decent debate.
wrong or right, we shouldn't let our hate for a particular party blinded our senses.
if the party is incompetence, we say it
if the party is doing well, we admit it too. simple as that.

You can also try to influence me. People are free to say what they want.
 

Manager

Don't mess with me
Generous Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

you see what i mean when u let hatred blinded you? how could you defend yourself when u say anyone is better
is the WP better? can u and i with no experience in running the country do a better job? stop lying to yourself

i am all for a good opposition, not a lousy opposition.

And you use the same analogy for the PAP. Nothing wrong with the people of singapore, we are a good bunch. But we are led by shit politicians. ANyone is better than them right now.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

I should have included this quote from the debate:

Mr. Low: Elections - I think we are also rational. We don’t accuse the PAP of something we cannot substantiate or I know we’d get sued. I think we’re fair. Elections are elections and I thank the PM for noting that we can fight an election, I’m sure the PAP can too. You are the Government, you have been the governing party for 50 years and you’ve got (much more) talented people than the WP. How can you say we are tiger and we are something else in Parliament? I’m sure the PAP equally can be tiger or lions.

LTK should know that anything he says in Parliament is protected under parliamentary privilege. His party cannot be sued for what he might or might not accuse the PAP of during this debate. bAsed on this, he should have gone all out and whack them. What is he afraid off? And never ever admit that the other party has more talented people than you? How stupid can u be? He has already conceded the PAP is superior to him even before the fight. He should never even mention they have more talent than him as a joke or sarcastically. As for PAP talent, Tin Pei Ling is more talented than any of the WP candidates? Its bullshit. Right now, I can safely say that Roy Ngerng is more talented than 90% of the PAP MPs. LTK should never be praising his opponent.....................unless he is a fake oppo.
 

tanwahp

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

they were wrong. that is why people like rambutan and shortie wong went out
now ask yourself, was the WP competent as well?
if they were, they would have foresee the problem and stop the PAP from letting this happen.
fact is, they didnt see it happening too..

Every party from WP to SPP to SDP to NSP and their own PAP MPs like Tan Cheng Bock warned of the implications of bringing in so many people. This was back as far as in 2000. Didn't foresee? You are kidding.
 

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Sadly whole tone of the WP Low's debate is conciliatory, and I have some tips for

i wont hesitate to screw the PAP if they are incompetence. Now do i still sound like a PAP IB?

You do, and you are. I'll tell you why:

I haven't seen you screw the PAP. So it's safe to assume that you consider them competent. In which case just continue to vote PAP. It's a free world.

Why then come here and tell people to vote better oppo if you're a dyed-in-the-wool Pappy supporter? The Chinese call this 挑拨离间.
 
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